Please no name calling or posting of BS. I have a few questions and that is all. Here is you quote:

Personally, I have avidly supported Kerry, devoted hours of my time and hundreds of my hard earned dollars to his campaign since the end of last year... I think he has many major strong points.

* War experience, understands the common soldier - what makes you think Kerry understands the common soldier? I was one and I seriously doubt if Kerry understands them. Were you one? Then how can you say that - please provide specific examples.

* Environmental awareness - I'll give ya that

* Economic expertise that emphasizes prosperity for both businesses and consumers. - Please explain with specific examples. All I know is that he knows how to marry money. How can a man who does not even know what cars his immediate family owns have a head for business?

* Strong support of revamping a health care system that promotes health of all and not profits for a few. - now this is good news please explain his plan to me.

* Presidential stature and presence (uses Botox more effectively than any other canddidate .... hehehe) - I'll chalk this up as humor and believe it is just an opinion.

* Scientifically astute - he is, can you expound in specifics?

* Shows compassion and caring and a true sense of conviction. - umm I think this is a far reach. How can a man who has so much trouble making up his mind have a 'true sense of conviction'?

Please explain why his wife donates money to strong anti-US groups and how that will help America.

Please explain how Kerry relates to the common man at all. He definitely is not one of us.

Why did he so strongly support N Korea and coming to terms with them? Again no opinions just facts.

Here is your chance to sway the swing voters. Give it your best shot.

Please no name calling or posting of BS. I have a few questions and that is all. Here is you quote:

BassDude... Name calling is what people resort too when they have lost the debate... I try very hard to avoid namecalling of any BOTL event when they have resorted to such moronic tactics against me. However, name calling of external groups is common and used all the time, especially by right wing radio jocks (Ever listen to Michael Savage.... Rush is full of names)


Personally, I have avidly supported Kerry, devoted hours of my time and hundreds of my hard earned dollars to his campaign since the end of last year... I think he has many major strong points.

* War experience, understands the common soldier -

what makes you think Kerry understands the common soldier?

I was one and I seriously doubt if Kerry understands them. Were you one? Then how can you say that - please provide specific examples.

BassDude. Seems like you've already made your mind up here. So here is my opinion. And while I commend you for your service to this country, I am sick and tired of the arrogance of the question posed on my military service as a pretext for establishing that your opinion may be more qualified. Thats a load of hogwash. My opinion is valid as yours and I don't need respond to your question of my military service here to justify my opinion to you.

I base my opinion on a dozens of hours of observation, mostlyu on CSpan programming that covered Kerry on the campaign trail in one on one conversations with veterans and soldiers. I have also seen this interaction in person... How much of that have you personally exposed yourself too?? The connections I observed between Kerry and the vetes and active duty soldiers were obviously genuine and supporting to anyone watching these events.

Bassdude, how much Cspan do you watch on a weekly basis?? I recommend it seriously. Very little spin and an excellent and fairly impartial source for a lot of political events.

* Environmental awareness - I'll give ya that

* Economic expertise that emphasizes prosperity for both businesses and consumers. - Please explain with specific examples. All I know is that he knows how to marry money. How can a man who does not even know what cars his immediate family owns have a head for business?

BassDude Be honest.... If you had a chance to marry a gal worth a few hundred million dollars and their was mutual affection and a healthy relationship with that woman would you say no because of the money... to make an issue on Kerry marrying rich is pretty petty... So is the car thing. If you are truly on the fence making a decision are you going to make them on the basis of petty items that have nothing to do with how effective the candidate would function as a president. (Do I really think you are sincere about being on the fence?? Hmmm based on your questions.....) If so I can provide a ton of petty arguements why you should be weary of Bush too. You could start with Bush going AWOL...(But you don't probably believe sources that have dug out the facts on that)

In all seriousness, the current administration does little to provide major incentives for enterprise. They turned surpluses into nosebleed deficits that you and your kids (do you have any??) are going to be paying for for a long time. Bushes cronies and fiscal policy does do a lot to reward wealth concentrating this wealth in fewer and fewer entities than any time since our country was almost ruined by the robber barons of the late 19th century.

Kerry's economic focus emphasizes business productivity (lowering corporate tax rates) and consumer spending (shifting tax burdens to those who can afford it). This is what has been done successfully in the past to pull us out of the economic malaise that GW's Dad got us into 13 years ago.

* Strong support of revamping a health care system that promotes health of all and not profits for a few. - now this is good news please explain his plan to me.

www.johnkerry.com ... check it out for yourself

* Presidential stature and presence (uses Botox more effectively than any other canddidate .... hehehe) - I'll chalk this up as humor and believe it is just an opinion.

