usahog
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Friday, April 22, 2005 9:20:00 AM
What is the difference here??

What makes you tick?

There's been an awful lotta talk about many different faiths and non faiths.. but does anyone really know the difference??

Hog

myash07
Friday, April 22, 2005 9:25:00 AM
God is the supreme being...

Religion is how one worships...

8trackdisco
Friday, April 22, 2005 9:42:00 AM
You can be very much into God, but not much into organized religion. (just my .01)
lukin
Friday, April 22, 2005 9:47:00 AM
I believe wholeheartedly in God and Worship him daily....I have very little faith in some religions...absolute intolerance for most of the protestant sects (baptists, methodists. evangelical etc.) I think they rarely preach anything more than a corrupted version of God's message.
Clintock
Friday, April 22, 2005 9:56:00 AM
WOW!.......I never headr of one of thoes!

(a corrupted version of GOD's message!???)

Buckwheat
Friday, April 22, 2005 10:10:00 AM
God is the supreme being...

I'm not sure what religion is...but I know that it rarely has anything to do with the supreme being.

teedubbya
Friday, April 22, 2005 10:15:00 AM
I'm with the god = supreme being.

Religion introduces mankind and its interpretation - thus room for error.

I do not quesiton god, but I do question religion. Question does not = disagree, it = critical thought leading to conclusion.

vasmooth
Friday, April 22, 2005 10:43:00 AM
Religion seems to be one of the terms which everyone uses and everyone understands (on some level) but, when it comes to setting down a formal definition, no one knows quite what to do. However, no study of religion can proceed very far without at least some attempt to arrive at a definition.

Academic literature is filled with attempts to describe what religion is and many of those attempts are very unhelpful. Definitions of religion tend to suffer from one of two problems: they are either too narrow and exclude many of the belief systems which most people will agree are religious, or they are too vague and ambiguous, leading one to conclude that just about any and everything is actually a religion.

When it comes to the academic study of religion, such problems are fatal. If the definition is too narrow, students will miss much of what they should be studying. A good example of this is the common attempt to define "religion" as "belief in God," effectively excluding polytheistic religions and atheistic religions while including theists who have no religious belief system.

On the other hand, if the definition is too broad, students will lack direction and structure - never really getting to the topic they are trying to focus on. A good example of that is the tendency by some to simply define "religion" as "worldview" - but how can every worldview qualify as a religion? Some define religion as concern with "the sacred," but since that immediately raises the question of "What is sacred?" such a definition needs work.

Some have argued that religion isn't actually hard to define - in fact, the plethora of conflicting definitions is cited as evidence of just how easy it is to define religion. The problem, instead, lies in finding a definition which is empirically useful and empirically testable when it comes to real-life situations.

So far, the best definition of religion which I have seen can be found in The Encyclopedia of Philosophy. In the article on religion, it lists some characteristics of religions rather than simply declaring religion to be one thing or another. The more markers that are present in a belief system, the more"religious like" it is:

Belief in supernatural beings (gods).

A distinction between sacred and profane objects.

Ritual acts focused on sacred objects.

A moral code believed to be sanctioned by the gods.

Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual, and which are connected in idea with the gods.

Prayer and other forms of communication with gods.

A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein. This picture contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it.

A more or less total organization of one's life based on the world view.

A social group bound together by the above.

The above definition serves to capture much of what religion is even across diverse cultures. It includes sociological, psychological, and historical factors. Because it allows for broader gray areas in the concept of religion, I prefer it over more simplistic definitions we can find in basic dictionaries. Another advantage is that it includes many of the concepts discussed throughout the scholarly literature, uniting them in a handy, easy to understand way.

That is not to say that it is without its flaws, however. Notice how the first characteristic is about very general "supernatural beings" and gives "gods" as an example, but thereafter only talks about gods specifically. Even the concept of "supernatural beings" is perhaps a bit too specific; Mircea Eliade defined religion in reference to a focus on "the sacred," and it seems that it could be an appropriate replacement for "supernatural beings" because not every religion necessarily revolves around the supernatural (although that is rather common). Thus, a more comprehensive definition might look like this:

Belief in something sacred (for example, gods or other supernatural beings).

A distinction between sacred and profane objects.

Ritual acts focused on sacred objects.

A moral code believed to have a sacred or supernatural basis.

Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual.

Prayer and other forms of communication with the supernatural.

A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein. This picture contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it.

A more or less total organization of one's life based on the world view.

A social group bound together by the above

Mo'sMan
Friday, April 22, 2005 10:46:00 AM
myash07.......God is the supreme being...

Religion is how one worships...

mo'sman.......I couldn't agree more.

8trackdisco.......You can be very much into God, but not much into organized religion.

mo'sman.......absolutely. Oh, I've always thought that was a cool nick.

TrannyMk
Friday, April 22, 2005 10:49:00 AM
Buckwheat Date: 04/22/2005 02:10 PM Reply

"God is the supreme being...

I'm not sure what religion is...but I know that it rarely has anything to do with the supreme being."

Just curious Buckwheat, if you arent sure what religion is, then how do you know if it rarely has anything to do with the supreme being?

Also, there are so many religions you couldnt possibly know how each worships God... unless religions are your specialty I suppose...

Buckwheat
Friday, April 22, 2005 10:50:00 AM
vasmooth
Friday, April 22, 2005 10:53:00 AM
God is a word that means different things to different people. To many Taoist or Buddhist the word is not part of their religion's glossary. To Hindus that word has a different meaning than it does to a Christian. Muslims have a different perspective and so do the Jews. So for the purpose of The Mystic Doctrines website, we need a common definition of God.

