I am getting a bit confused here. Now I thought the joya De's were the ones that made the councul, and Hoya made the robustos, but on the auctions it was the other way around. IN fact I just checked the CI website, and there the Joya does make the Counsul! But on the auctions, there is a box of Joya Robusto, which is not on the CI website. Confused? I sure the hell am, the Hoya and Joya are different cigars, in my mind the Joya much better.

let me add to the confusion, on the Joya auction, the picture looks like a box of Hoyas

Sometime back I bidded on a box of Joya De's Robusto's and won. The one's here being auctioned are the same and a decent cigar at that. I believe I got the box for around $40. The Joya line also makes the Consul to my knowledge, in fact I am almost sure of that. The Hoya De's however I have yet to try, sorry!

I had a look see at the box on this site after you mentioned it. That is the same box the Joya's I ordered were sent in.....picture of men picking tobacco. Don't know if the Hoya line has the same box and picture in their line or not, sorry. I don't think the Hoya and Joya's are interrelated to one another.

Um... are we talking about Joya, Hoja, Hoya, or Joyo!?!? I am so confused right now.... You'd think these cigarmakers would name their sticks something unique instead of lumping them with each other.. Now the names have all become one big clusterf**k. One bit of info I can contribute to this thread is that I didn't enjoy the Hoja de Nicaragua's one bit. I'm aging them with some Don Tomas in the garbage can 🙂