* Scientifically astute - he is, can you expound in specifics?

One example...He knows the difference between Wild Salmon and a Hatchery Salmon. That means a lot here in the west coast. Honestly can George Bush even read??

* Shows compassion and caring and a true sense of conviction. - umm I think this is a far reach. How can a man who has so much trouble making up his mind have a 'true sense of conviction'?

Do you really buy into the figment of people's imagination that 120 million dollars worth of Bush campaign television sound bites have help created. If you really dig a little and get past the opposition propaganda you'll find that Kerry is deliberative, he thinks about what he does. He's willing to make a change when circumstances change and demand new conclusions. He's not the stubborn, self-rightous infallible, arrogant, "I'm always right" kind of pseudo leader we have now. The arrogance of someone who who can never apologize or admit a mistake when one is obviously made sickens me, and George Bush is that in spades.

Kerry has shown me geniune humility every time I've hear him talk. Have you ever met the man?....... But 120 million in sound bites can do a lot to damage a mans reputation... If you really think the flip-flop thing is true, and you are representative of the publics perception then we live in a country where votes don't matter and dollars do... Thats not the USA I was born in but perhaps you don't mind democracy being destroyed right infront of your eyes. Oh and those new voting machines made by the guy who will do everything in his powever to support Bush.... (So let's account for 50,000,000 presidential votes with these Diebold machines...who needs a paper trail, democracy doesn't matter..... just set a random number of Kerry votes to register for Bush...Making software do that is easy!!!

Please explain why his wife donates money to strong anti-US groups and how that will help America.
Bassdude... those are serious assertions... where are your sources and substantiation here....

Of course you know about the connection between the Bushes and the Saudi royal family including members of the Bin Laden family and we know where lot of those Saudi Royal family donations go.... Wahabi schools teaching the children of Islam to hate Americans and many terrorist organizations including Al Queda.
Why were the Bin Laden's flown out of the US the day after 9/11 before the FBI could interrogate them???

Please explain how Kerry relates to the common man at all. He definitely is not one of us.

Is Bush, Is Cheney, Is Rumsfeld...

Colin Powell... maybe but doubtful he will be there in a Bust 2nd term if that happens. Kerry and I have much more in common that Bush and I will ever have. And the man has proven that he at least cares about the common man. I am pretty sure Bush could care a less about anyone who isn't a high ranking coprporate executive or in the top 1 percent of wealth in the country and his fiscal policies are complete proof of that.


Why did he so strongly support N Korea and coming to terms with them? Again no opinions just facts.


Bassdude You give me the source of your assertions here and then I'll consider a response.... You demand no opinions just fact but your question is based on an assertion based on an opinion in the first place which you,sir haven't had the decency to reveal....


Here is your chance to sway the swing voters. Give it your best shot.
You be honest with me.....Bassdude the tone of your questsions show me that you seem to buy into the right propaganda way too much to be what I would consider a swing voter....

But you do have a choice and in my opinion you can support a cleverly concealed form of faschism (Bush) or Democracy (Kerry). The Republican Party option that I used to support 20-30 years ago is gone..... All you got is lock-step faschism. For example in our state (WA), Republican candidates who aren't hand picked and endorsed by the party organization do not get an opportunity to speak at the congrssional and state level caucuses here unless they sign a statement that they can't disagree with the endorsed candidate on any issue. We have Republican primary races here where non-endorsed challengers are pretty much being told to shut up. I'd be pretty scared about that.

Well I've taken a lot of my time responding to you Bassdude and my full response was cut off by limitations in the size we are allowed to post.... You titled this a coupla questions but you posed much more than a couple.

I really don't expect to change peoples opinions on this board with my posts...... But I do think we ought to stand for a few standards here.

* State your sources
* No direct name calling of any BOTL
* When you post a cut and paste from another website be honest about that and even if it reflects your opinion, state whose opinion it really is. Usually I have a lot more respect for the genuine opinions of those I interact with here on this board than the opinions cut and pasted from propaganda websites.
* Disagreements happen... but that doesn't meam they can't be respectful. Personally I've come to respect some of my neo-con BOTL like Sylance, even Robby, because they have shown civility......
* When in doubt show a sense of humor....This really helps a lot....

That's all I care about... My efforts in helping the Kerry campaign is pretty much focused on getting those leaning toward supporting Kerry to actually get out to the polls to place their vote. What I post here on Cbid is with no expectation of changing peoples minds.