Quoting different sources from each religion before revealing the definition.

Taoism

Tao, the subtle reality of the universe cannot be described, That which can be described in words is mearly a conception of the mind. Although names and descriptions have been applied to it, the subtle reality is beyond the description.

Tao Teh Ching - beginning of chapter 1

The subtle essense of the universe is elusive and evasive.

...

It is the subtle origin of the whole of creation and non-creation. It existed prior to the beginning of time as the deep and subtle reality of the universe. It brings all into being.

Tao Teh Ching - portions of chapter 21

Buddhism

"There is, O monks, an unborn, unoriginated, uncreated, unformed. Were there not, O monks, this unborn, unoriginated, uncreated, unformed, there would be no escape from the world of the born, originated, created, formed.

"Since, O monks, there is an unborn, unoriginated, uncreated, and unformed, therefore is there an escape from the born, originated, created, formed."

The Gospel of Buddha - Sermon at the bamboo grove at Rajagaha

Hinduism

Neither the multitude of gods nor great sages know of my origin, for I am the source of all the gods and great sages.

A mortal who knows me as the unborn, beginningless great lord of the worlds is freed from all delusion and all evils.

The Bhagavad-Gita - The tenth teaching, verses 2 & 3

Sihkism

There is One, only One Supreme Being, Truth Eternal, Creator of all seen & unseen, Fearless, Without hatred, Timeless Being, Non-Incarnated, Self created, Realized by the Grace of Guru (Perfect Master Only.)

Guru Granth Sahib Page 1

Judaism

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Genesis 1:1

For thus saith the Eternal that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the self existent One; and there is none else.

Isaiah 45:18

Christianity

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself. He was present originally with God. All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without him was not one thing made that has come into being.

Gospel of John 1:1-3

Sufism

You are the Absolute Existence which causes (our) transient (existences) to appear.

Masnavi - Book 1 - Creator and Creation

Now, a definition of God.

God is the indescribable, uncreated, self existent, eternal all knowing source of all reality and being.

vasmooth
Friday, April 22, 2005 10:58:00 AM
Buckwheat
Friday, April 22, 2005 11:08:00 AM
I'm sorry TrannyMk, I should clarify myself. I can only speak of christian religions, catholic to be specific, having very little to do with the supreme being. I don’t pretend to know or even remotely understand a supreme being. I guess that you possess this knowledge and are better for it. I prefer not to lie to myself and believe in something that I truly know is a 100% man made entity (religion). I’ll stick to my faith in a god and leave others to their religion.

You are right vasmooth, I do probably need to chill out. I tend to get a little worked up over this stuff. It was good information that you posted.

TrannyMk
Friday, April 22, 2005 1:05:00 PM
Buckwheat

I gave you absolutely no info about my knowlege. I asked you a question. You assumed the rest.

You said; "I prefer not to lie to myself and believe in something that I truly know is a 100% man made entity (religion)."

Do you know what the prayer of the faithful is? Or the Apostles Creed?

To refresh your memory, there is a line in that prayer that says, 'he was born of the Virgin Mary and became man'

If you are a practicing Catholic you should know this. Like the creed says, 'he became man'(Christ). So if Christ was born a man, and religion is man made why is that a problem?

Maybe you call yourself a Catholic, but should think about why you are one... after thinking about it, maybe you will decide not to be one after all...

Steve*R
Friday, April 22, 2005 2:48:00 PM
Well, according to David Barrett, an editor of the "World Christian Encyclopedia: A Comparative Survey of Churches and Religions," there are 19 major world religions which are subdivided into a total of 270 large religious groups, and many smaller ones. 34,000 separate Christian groups have been identified in the world. "Over half of the separate Christian groups are independent churches that are not interested in linking with the big denominations."

Each religion looks at a Supreme Being in a different way or the religion wouldn't have a raison d'etre. Some are existential; others transcend the existential to Sartre's, "leap of faith".

When studying religious belief and practice, it's always enlightening to read Eric Hoffer's The True Believer and to review Leon Festinger's writings on cognitive dissonance.

Cigarick
Friday, April 22, 2005 5:45:00 PM
GOD: The only name other than her own which I can call out while in the throes of 'le petite mort' that will not cause my wife to strangle me.

"History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unknown without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it."

Robert Heinlein

We are the smartest monkeys on the planet--that's it. Once you're dead, you're dead, so if you want any special rewards or whatever, you'd better get them now.

"He not busy being born is busy dyin'."

Jesus Zimmerman

adroomi
Friday, April 22, 2005 5:50:00 PM
Cigarick,

At least we agree on something.

In fact, I also like Dylan, so that's two things.

Buckwheat
Saturday, April 23, 2005 7:58:00 AM
TrannyMk

First I was raised a Catholic but I'm certainly not a Catholic (or even a Christian). The only thing that I assumed about your knowledge was that you believe in some sort of Christian religion and I gave you credit for it. It really isn't up to me to say what you believe or don't believe. That being said, I do believe in a supreme being. I also believe that all religion is man made BS that is used to try to understand something that can't be understood. The bible and all religious texts of all religions are man made BS. Just because this may offend you doesn't really concern me. Have a good one.

jackconrad
Saturday, April 23, 2005 8:54:00 AM
Your relationship with God should be a personal one. I beleive many common organized religions are dangerous and not the wish of God.