RDC
  • RDC
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
Tuesday, July 5, 2005 10:33:00 AM
6/13/05

By Mortimer B. Zuckerman

Editor: US News and World Report

A Second Chance

How should Americans come to terms with the fact we now have more than 11 million people living here outside the rule of law? I refer, of course, to the shadow population of "undocumented workers" or "illegal aliens" that outnumbers threefold the American population at the founding of the republic!

If a proliferating community of illegal aliens is the price of immigration, most Americans feel it is simply too high. No poll has ever shown that Americans want more immigrants. In fact, more than half want fewer. Why?

Illegal aliens are widely seen as undermining law enforcement and security, undercutting native-born workers, and diffusing the very identity of America.

The tougher issue is to figure out a humane program to deal with the problem. Deporting millions of immigrants would be a logistical and financial nightmare--and a moral one. Many have worked here for years and see themselves as Americans. It would mean breaking up families, many of whose children were born here and are American citizens. Police dragnets through barrios and workplaces would be abhorrent to most Americans.

As it is, we have a hard enough job mending our broken borders. I once spent a night with the Border Patrol, driving in their jeeps, buzzing up and down the border in helicopters with powerful spotlights. We spotted hundreds of migrants walking and running into America. Those who were captured would be sent back to Mexico, certain to try and try again until they succeeded.

People desperate for work will go where it is. This isn't just economics--it's human nature.

Phase 1. To continue the status quo is unacceptable. A New Yorker cartoon captured our dilemma exquisitely. It shows two Indians peering through some bushes on a beach as the Mayflower comes in. One Indian says to the other, "Looks like we are going to need an immigration policy." Precisely. We can contrive such a policy only by getting down to the roots of the problem:

Mexican poverty and America's transformation from a manufacturing to a service and knowledge economy. Americans with education simply won't take the kind of menial jobs that many immigrants will. They come here because even at low pay they earn vastly more than they can at home.

We have to figure out how to fully integrate these illegal immigrants into our nation so that they become productive, law-abiding citizens, paying taxes and learning English. President Bush and, more recently, Sens. John McCain and Edward Kennedy have offered serious proposals to address the problem. The first phase of a solution would be a guest-worker program that would permit migrant workers to cross the border legally and do the field, construction, and service work they have for almost a hundred years. The workers would not be granted the right to stay here permanently, but we would know who and where they are. The hope would be that once the available jobs were filled by authorized immigrants, those unauthorized would stop coming because employers could no longer hire them. This would free the Border Patrol to look for terrorists--instead of people just seeking work.

The next phase would be trickier. How would we develop some kind of earned legalization program for the illegal workers already here without creating the expectation that asylum would eventually be granted to all?

Both the Bush and the McCain-Kennedy plans make allowance for illegal immigrants to gain what would be, in effect, a temporary visa. They could work for a prescribed time, pay taxes, and, in time, apply for a green card.

Intuitively, many Americans reject these ideas because they smack of accepting illegality and providing an amnesty. In fact, the proposals don't forgive illegals for breaking the rules but offer them an opportunity to earn their way back to the right side of the law--an American version of a second chance. Yes, they must wait as long as other applicants for full legal status, but at least they can begin the process of assimilation. But there should be one constraint: We must stop the endless chain of immigration that results from an absurdly loose family reunification policy that allows an immigrant to bring a brother who brings a sister who brings a brother-in-law, who brings a daughter, ad infinitum. At the same time, we would do well to balance the influx of unskilled workers by reopening the door now half-closed to people with the unique education skills and vitality we need.

The Bush and McCain-Kennedy programs offer humane and practical ways of eliminating the shadow world of illegal aliens, enhancing security, and nurturing the ever evolving American identity. In the phrase of our founders, let us "form a more perfect union." Objections will come from left, right, and center, but reform of immigration calls for genuine national leadership, and it calls for it now.

MACS
Tuesday, July 5, 2005 11:28:00 AM
It is a problem, and I honestly don't have a viable solution...

What DO we do?

rugrunner
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 3:41:00 PM
I suppose a minefield would be out of the question?
allbidness
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 4:28:00 PM
Automated pulse weapons? Fire ants? Giant pictures of Laura Bush in her old lady underwear?
rugrunner
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 4:53:00 PM
Hillary Clinton in full rant...
allbidness
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 5:27:00 PM
Instead of repelling them we might attract them back. What to use as bait?

1. Taco on a string?

2. Giant picture of Madonna crying blood?

3. Sign saying "This way to free health care" pointing TO the US?(reverse psychology)

allbidness
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 5:35:00 PM
I've got it!

Giant billboards with Hillary, Laura, George, and Bill en flagrante delicto! That would repel ANY invasion!

It might just work

tey
  • tey
  • Herf-A-Holic
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 6:47:00 PM
White paranoia at its finest. And Rugrunner I'd like to see you put a minefield in my neighborhood. It's verbal garbage like that thats gonna cause race wars in the future.
rugrunner
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 8:36:00 PM
Well there you are my brave little soul. Funny how if I say it it's verbal garbage but when you spew your tripe it standing up to the man! When you call people racist names it's okay, but if I want the borders enforced it's white paranoia. You don't even know if I am white. You are a one trick pony with nothing to say.