Yo dbguru: Your responses to bassdudes questions are a joke. He did not ask you about Bush. When you could not answer the kerry questions you responded by puting Bush down trying to make kerry look good. That is the same thing you accused Conservatives of doing to kerry in your other posts. Double talk and flip floppin, you would make a good liberal candidate, ever think of running for office. JonR

From dbguru: "* No direct name calling of any BOTL
* When you post a cut and paste from another website be honest about that and even if it reflects your opinion, state whose opinion it really is. Usually I have a lot more respect for the genuine opinions of those I interact with here on this board than the opinions cut and pasted from propaganda websites."

The irony is overwhelming....

dbguru "Thats a load of hogwash".

Nope I did that on the other post...but thanks anyways...

Hiya DB ;0)~~~

Hog

Dbguru,

You dodged most of Bassdude's questions and I give you good political marks for this.

However, you completely discredit yourself when you crank out something like "in my opinion you can support a cleverly concealed form of fascism (Bush) or Democracy (Kerry). The Republican Party option that I used to support 20-30 years ago is gone..... All you got is lock-step fascism." You've been pretty quick to play the Nazi card lately on anyone opposed to your opinions or your candidate's opinions. That reflects poorly on the presidential candidate that you claim to financially support. I expect better behavior from a financial supporter of Kerry.

I find it quite disturbing to see a hard line Kerry supporter screaming "Nazi" and "fascist" as freely as you do. One can only hope that you are a bad example of the Kerry supporters and not the mainstream.

In terms of your board stadards that you are suggesting, under the policy of no direct name calling of any BOTL, where exactly does "Nazi" or "Fascist" fit in and would "you can support a cleverly concealed form of fascism (Bush)" be considered indirect name calling and therefore allowed since it is not direct or would it be a violation?

I enjoyed this one "Kerry's economic focus emphasizes business productivity (lowering corporate tax rates) and consumer spending (shifting tax burdens to those who can afford it). This is what has been done successfully in the past to pull us out of the economic malaise that GW's Dad got us into 13 years ago."

The last time I checked, Bush 41 had a DEMOCRAN'T house and a DEMOCRAN'T senate. Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t they actually have to pass the budget? Aren’t they responsible for fiscal policy? The president has more power as commander in chief, but they’re trying to subvert that more and more.

Is the assertion here that Bush is anti-corporation and Kerry is pro-corporation? If so, that’s pretty laughable! I didn’t see much in the way of compelling arguments listed and I read carefully. It looked a lot like the OJ trial to me… Especially the part about how he flip-flops on every issue because he’s not proud. BULL$HIT! He flip flops because he has no core! He changes his views with the prevailing winds. His most recent flip-flop is on the national oil reserves. He said when Clinton was in office that it was a bad idea to open them up because it would do little if anything to help, but now he stands in favor of this move. Amazing…

You guys a so brainwashed....

Are so.....BRAINWASHED!!!!
These responses make me laugh.....

Hey..... where's Bassdude on this.....
Who asked you guys to chime in anyway.....

As far as the Nazi thing is concerned..... There are so many connections, comparisons, facts and questions raised on the subject in the national scene, how can you not take notice of that if you are an open minded liberal. The Bush family has a deep historicical multigenerational affinity and relationship with Nazi ideas and enterprise. Much has been written on the subject. These links are but a small sample. Many books and articles go deeply into the subject.

http://www.hereinreality.com/familyvalues.html 
http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/randy/swas5.htm 
http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/bushies.htm 
http://www.twf.org/News/Y2003/1010-BushNazi.html 
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1006-08.htm 

Here are some links to lots very troubling stuff about GWB

http://www.makethemaccountable.com/misc/BushQuestions.htm 

See my neo-conservative friends, I know it is beyond you to take note of these issues and you'll blinders may be surgically attached to you. (For that you have my deepest sympathy)

George Bush's leadership patterns.. the secrecy, the disdain for our constitution and our foreign treaties is so much closer to the way Hitler operated than any president in history. You may want to cover your ears and scream over what I'm saying but it doesn't change the absolute truth of the matter.

http://www.thousandreasons.org/opinion/010604.html )

Hitler slaughtered six million. George Bush only killed nine thousand or so in Iraq and many fewer in Afghanistan. Hardly a fair comparison.

Hitler rounded up and killed homosexuals. George Bush only denies them the right to marry. Again, no comparison.

Hitler rounded up and killed those with physical or mental infirmities. George Bush only cut their medical benefits. No comparison.

Hitler invaded his neighbors and overthrew their governments. George Bush only invaded and overthrew the governments of two countries, and they were not neighbors. No comparison.

Adolph Hitler believed in a "master race." George Bush believes in a master religion. No comparison.

Adolph Hitler was an eloquent and persuasive madman. George Bush is neither eloquent nor persuasive. No comparison

Adolph Hitler's government was in tight control of its citizens. George Bush has only limited our right to privacy, free speech, and access to lawyers.

