mav2112
  • mav2112
  • Connoisseur Topic Starter
22 years ago
Hi guys, fairly new to cbid, but have been haveing a blast trying all kinds of new 5packs. My biggest problem seems to be humidor control. How do I handle temperature variances? How do I hold a temp? I have finally broke down and bought a digital hygrometer and have been able to keep both humidors pretty close to 65, but living in Wisconsin doesn't help room temperatures stay very constant, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
P.S. If i ever find Fonseca Triangulars on Cbid I'm in a world of hurt but my ups guy will get a good workout!!
Da-Glyde
22 years ago
mav2112,

First off welcome, temp really isnt that important as RH....As long as you dont get really high temps I wouldnt worry...

GIG'em
Sylance
22 years ago


TEMP RELATIVE HUMIDITY
_________________________
66 80.33%

67 77.58%

68 74.93%

69 72.37%

70 70.00%

71 67.61%

72 65.39%

73 63.19%

74 61.13%

75 59.10%

76 57.17%
RICKAMAVEN
22 years ago
5.0a The "Variable Humidity Myth...

Many self-proclaimed "authorities" have been making a serious mistake of confusing moisture content with relative humidity lately. At least one well-known Cigar distributor has added strength to this legend by distributing a table recommendinging different relative humidities at different temperatures. Don't fall for this "urban legend"! Cigars should be kept at 70% RH REGARDLESS of temperature or you WILL ruin them...

The modern myth of varying humidity with temperature is based on an entirely false premise. Cigars don't care about absolute moisture content. They need just enough moisture to keep the tobacco pliable, but not so much to swell it. This occurs at 70-73% REGARDLESS of temperature.

Tobacco should be kept at a relative humidity which just keeps the leaves pliable without swelling them. Since that pliability is based on the interaction of the cellular membranes with the air surrounding them, *relative humidity*, not absolute moisture content is what's important. This isn't chemistry, it's mechanics - on a cellular level. Ideally, the correct point is 70-73% regardless of temperature. At 70% relative humidity (a measure which by definition is independent of temperature) cigar leaves become pliable without swelling. at 75% or higher, the cells begin to swell. at 68% or lower, they can become brittle. These points are regardless of the ambient temperature or the absolute moisture content.

Does it make any sense to a rational person to keep their cigars at close to 100% humidity at 60 degrees? Anyone living in cold climates can attest to the fact that at 60 deg, their cigars are perfect at 70%, and (as they would at any temperature) their cigars are prone to mold and swelling at humidities above 80%. Those living in the tropics will tell you the same thing - their cigars MUST be kept at 70% humidity at storage temperatures of 80 degrees. According to "the table", those cigars should be at 50% humidity? I'll tell you what... If the humidity drops below 68%, your cigars will become dry and crack - I couldn't even imagine how badly dried out they'd be at 50%!

Try it yourself. The "logic" of varying RH with temp falls apart in the real world. Moisture content is NOT why we keep cigars at 70% humidity...

Here's a more scientific explanation debunking the myth of varying humidity from David E. Patton, Ph.D. at the Department of Physiology, UCLA School of Medicine...

"There has been extensive discussion on A.S.C. concerning the effects of temperature on humidity and its application to proper cigar storage. Much of the confusion concerning these concepts comes from not understanding what is happening at the molecular level. My goal is to explain some of the relevant concepts and then to put the concepts together in such a way as to give an intuitive understanding of how they relate to cigar storage.
Cigars are made from tobacco leaves. Tobacco leaves (like most plant material) consist primarily of carbohydrates and proteins. Protein and carbohydrate molecules contain many binding sites for water molecules. A certain proportion of the water binding sites need to be occupied by water molecules in order for the tobacco leaves to be adequately pliable, to burn properly and to age properly. So when we think about humidity as it relates to cigar storage, the most relavent factor to consider is: are the correct proportion of water binding sites occupied? Water molecules bind to other molecules via hydrogen bonds. Van der Waals interactions also participate. This applies to water bound to protein and carbohydrate molecules (e.g. tobacco leaves) or to other water molecules (e.g. liquid water). For the purposes of this discussion, water bound to tobacco leaves will be treated like liquid water.

Temperature is the main factor determining whether a water molecule will be more likely to be in either the gas or liquid (or bound) phases. This is because at higher temperatures, water molecules (like any other molecule) will have more kinetic energy. The more kinetic energy a molecule has, the higher its probability of being in the gas phase. This is because it will have sufficient kinetic energy to break out of the hydrogen bonds and Van der Waals interactions that would otherwise keep it bound. At lower temperatures molecules have less kinetic energy so when they collide with a carbohydrate molecule, for example, its kinetic energy is insuficient to break away from it. The important point here is that at higher temperatures, a water molecule is more likely to be in the gas phase and less likely to be bound. At lower temperatures a water molecule is more likely to be bound and less likely to be in the gas phase.

Another point that needs to be explained here is the concept of relative humidity. Simply stated, relative humidity is the ratio of the concentration of water in the gas phase divided by the maximal concentration of water the air can hold (the saturating concentration) at a given temperature. Air holds more water at higher temperatures. Therefore, if you hold the relative humidity constant and increase the temperature, the concentration of water molecules in the gas phase will increase. If you think about this superficially you may think that because the concentration of water molecules increases in the gas phase as you increase the temperature (holding relative humidity constant)that your cigars will become over-humidified. This is WRONG. Remember, as you increase the temperature, the water molecules are less likely to be bound to the tobacco and more likely to be in the gas phase. Thus, to keep the same proportion of water binding sites in the tobacco occupied by water molecules, the concentration of water molecules in the gas phase must be increased when temperature is increased."

Again, cigars should be stored at 70 - 73% relative humidity, regardless of temperature. Period.
Sylance
22 years ago
Rick, thanks for the info, but my real world experience doesn't match with what you just posted.

I have a digital hydrometer with a thermometer. I’ve salt calibrated it several times to be sure it was accurate. During the summer I was running exactly 70% humidity, but the temperature was around 74 - 75 degrees. Within 3 months I had mold on my cigars. I lowered it to 65% humidity and now my cigars are happy… no mold and smoke great. So until my experience changes… I’ll stick with my real world results.
428cj
22 years ago
"If the humidity drops below 68%, your cigars will become dry and crack"---- Wrong!

I've been keeping mine around 65%, some for over two years now, and they're quite happy. No cracking, falling apart, turning into dust... Some of my cigars are kept even lower, between 62-64% with the same great results.

Having them around 70% more often than not gives me draw and burn problems and leads to some pronounced bitterness. It's all a matter of personal preference, but mine are all fine around 65% (I have two large 'real' humidors and seven tupperware humidors, all with the same results).

As to the temp issue, for the most part mine are around 70 degrees. In the Summer though they can get as warm as 73-74 at times. They all still smoke and taste great.
Da-Glyde
22 years ago
I keep many cigars in lower RH perdomos love it!!

GIG'em,

SteveS
22 years ago
I don't get to stressed about minimal temp variances ... 70 is ideal, but a few degrees one way or the other just flat doesn't matter ...

I stopped trying to achieve 70% RH and went for 65% instead and have been FAR happier ... tight draws and burn problems almost NEVER exist, cigars are a bit more firm and even taste smoother ...
redneck1
22 years ago
To control temperature variances I store my coolerdor in the basement where the temp stays constant.

A coolerdor won't allow drastic changes even when stored above the basement.

Hope thats what you were asking.
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