It's you that are trying to start a race war not I. Lots of people had had it tough. The rest of us just don't blame everything on whitey.

tey
  • tey
  • Herf-A-Holic
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 9:12:00 PM
I have never once suggested that minefields should be used against "whitey" yet you say they should be used on mexicans twice. And it makes little difference to me what color someone is. If you suggest that mines be used on pregnent women and folks who are braving the Az heat just to put friut on your table then thats inhumane.
TrannyMk
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 9:45:00 PM
Tey

You are a hit and run libby. You have no guts to engage in a real debate. Why dont you ever stick it out when confronted? You act like a coward in the political arena.

TrannyMk
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 9:57:00 PM
Tey

Where do you live? Can you answer that simple question? And what nationality do you think I am?

You think that you represent minority views dont you? Well, I'm a minority racially(Mexican). I have never felt like I'm in the minority because I love being an AMERICAN!

usahog
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 9:58:00 PM
I'm callin a Bull**** Flag...

Tey, Your the **** racest in this bunch.. all i've seen you post is racest this racest that.. well Busll****... this is reverse discrimination your tossing out here and your full of crap... you never did go back and give an honest explenation for TrannyMk nor my questions to you directly... But you don't hesitate to jump to another thread and toss up your Racest Card??

You Damn sure wouldn't like it have someone call you a Beaner... (and to be Honest as hell I never knew what that word meant until I went through basic training at Lackland AFB in 1985) I thought it was a term used to tease someone with... little did I know it was alright for one of the same race to call another one... but anyone from the outside race do that and they'd cut your throat??

Many of people I've met and seen post in forums(this one especially) hold a resentment with people from another nationality or for color.. all I can say is you people have never seen the real world and your really fucked up.. but it's easier for you to call it because you yourself don't know the facts of life!!

you learn it from hearsay... and that should be gospil and go from there... Your dead wrong!!

People should not be judged by where they came from, what their outside color is, nor what political party they belong to... they should be viewed by who they are (individually) and what perspective you recieve them from... but all in all they are still children of god!!!

Now get over yourself and debate like a man/woman or get yer ass over to cigars and related or trades board and STFU!!!!!

Hog

tey
  • tey
  • Herf-A-Holic
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 10:16:00 PM
Listen hog,

I don't toss my pearls to swine and I never lower myself to just flat out cuss people out. I'm a full bloode mexican born in mexico city, raised in east los angeles, currently residing in Arizona. So you can say I've bascially lived in Mexico all my life. I'm married with two kids, both half white. I have a 3 month old infant and a 12 year old with down syndrome, so therefore I don't have as much time as ya'll do to go off on your xenophobic rants. There are alot of mexicans out there who are the brown equivalent of the house negro. They are so gung ho americans without realizing history but I've given up on many of them, Say what you will but this country was partially founded by alot of rascist bastards. You can't prove me wrong because you can't block out the Native Americans or enslaved africans. Your founding fathers have so much blood on their hands it is not even funny. Now leave me alone! I'm trying to watch a document on an old friend of my grandfathers, Leon Trotsky.

TrannyMk
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 10:28:00 PM
Another reply with no answers. WTF?

Tey why dont you find a mexican forum? Or do you like being a joke on this one?

Like Hog said "Now get over yourself and debate like a man/woman or get yer ass over to cigars and related or trades board"

And FYI Arizona isnt like Mexico. And dont try to argue with me on this, I lived there.

I'm fed up with your ways. You should live in Mexico.

usahog
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 10:29:00 PM
rascist bastards> Can't argue nor debate that...

I'll leave you to your document... but you've got days/months to come back and give an honest answer to the questions that you raised with other members on this forum with your "rants" because until you do that is all they were!! instead of stiring the pot why don't you try thickining it? we've all got a common bond with cigars, we can all have a common bond with Life as well... if your going to have a chip on your shoulder and not expand your knowledge of todays world and always judge people from their forefathers... your never going to learn from the mistakes from the past.. and I can tell you.. that leads to wars and more wars!!

Hog

usahog
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 10:33:00 PM
BTW If memory is correct TrannyMK also has Mexican Blood running in him as well?? he and I have never met.. but through the years of sharing emails and discussions on this board.. I'm not to proud to not give this BOTL a hug if/when we ever meet up!!

Hog

TrannyMk
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 10:36:00 PM
Tey

I've done the work for you. Go here and talk about cigars in spanish.

http://www.virtualmex.com/upbb/index.php 

This isnt a cigar site. But since you are a world class debater, I'm sure you can get in and change that.

jjohnson28
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 11:00:00 PM
I gave him a hug once Russ, it aint all that trust me... LOL

JJ

TrannyMk
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 11:04:00 PM
JJ, you hurt my feelings...