RICKAMAVEN
Wednesday, March 23, 2005 7:31:00 AM
i am open to learn. teach me.

what did john waye do that would be considered heroic and get a medal from the government as being a hero or doing something for his country, i'm not sure what the medal was called and what it was for.

i really don't know.

Charlie
Wednesday, March 23, 2005 7:49:00 AM
Then why don't you go and do some of your so called "research" on the matter and report back to us on your findings!

I have too much going on in my life to worry about your views on John Wayne!

Charlie

usahog
Wednesday, March 23, 2005 8:23:00 AM
LMAO with Charlie on this one.... He's right Rick why not let your fingers do the walking (Google Search) it's a snap!!! LMAO!!!!!!!!

Hog

EI
  • EI
  • Herf-A-Holic
Wednesday, March 23, 2005 8:57:00 AM
thats cuz he wont find it on moveon.org
RICKAMAVEN
Wednesday, March 23, 2005 10:59:00 AM
guys i have done some research and if i had come up with something i wouldn't have asked the question that charlie dismissed and you others avoided.

now i'll have to continue with my original thinking about the actor until i learn something to change my mind.

incidently i saw a doumentry with hime in it discussing herding cows from one place to another and he said "good thing they are not anguses, we would have to bus them."

that is a racist remark however subtle. it tells me more about the man then "the sands of iwo jima."

lukin
Wednesday, March 23, 2005 11:07:00 AM
I'm sorry Rick, I am racking my brain on this one...why was that comment racist?
THL
  • THL
  • Herf-A-Holic
Wednesday, March 23, 2005 11:23:00 AM
lukin, anguses are black

Is "bussing" still practiced or has it become so commonplace that it's no longer news worthy?

And Rick, the Duke was from another generation. I bet your parents were racist by today's standards. Abe Lincoln certainly would be. What about Al Jolson? Al Sharpton?

And that joke made me laugh. I won't repeat it, but I laughed.

At any rate, if you're determined to dislike him, we probably aren't going to change your mind.

Charlie
Wednesday, March 23, 2005 12:39:00 PM
Actually, I had rather have Rick dislike John Wayne than have him admire the man! Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Charlie

tailgater
Wednesday, March 23, 2005 12:46:00 PM
I believe the Duke was a hero because he rid the western plains of those pesky "redskins"....

But I could be wrong, since I didn't confirm this on Google.

RICKAMAVEN
Friday, March 25, 2005 6:37:00 PM
THL

every so often a voice speaks out and i am glad to hear it.

my dad was in fact a racist. the subtle kind, but the minute i heard it i thought "what the hell is he talking about." i was 14 at the time but it sounded wrong.

you are correct about the generation, but remember

harriet tubman with the help of the quakers started the uderground railroad many generations before.

some people know the difference between good and bad, right and wrong and deal with it properly regardless of what others say and what immoral laws are created.

adroomi
Friday, March 25, 2005 6:48:00 PM
I'll get flamed for this.....but.....

Some years ago, I visited my parents for Christmas. A local television station decided to celebrate the holidays with a John Wayne movie marathon; as I had never seen a John Wayne movie before, and I didn't feel up to the task of braving the shopping malls, I figured it was a good time to improve my cultural literacy.

I spent the weekend watching John Wayne. John Wayne the cowboy, John Wayne the war hero, John Wayne the Great American Patriot.

It was nothing if not educational.

John Wayne, born with the unfortunate name Marion Morrison, is an American cultural icon. He is not, however, a good actor. He does not lose himself in his roles; rather, his roles lose themselves in him. He played one character over and over again...in his movies and in his life. And that character was a particularly repugnant individual.

My first impression of John Wayne was that he was a clumsier and less intelligent Captain Kirk. His foremost impulse seemed to be to punch anybody he couldn't ****. Like the Unabomber, he believed that political and social problems can be solved with sudden violence. His moral landscape was charted entirely in black and white; complexity and ambiguity were as alien to him as the heart of Antarctica is to a butterfly.

In a sense, he died at exactly the right time. Had he outlived the end of the Cold War, in a shifting political and social landscape suddenly less polarized and more complex, I don't think he could have adapted. John Wayne belongs to a world where the certainty of the white man's ascendancy was as unquestioned as the morning sunrise; where America is always right, everyone else is always wrong, women always just a step or two below their men; where macho swaggering bluster always carries the day. His crass characterizations of Indians and Communists and women and everybody else not blessed to be a true red-blooded middle-class American sound, to modern ears, uneducated, racist, sexist, and hopelessly outmoded.

But, fortunately, he died before the world caught on to what kind of man he was. Doubtless, some people would have continued to revere him even if he hadn't made his timely exit; his brand of dogma will always appeal to the Pat Robertsons and Charlton Hestons of the world.

It isn't really that I mind his sanctimonious self-assurance or his macho posturing or even his unselfconscious racism. Really, what galls me most about John Wayne, and the people who admire him and his mode of thinking, is his unwavering belief that there is only one right way to live. For John Wayne and those like him, the whole of the human condition reduces to a very simple moral equation: People like me are right; everybody else is wrong.

