"I don't believe in Santa Claus, but I'm not going to sue somebody for singing a Ho-Ho-Ho song in December. I don't agree with Darwin, but I didn't go out and hire a lawyer when my high school teacher taught his theory of evolution. Life, liberty or your pursuit of
happiness will not be endangered because someone says a 30-second prayer before a football game. So what's the big deal?
It's not like somebody is up there reading the entire book of Acts. They're just talking to a God they believe in and asking him to grant safety to the players on the field and the fans going home from the
game. "But it's a Christian prayer," some will argue. Yes, and this is the United States of America, a country founded on Christian principles. According to our very own phone book, Christian churches outnumber all others better than 200-to-1. So what would you expect-somebody chanting Hare Krishna? If I went to a football game in Jerusalem, I would expect to hear a Jewish prayer. If I went to a soccer game in Baghdad, I would expect to hear a Muslim prayer. If I went to a ping pong match in China, I would expect to hear someone pray to Buddha. And I wouldn't be offended. It wouldn't bother me one bit. When in Rome...
"But what about the atheists?" is another argument.
What about them? Nobody is asking them to be baptized. We're not going to pass the collection plate. Just humor us for 30 seconds..
If that's asking too much, bring a Walkman or a pair of ear plugs. Go to the bathroom. Visit the concession stand. Call your lawyer Unfortunately, one or two will make that call. One or two will tell thousands what they can and cannot do. I don't think a short prayer at a football game is going to shake the world's foundations. Christians are just sick and tired of turning the other cheek while our courts strip us of all our rights. Our parents and grandparents taught us to pray before eating, to pray
before we go to sleep.
Our Bible tells us to pray without ceasing. Now a handful of people and their lawyers are telling us to cease praying. God, help us. And if that last sentence offends you, well..........just sue me.
The silent majority has been silent too long. It's time we let that one or two who scream loud enough to be heard, that the vast majority don't care what they want...it is time the majority rules!
It's time we tell them, you don't have to pray. You don't have to say the pledge of allegiance, you don't have to believe in God or attend services that honor Him. That is your right, and we will honor your right...but by golly, you are no longer going to take
our rights away ... we are fighting back...and we WILL WIN! God bless us one and all, especially those who denounce Him...God bless America, despite all her faults, she is still the greatest nation of all.....God bless our service men who are fighting to protect our right to pray and worship God...
May 2005 be the year the silent majority is heard and we put God back as the foundation of our families and institutions.
Keep looking up......In God WE Trust.

and says it well

..............what more can be said?...............

funny we posted a minute apart

Hey bassdude I agree with you 100% we need to stop worring about what might offend the few and bring GOD back into our lives, in school,games, and in our goverment- but on other hand even though that line did not offend me can I still sue you for a Anejo #55,lol.

Great post bassdude! I'm behind you 100% on this one.

Bass,
I agree with ya 100%. I also think it to be funny that we Christians can than argue amoung ourselves about which denomination is best. Think about it, the baptist have something like 60 different types of baptist. then there are at least 10 different groups owing to John Wesley as their founder/leader and so on and so on.

All I can say is God has a great sense of humor

guess who doesn't agree.

if you want to pray, do it before you come into a public forum. you are just trying to show how pious you are with public prayer. what wonderful religious people you are.

let's have a christian prayer right after we have a public bris. or how about a public bar mistzva.

when someone keeps telling me how good, honest and true he is, i suspect he is full of baloney.

God Bless You RICKAMAVEN!!!!
All Along I have not had you in my prayers to show/tell you how good I am... one of these days with you in my prayers I do believe the lightbulb will come on and you'll See how Great God Is!!! I don't even show my prayers in this public forum and 98% of the time I'm in private when I pray or as I call it one on one with God!!!
when I do make it into heaven, I'll know my battle scars from being here on earth in the flesh will be gone.. the only signs of my presense here on earth will be the dust trials and memories of those who I've touched while I went through my trials... but for now I can say... God Bless You Rick and all the rest!!!

Great Post Bass!!!!

Hog

God Bless You RICKAMAVEN!!!!
All Along I have not had you in my prayers to show/tell you how good I am... one of these days with you in my prayers I do believe the lightbulb will come on and you'll See how Great God Is!!! I don't even show my prayers in this public forum and 98% of the time I'm in private when I pray or as I call it one on one with God!!!
when I do make it into heaven, I'll know my battle scars from being here on earth in the flesh will be gone.. the only signs of my presense here on earth will be the dust trials and memories of those who I've touched while I went through my trials... but for now I can say... God Bless You Rick and all the rest!!!

Great Post Bass!!!!

Hog

In which God do WE trust? Last I heard there were over 10,000 different religions in America and the majority (of types not believers) were non-christian.

"Let us pray. Chapter 12, in the book of Zoroastrian..."

i like this post. well done, bass.

blacky

"History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religiuos leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."