Adolph Hitler demonized Jews. George Bush only demonized Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein (with the leaders of Syria, Iran, and North Korea held in abeyance). No comparison.

All I can I can see is comments from a peanut gallery inspired by the most radical extremist right wing neo-conservative thinking this country has to offer and that's the opinion I'm still entitled to state. Until the leaders you support complete their probable intention of trashing the first amendment of our US Constitution.

Really guys.... it wasn't necessary to chime in on BassDudes behalf.... Your entitled to post but ..... I thought this thread was pretty much between me and him. At least thats the way he initiated it. But do you really respect his request for just my response......NO ....no respect for a fellow BOTL.... hmmmmm.

Oh.. and Welcome back Hog!!! Great to see you!!!

Dbguru,

WOW! I guess it really is all about stopping the Nazis. I thought you were just flying off at the handle but now I realize it is for real.

Just remember your rule:

"No direct name calling of any BOTL"

Robby
in repsponse to
----------------------------------------------------
Is the assertion here that Bush is anti-corporation and Kerry is pro-corporation? If so, that’s pretty laughable! I didn’t see much in the way of compelling arguments listed and I read carefully. It looked a lot like the OJ trial to me… Especially the part about how he flip-flops on every issue because he’s not proud. BULL$HIT! He flip flops because he has no core! He changes his views with the prevailing winds.
----------------------------------------------------
Respectfully you seem to respect stubborness and I respect a guy who thinks on his feet.

The issue on opening up the oil reserve is a matter of changing circumstance (do you realy like $2.50 a gallon?).

In my opinion Bush's fiscal policies is pro wealth preservation. This may indirectly help business consider capital and human resource expenditures at those businesses options. But does everyone receiving tax breaks necessarily use that additional wealth to hire someone or buy business/indutrial machinery. Much of these tax breaks is money diverted away from commerce.

Yes there is a fundamental difference on ecomomic policy between the Dems and the GOP. Do you build business by giving them more money to invest(GOP)...or more customers(Dems) What excites me about Kerry is that I think he buys into both sides of the arguement. OK the GOP sound bites trash that is bad but I think its good. What Kerry is trying to do is recognize that you need policies which put a fine focus on business investment to build commerce, particularly small to mid size business without general sledge-hammer policies which concentrate weatlth in hands who don't necesarily make the commitment to use additional wealth for business capital and human resource expenditure. It seems to me that the Dems just have a much better sense of economic policy right now... Its not just my opinion.

To simply use lables of who is pro-corporation and who is anti-corporation is really an oversimplication that doesn't drill down to facts, Robby. I know you probably look into these things a bit deeper.

Hockey..
Do you consider my reference to my neo-conservative BOTL as Neo-cons an example of name calling??
C'mon there is nothing derogatory about that
You would have no problem calling me a liberal...
(or if you wish neo-lib....as has been used. I find nothing offensive with that)

There is a difference between direct name calling like
"JoeBOTL the ranting boogerbrain" attaching a label to a group like
"the stupid boogerbrain liberals". Feel free to substitute in this example.

Last night I listened to Laura Ingraham, a true neo-con talk show host for about an hour. I counted 28 derogatory references using belittling lables to individuals whose political views she didn't agree with. No facts, no respectful points of disagreement, just blatant namecalling. I hear so much namecalling on Rush and Mike Savage's show....And I know you Neo-cons are so inspired by listening to this stuff too. When it spills over onto this board in reference to a BOTL...then I have an issue with that.

Be specific Hockey-Dad... were do you think I cross the line???

I'll have to read these later. At a glance it looks like a lot of 'political'type responses not what I was looking for. I was looking for an understanding of what you see in Kerry and how you could substantiate your post.

The name calling reference was to all who will post on the thread and not directed at an individual.

I do not watch much TV and have not seen many of these sound bites. I also do not listen to any of the talk shows you referenced. I find it quite amusing that you feel the conservatives are brainwashed. Perhaps the libs are??

I vote for who I feel is the best candidate and the one who most mirrors my viewpoint period. I wish there was an unbiased source that would only publish facts on all candidates.

Try CSpan

Very little editorializing
Kind of boring but very un-edited and un-biased in its coverage of events.

DB

Ok dbguru, I know I'm probably going to get in trouble with you here (your quote: "Who asked you guys to chime in anyway..... "), but I just have to say I am THOROUGHLY entertained by this thread. Keep typing, please!

Feel free to read into my comments any way you feel you need to.

These responses are too long. They mess with my ADD.

Can we just go back to "i'm right, you are wrong" and "dems/reps suck"????