RDC
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Wednesday, July 6, 2005 6:46:00 AM
Assembly panel rejects illegal immigration measures By Steve Lawrence ASSOCIATED PRESS

4:21 p.m. July 5, 2005

SACRAMENTO - An Assembly committee on Tuesday rejected proposed constitutional amendments seeking to deny a series of benefits to illegal immigrants and create a state border police force, but both could resurface next year as ballot initiatives.

The Judiciary Committee voted 4-2 to turn down an amendment by Assemblyman Mark Wyland, R-Del Mar, that would prevent illegal immigrants from receiving any health care or social services not required by federal law.

The committee also voted 5-2 to reject an amendment by Assemblyman Ray Haynes, R-Murrieta, that would create a state border police force to supplement federal efforts to enforce immigration laws, including the ban on hiring illegal immigrants.

Republican lawmakers said illegal immigration costs California $9 billion to $10 billion a year in areas such as education, health care and incarceration and that the federal government isn't controlling the borders.

"The federal government has just abandoned state and local governments and is doing a terrible job on this...," Assemblyman Tom Harman, R-Huntington Beach, said in support of the Wyland measure. "Something needs to be done.

This is the right step in the right direction."

Opponents said both measures raised constitutional questions, that they could actually increase state costs and that the two lawmakers should be complaining to President Bush about inadequate immigration enforcement.

"If there's a need for greater security, that's a need the federal administration should be taking on," said Judiciary Committee chairman Dave Jones, D-Sacramento.

Haynes said California officials should "quit whining about the federal government doing their job and actually get about the business of doing our job - protecting the safety, health and quite frankly the pocketbook of the people of the state of California."

The committee rejected the proposals along party lines. To take effect, constitutional amendments require a two-thirds majority vote in both houses of the Legislature and then must be approved by voters.

Haynes and Wyland said there would be efforts to put their proposals - or similar ones - on the ballot next year as initiatives. Such a step could re-ignite the heated debate over immigration that was triggered by Proposition 187 of 1994.

Voters approved Proposition 187, which was a broader ban on social services for illegal immigrants than Wyland's legislation, but a federal court subsequently ruled most of it unconstitutional. Wyland predicted it would have been upheld if then-Gov. Gray Davis had pursued an appeal.

Wyland said he was "absolutely certain" his legislation would be upheld if challenged in the courts, but Jones said it had "serious constitutional defects."

Opponents also challenged Haynes' contention that federal law and court rulings would allow California to set up its own force of immigration police.

Hayes said he envisioned a force of about 1,700 officers that could supplement federal efforts to prevent illegal immigrants from crossing the Mexican border, as well as arresting illegal immigrants who succeed in entering the state.

He said there is no federal enforcement once illegal immigrants get passed the border.

Opponents questioned where the deficit-plagued state would get the money to pay for the extra officers and said immigration police could jeopardize the relationship between local officers and immigrant communities.

"The solution is not to create a new border patrol," Francisco Estrada, director of public policy for the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund, told the committee.

What's needed instead, he said, is "comprehensive immigration reform" that would clear up a visa backlog and allow a legal immigrant work force.

Wyland said his legislation would bar the state from providing nonemergency medical care for illegal immigrants. It also would make them ineligible for retirement benefits, welfare, disability benefits, unemployment benefits, and housing and food assistance, according to an Assembly analysis of the legislation.

The measure also would prohibit the state from issuing driver's licenses or state identification cards to illegal immigrants, bar attempts to allow them to vote, deny them a break on tuition at public colleges and universities, and require voters to show proof of citizenship at the polls.

A bill by state Sen. Gil Cedillo, D-Los Angeles, that would allow illegal immigrants to get driver's licenses has passed the Senate and is awaiting a hearing in the Assembly Appropriations Committee.

Wyland said his proposal would eliminate incentives for illegal immigrants to come to California, but Jones said jobs are the real lure.

"Until business organizations get serious about increasing sanctions on employers who hire people illegally, people are going to continue to come across the border," Jones said.

Opponents said the Wyland amendment could boost health costs by denying preventive care to illegal immigrants and would raise equal protection questions by denying benefits to the U.S. citizen children of those immigrants.

MACS
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 6:57:00 AM
I can name a number of states that do NOT collect state taxes from their citizens, but do NOT have budget problems.

California has idiots running it. Period.

The initiatives were voted down, probably because those particular politicians have a vested interest in illegal immigration, or their families immigrated here illegally and became citizens, or they themselves are of Mexican descent and wanted to support their 'people'.

We took Texas and California from Mexico way back when... they're taking them back without a shot being fired.

tey
  • tey
  • Herf-A-Holic
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 8:16:00 AM
Dude if it wasn't for California's economy this country could possibly fall.
usahog
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 8:23:00 AM
"Dude if it wasn't for California's economy this country could possibly fall."

Tey, Dude... if it wasn't for the illegal(slave labor) and pay differences California wouldn't be so robust with economy??

Illegal Allians are not being picked on and it's not some Racest BS your trying to pass off in your posts...

Bottom Line is, there are Laws for Immigration on the Books... and Breaking the Laws is something that is happening in every State in this nation!

Hog

rugrunner
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 3:33:00 PM
tey... oh tey... your other threads are getting cold.

There are people in china starving for good threads young man(in my best mom's voice).LOL

The article says-

Opponents said the Wyland amendment could boost health costs by denying preventive care to illegal immigrants and would raise equal protection questions by denying benefits to the U.S. citizen children of those immigrants.

Doesn't preventive health only save you money if you pay the bill? If they don't get any health care where's the savings from preventive health care?

Steve*R
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 3:59:00 PM
"Doesn't preventive health only save you money if you pay the bill? If they don't get any health care where's the savings from preventive health care?"