Thomas Jefferson, letter to Alexander von Humboldt
December 6, 1813.

I think I'd rather agree with the writer of the Declaration of Independence and U.S. Constitution than some pinhead.

MANDATORY. That's the key in this issue, I think.

It should be an option. If you want to do it, go ahead. If not, don't. But don't say that I CAN'T do it, or I HAVE TO do it.

By the way, bassdude, Harvey's statement that our country was founded on Christian priciples is pure bulls**t.

http://www.theology.edu/journal/volume2/ushistor.htm 

Blister... your going to toss up someone's? Theology term paper notes on our founding fathers seperation of church and State and then claim that Bass's thread on what Paul Harvey above had to say was/is Bullsh!t?? LMAO...

why don't you do yourself a favor and read exactly what our founding fathers actually said in their writings in the beginning of laying down the foundations this very nation was born on... and then come back with the BS comment if you dare!!!!

the works of Abraham Lincoln, although he was not one of our founding fathers to this land he was still a major contributor of it's foundations...
http://home.att.net/~rjnorton/Lincoln78.html 

"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it."

Declaration of Independence
http://www.americanrevolution.com/DeclarationofIndependence.htm 

Founding Fathers:
http://www.usconstitution.com/FoundingFathers.htm 
Longevity and Family Life
In terms of religious affiliation, the men mirrored the overwhelmingly Protestant character of American religious life at the time and were members of various denominations. Only two, Carroll and Fitzsimons, were Roman Catholics.

Now in terms of your friends or whoevers term paper on the founding fathers is/were... Only 1 will ever know the truth to our Founding Fathers, and to Judge them by any means is not our right to do so... one can argue that something compelled our founding fathers to use God and Creator in many of their writings in their times, I myself would say they very much strong believers in God and something/one had to bring them to this point?

Hog

as jewish people say

"from your mouth to god's ears."

if heaven exists, you will be welcomed.

Blister, take Hog's advice.

Hog,
The link I referenced was written by R.P. Nettlehorst. He's a baptist professor of theology and biblical languages.
Although you may not want to believe it, most of our founding fathers were Deists. Deism was based on reason and nature. They believed there was a God that essentially created the world and sat back and watched the wonder of nature take over. Some people referred to this God as the clock winder, who created the world and watched it go by. We're talking about guy's like Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Adams, Franklin, Paine.

You are of course correct about Thomas Fitzsimons and Charles Carroll. Here in Philadelphia, Fitzsimons has a pretty good rep. He was a pure patriot and is buried in St Mary's Catholic Church and we have a middle school named after him. As a practicing Catholic, he's a pretty good guy for me to look up to.

As far as Honest Abe is concerned, I believe he was our greatest president. However, Lincoln was not involved in the formation of our Declaration of Independence nor was he involved in the formation of our U.S. Constitution.

It's pretty clear these wisest of men wished their new government to be separate from any theocracy.

Next time I'm at 5th & Arch, I'll throw a penny on Ben Franklin's grave for you and I'll think about what he so wisely wrote:

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches"
Joe

well said Rick, but you also have to beleive that!!!

Blister some more on your/whoevers theoligy termpaper
the very beginning of it notes:
The men who lead the United States in its revolution against England, who wrote the Declaration of Independence and put together the Constitution were not Christians by any stretch of the imagination.

this is a rebuttle found here:
http://www.usconstitution.com/ThomasJefferson.htm 
Personal Attacks on Jefferson
Unlike Thomas Paine, who attacked all sects, Jefferson attacked none, and he contributed to many churches, but he was distinctly anticlerical and was as opposed to absolutism in priests and presbyters as in kings. In a private letter to Dr. Benjamin Rush in 1800, he said: "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." That assertion is properly recognized as one of his most characteristic.

It also goes on to read:
In another strictly private communication to Dr. Rush, made in his first term as president, Jefferson revealed his own religious opinions. He believed in God and immortality and was a Unitarian in theology, though he rarely used the term. Comparing the ethical teachings of Jesus with those of the ancient philosophers and the Jews, he expressed the highest appreciation of the former. He began at this time, and finished in old age, a compilation of extracts from the Gospels in English, Greek, Latin, and French. He carefully excluded miracles from the compilation. Entitled The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, it remained unpublished until the 20th century. While opposed to what he regarded as the corruptions of Christianity, he described himself as a Christian, and he undoubtedly sought to follow the ethical precepts of Jesus.

I do not believe our Founding Fathers were not Christians, but who's place is it to tell anyone they must be in church or be packing their bibles or even shoving their beliefs down someone else's throat?

at the same time what rights are given to the non believers to be trying to remove any type of Christianity from the foundations of this Nation? there will be only one Judge and one Judgement to man.. and that will be on Gods Time.. it is up to man to be ready for it!!!!

Hog

good stuff here.

http://www.cigarbid.com/auction/forum/forum.cfm?action=list&forumID=7&messageDisplay=0000000031202