This kind of knee-jerk reaction hardly makes for a great American patriot. Quite the opposite, in fact; the patriotism that expresses from John's six-shooter doesn't demonstrate how much he loved America, only how much he hated everyone else. John Wayne reduced patriotism to a reflexive twitch.

A real patriot knows that “My country, right or wrong” requires no courage, and less thought. A real patriot is more likely to say “My country: When right to be kept right; when wrong to be put right”--because a real patriot knows that anything less is mere tribalism.

Therein lies the irony--John Wayne, the great American icon, hardly more sophisticated than his own crude caricature of the Indian. There is, in his worldview, only one right way to live; if you are like him, you are good, and if not, you are bad. The whole width and breadth of the human experience, reduced to the simplest of moral equations. He was not so much pro-American as he was anti-everything else.

John Wayne's time has passed. There are no savages left to fight any more, no Commies plotting to blow up the world. Being a man in the post-Cold War era is a bit more challenging than delivering a speech or a knuckle sandwich. And I don't think John Wayne ever was up to that challenge.

JonR
Friday, March 25, 2005 7:53:00 PM
Google search showed...

Seven innovative breeders chose to use "Red Angus" in 1954 to establish the industry’s first performance registry. Throughout its history, the "Red Angus" Association of America has gone on to make all the tough choices, and all the right choices. In recent years, the "Red Angus" breed has attained a high level of popularity from commercial cattlemen, and for all the right reasons.

Hmmmmmmm...

Maybe John Wayne isn't a subtle racist like Ricks' father after all, huh. I never heard tell of John Wayne using the "N" word or the word sand-"N" like Rick likes to use so often, maybe if Rick wants to find racists he should just shake his family tree.

JonR

adroomi
Friday, March 25, 2005 8:12:00 PM
“I don’t feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves.”

"Black people are not ready for, and shouldn't be allowed in public office (from the playboy interview)"

"All issues are black and white? Why the Hell not?"

— John Wayne

Racist, alcoholic, conservative,

All-American, Commie-hating,

Hollywood actor

JonR
Friday, March 25, 2005 8:27:00 PM
Yo adroomi:

Holy crap , at least give my type (reply) a chance to dry before you try to save face for Rick.

LOL

JonR

Ps: ""Black people are not ready for, and shouldn't be allowed in public office (from the playboy interview)"

In what Playboy issue (month/year) did John Wayne make that statement? Inquiring minds want to know.

adroomi
Friday, March 25, 2005 8:31:00 PM
May 1971

Yeah, I keep getting ink marks on my hand from writing too soon (lol). I guess I'm just too fast. I've got my laptop next to my pc and while doing some real "work" I occaisionally flip over to this site. You know how it is.

I'll slow down (maybe).

Charlie
Saturday, March 26, 2005 7:06:00 AM
I never said John Wayne was a good actor, in fact, he simply played himself on screen and the worst of his movies had to be "The Conquerer" filmed in Nevada and most of the cast and crew eventually died from cancer due (they think) to radiation from Atomic bomb testing!

But when you live in the Newport Beach area, the Duke is still the King!

Charlie

00camper
Saturday, March 26, 2005 5:04:00 PM
Gotta love revisionist history. When something goes out of style, it REALLY GOES OUT OF STYLE...
myash07
Saturday, March 26, 2005 6:10:00 PM
Rickmaven says:incidently i saw a doumentry with hime in it discussing herding cows from one place to another and he said "good thing they are not anguses, we would have to bus them."

I would like to know what documentry this was? I have almost every TV apperance and film on VHS, I also have almost every radio recording of John Wayne on CD. I've been to the National Archives to see the silent films that I do not have. I just do not recall Wayne making that statement.

Wayne was a Republican and supported Nixon, Rickmaven, do you recall what Wayne had to say about Nixon & Watergate?

mattmelcher
Saturday, March 26, 2005 7:16:00 PM
Holy Cow Ardoomi, what movies did you watch?

First off - as for his acting skills, they were every bit as good as Cagney, Stewart, Bogart, etc. that was due to the fact that the studios forced their will upon the actors at that time. The studios decided what kinds of characters you played. Cagney was the gangster; Stewart was the everyman; Bogart was...Bogart. The studios determined the roles and public persona that each actor portrayed. Wayne was the Iconic American. Sounds like marketing at its best.

'His brand of dogma' was the same brand espoused by every other top entertainer of his era. I find it odd that, while the entertainment industry has changed from it's extreme conservitism to extreme liberalism, it's still spouting dogma and people actually pay attention to what some of these people say.

As for John Wayne, If you can get past your thoughts of his diminished acting skills, I suggest you try to see 'The Searchers' by John Ford. In it, Wayne plays a racist indian killer who tries to find a young kidnapped girl with the intent of killing her. Sounds like your typical John Wayne movie, doesn't it? After that, see 'The Quiet Man'.

Has John Wayne's time passed? Obviously. Just like everything else from that era. I just wonder what history will make of the actors of today. I imagine that 50 years on, there will be very few conversations regarding the likes of Tom Cruise and Julia Roberts and what their images mean to the world of that time. Just a guess.

matt

adroomi
Saturday, March 26, 2005 7:23:00 PM
I never said I didn't like his movies. Someone on this thread asked someone else about racials slurs or something along those lines so I answered.

He was just an actor.....that's all.