Northsidepk
Tuesday, February 22, 2011 12:41:06 PM
So I believe they are not actually painted. What i'm referring to are cigars with artificial coloring on their wrappers, typically to make them darker....

Anyone know of any stix that have this undesirable characteristic.

I know of one: El Major Espresso, color came off on my fingers....

I have heard (not verified) that RP Edge Maduro wrappers are steamed to get their color prior to rolling.

Thunder.Gerbil
Tuesday, February 22, 2011 12:53:13 PM
The color coming off on your fingers isn't really a definite indicator. If you were to go to, for example, the Padron factory, as I have been, you'd see that everyone there who is working with the maduro wrappers, their hands are black from the natural oils and pigments in the leaves that come off when the leaves are dipped in water prior to rolling. Drew Estate, JdN and My Fater factory, same thing with the rollers hands. There's no dyes used at any of those factories.

The only "artificially created color" wrapper that I can tell you for certain is the Partagas Black - it's boiled.

Northsidepk
Tuesday, February 22, 2011 12:54:40 PM
Good info, thanx
Thunder.Gerbil
Tuesday, February 22, 2011 1:03:01 PM
I'll look through my photos a bit later and see if I have a few that really show just how much pigment comes off when working with a wet maduro wrapper.

Stinkdyr
Tuesday, February 22, 2011 1:09:23 PM
Would Rocky allow such deception in the production of his stix???????????????

LONsdale
Tuesday, February 22, 2011 2:02:56 PM
I smoked a Gurkha G5, the wrapper looked painted, the most jet black I've ever seen. By the time I finished it the paint was warn off, and the wrapper looked a more normal dark brown. My fingers and lips were dyed black. To make matters worse it was a horrible stick.
hombre
Tuesday, February 22, 2011 2:05:39 PM

I smoked a Gurkha G5, the wrapper looked painted, the most jet black I've ever seen. By the time I finished it the paint was warn off, and the wrapper looked a more normal dark brown. My fingers and lips were dyed black. To make matters worse it was a horrible stick.

LONsdale wrote:

Never had that problem with a G5 or any other gurkha. I love the G5.

ZRX1200
Tuesday, February 22, 2011 2:08:35 PM
El padrino.
JadeRose
Tuesday, February 22, 2011 2:45:00 PM

El padrino.

ZRX1200 wrote:

Yep...these nasty fuqers are dyed. I left most of a cigar out in the rain one time and watched the rain wash the dye off. It was (and I'm serious) candela under the dye. GROSS!!!

ZRX1200
Tuesday, February 22, 2011 3:25:26 PM
^ yup.

You can watch the burnline and see the green.

dpnewell
Tuesday, February 22, 2011 11:23:47 PM

Would Rocky allow such deception in the production of his stix???????????????

Stinkdyr wrote:

The easier question is "does Rocky make a stick he doesn't dye?"

donutboy2000
Thursday, February 24, 2011 1:07:24 AM
'

WHERE'S ROCKY ?

mk05
Thursday, February 24, 2011 1:18:08 AM
no such thing as a maduro at padron.
05busa
Thursday, February 24, 2011 1:22:19 AM
I love flat black...my favorite smoke!!!
Thunder.Gerbil
Thursday, February 24, 2011 2:49:13 AM

no such thing as a maduro at padron.

mk05 wrote:

Really? Care to explain?

Thunder.Gerbil
Thursday, February 24, 2011 3:43:09 AM
BTW - I haven't had time to go through the photos to find some Padron factory photos, but here are some ones from Drew Estates, of one of Jon's top rolleras working on an LP9 Flying Pig that I already have on line.

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1823/0561flyingpigtailroll1.jpg 

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/7849/0562flyingpigtailroll2.jpg 

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/5068/0563flyingpigtailroll3.jpg 

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/496/0567flyingpigtailroll4.jpg 

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6493/0568flyingpigtailroll5.jpg 

You can see the natural pigments from the cigar wrapper on her hands, the corners of the metal topped rolling block where it just kind of collects and builds up along with the rag she uses to wipe down the block before applying the wrapper.

Will dyes (which BTW, are typically made from stalks of the tobacco plant) come off, yes they can. But, the pigments will also come off of undyed cigars as you can see here.

Northsidepk
Thursday, February 24, 2011 4:59:55 AM
With the El Major Espresso I mentioned in the OP, I still believe the wrapper is colored some how. I understand how a very naturally dark wrapper will stain you hands if working with them. But my experience has been that the color comes off a bit too easily with the El Major Espresso.....

And hey I could be wrong...But even if I am, and it is just the natural pigment. Why wouldn't they rinse it or apply some procedure so the smoker wouldn't have to worry about staining his/her hands?

Thunder.Gerbil
Thursday, February 24, 2011 12:49:41 PM
It might be, I never really cared for the El Mejor Espresso cigar anyway so I haven't had one in years, all I was saying, and I think we're on the same page now, is that just because pigment comes off, isn't a definite indicator of dying.

There's a few ways to darken a wrapper:

-natural fermentation in the pilons, higher temps, longer fermentations, each manufacturer has their own unique way of doing things here. "Tricks" so to speak, some stack their pilons differently, different levels of moisture are kept in the fermentation rooms, some use weights on the pilons, some let them go to higher temperatures before breaking them down, some let their fermentation rooms climb to higher temperatures, etc..., none of these are bad or unnatural, just unique ways of doing things. The longer they ferment, the more evenly colored and darker the leaves get. Early on in the fermentation process, the leaves are often splotchy and many, many different shades. Eventually the splotchiness evens out and the colors become more similar. They still have to color sort the leaves, that way you receive a box of cigars that is relatively uniform in color, but not necessarily the same color as the next box.

-Dying: crush down the stalks, make a dye, apply it. Some manufacturers use this as a way of touching up the splotchiness, some use it to color the leaves, some use it to make every box the same. Unfortunately, it doesn't stick well to the oily leaves.

-Steaming: Cooking the leaves - will rapidly darken the leaves, but can leave them flavorless. Honestly, I'm not sure if any reputable manufacturer uses these machines. They were around a lot in the 90's to make wrappers in short order for the boom sales, where you had cigar fly-by-night cigar companies popping up in every parking lot and street corner.

-Boiling - Only one I know that uses this is the Partagas Black, it creates such a perfect, dark, dull, even coloration, no point even hiding that you're doing it.

KPP
  • KPP
  • Herf-A-Holic
Thursday, February 24, 2011 12:59:42 PM

no such thing as a maduro at padron.

mk05 wrote:

Really? Care to explain?

Thunder.Gerbil wrote:

There ya go again Marc......#-o

lettin' your fingers write checks, your ass (or brain I guess) just can't cash.

Although I am curious to hear your response to this one.

Go on.....I dare ya......

DrMaddVibe
Thursday, February 24, 2011 1:02:07 PM
What was the red dye job cigar that n00bs were fanatical about?

I remember seeing a guy smoke one and he looked like he had lipstick on about halfway through with it. I dyed laughing!