The most expensive health care in the U.S. is that administered by emergency rooms in publically funded and publically assisted research hospitals. These emergency rooms have become the primary care facilities for the poor, uninsured, and illegal. By law, they may not deny medical care to anyone, legal or illegal. It's also important for these hospitals to identify any communicable diseases that a patient, legal or illegal may present, to protect the general population.

Preventative care saves the taxpayer money by keeping those who don't pay for their own medical care out of the emergency rooms. For example...an illegal is experiencing some thoracic discomfort. His state provides preventative care. He goes to a clinic for tests.....fee to the taxpayer through medical assistance, $300 to $700. Without preventative care, he goes to the emergency room of the local public hospital, describes chest pain...ECG, blood sediment, stress test, overnight in hospital, costs could run $4000 to $6000.

The issue in the legislation is whether it's cheaper for the taxpayer to provide preventative care for the illegal; not for himself. Ultimately, those who pay taxes will pay for the medical care of those who do not. The issue is, what's the most economical way to do it; preventative or emergency.

rugrunner
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 5:04:00 PM
There you are Steve*R, I knew you couldn't hide for ever!

Luckily you are as off base here as anywhere else so here goes! If the law prohibits illegals from getting free heath care that means no preventive care and no future care. So if we don't pay for the cancer surgery in ten years we can't save money by preventive care now.

I'm not saying right or wrong I'm pointing out what a stupid argument that is.

Oh, if we put ice agents in the emergency room and when illegals come in, we deport them then we don't have to pay for their care! IMNHO maybe this will be easier for you without those pesky Q. marks rearing their ugly heads.

8trackdisco
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 5:05:00 PM
minefield
rugrunner
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 5:21:00 PM
We could even throw up a few signs so they would know....
Steve*R
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 7:00:00 PM
rugrunner: It's really quite clear that you have no clue as to what constitutes the Hippocratic Oath taken by all physicians or the federal regulations which require emergency room treatment in public hospitals that receive any federal dollars.

California, or any state, could pass legislation denying preventative care for the poor, illegals, or Martians, but they'd be sacrificing their federal funding and could suffer heavy fines.

Steve*R
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 7:13:00 PM
Also:

rugrunner wrote: "if we put ice (INS) agents in the emergency room and when illegals come in, we deport them then we don't have to pay for their care!"

If the illegals are ill or injured and the INS agents inhibited their ability to get medical care while in a medical facility, the INS agents could be charged with any number of misdeamenors and/or felonies; anything from criminal indifference to contributory negligence.

If, in the worst case scenario, an illegal were rushed to an emergency room with a life threatening condition, and an INS agent inhibited treatment, resulting in the illegal's death, the INS agent could be charged with manslaughter.

Because a person is illegal, does not allow a citizen, including any agent of the government to act against them in an injurious manner.

rugrunner
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 8:00:00 PM
Steve*R are you planning to continue this one? Or will you run again? It is quiet clear that you have no idea of the damage beeing done to this country by Illegals. I have never taken the hippocratic oath have you? Fedral law can be changed. Go to mexico and demand they treat you in a hospital. See what you get. If they are here illegally I don't think we need to give them care if they don't have cash. We have to many rights without resposabilities. I also think we should legalize drugs. On the condition that if you show up with an overdose we wheel you back outside to die. By the way, not helping you and treating you in an injurious manner are two different things.
Steve*R
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 8:08:00 PM
rugrunner: Reading your post made me laugh. Thanks.

Based on your posts, I'm quite certain you're probably a pretty good floor man. As a debater, you really could be helped by some coaching. I'll wager, as a kid, you usually colored outside the lines. You can't do that in a debate.

The issue, here, is changing California state law and the cost to the taxpayer of preventative versus emergency room care. How you transitioned to suggesting that I go to Mexico and demand medical treatment has nothing to do with this discussion.

rugrunner
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 8:26:00 PM
Steve*R, actually as a kid I colored inside the lines, using a crayon in each hand.

You are one to talk about debating techniques. In a debate you don't win if you leave the podium every time someone proves you wrong. Your attempted hit on my intelligence by bringing up my lowly blue collar profession reveals much about you. I work for myself and have not had a boss in years. I make low 6 figures designing and install custom ceramic tile and am proud of my work. Also your patronizing "your post make me laugh" remark is rather passive aggressive. Be a man, say what you mean, and stop running away when you loose. With a bit of work I think you might be able to keep up. Or go post on the Howard dean forum where you can make little sense and they love you for it!

jackconrad
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 8:56:00 PM
What happened to Eydie Gormet?
Steve*R
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 9:05:00 PM
rugrunner wrote: "Be a man, say what you mean."

Okay, rug...you argue from a point of view; not from a point of information. You confuse what you want the world to be like with the way the world actually is. You respond to realities with hypotheticals and in most cases, without having done any research.

Come to the table with knowledge, not opinion alone.

TrannyMk
Wednesday, July 6, 2005 11:02:00 PM
Steve*R stalking ruggy again... it's so transparent...
adroomi
Saturday, July 9, 2005 11:23:00 PM
Federal law CAN be changed.....go down to Mexico and see if they treat you there.

You're right Rug, we should change our laws and strive to be exactly like Mexico.....

Why is it that some folks that wave the flag and crap about how we are the greatest country in the world and all that other BS are so anxious to WANT us to behave like the very countries they claim we are better than?

xibbumbero
Sunday, July 10, 2005 4:40:00 PM
Good question,I've wondered that meself. X
herfsnipe
Sunday, July 10, 2005 4:53:00 PM
"What happened to Eydie Gormet?"

_______________________________

Doesn't she have that show on the Food Network? You know, the one with the gay husband who opens the wine and croons "I'll be seeing you in all the familiar places" while she prepares the tarte' flambee'?