In February 1971, one month after the revelations of the My Lai massacre, an astonishing public inquiry into war crimes committed by American forces in Vietnam was held at a Howard Johnson motel in Detroit. The Vietnam Veterans Against the War organized this event called the Winter Soldier Investigation. More than 125 veterans spoke of atrocities they had witnessed and committed.

http://www.wintersoldierfilm.com/ 

i have a copy of the dvd and will send a copy to anyone interested.

RICKAMAVEN@HOTMAIL

.COM

Almost all combat vets know that at times war can reduce the best of us to our most base, cruel, animal characteristics. Sometimes that can include killing anything you're able to reach.

But alas, we're supposed to be the good guys. Immune to those urges that driven soldiers since the group from Cave A attacked the group from Cave B.

Men at war often behave badly.

As a Viet Nam veteran I witnessed events that some may term "atrocities." Were the men/boys involved evil or amoral? Of course not. They were just people. Brave, cowardly, shy, agressive, loud, quiet, fat, thin, short, tall, regular people.

Why the revelations of this group should be special eludes me.

Thanks for the offer Rick, but the issue is not something I really care to relive.....too much happened that was bad in Vietnam, and no sense in watching this,,,,do not think it is corrupt or anything just not for me to view.

I am glad our troops were cleared of wrong doing in Iraq....just seems too many are too quick to point the finger at American Fighting Men...

Charlie

THL

those of you that were there know what happened,

this was done to let the public know. the public wasn't there. they think war is 9 to 5 with a lunch break.

i think the point the men were trying to make was whatever bad happened was encouraged by those in command, it was institutionalized by the leadership.

And my point is that war and human nature combine with very nasty results. Who is in command doesn't make much difference. I would venture that many of these events would have happened regardless of orders. These guys may have found a way to assuage their guilt via public confession and blaming command, but I think they're just masturbating in public and denying our own, sometimes ugly, nature.

I have very mixed feelings about this issue. on the one hand, as THL said, it's hard to judge those who were in a stressful situation that many if not most of us have never been in. One the other hand, being informed isn't a bad thing. Finally, I truly think that the public as a whole would probably rather go back to hearing that we've gone to war, and hear that General Umptysquat obtained an unconditional surrender without hearing all the unpleasant details of how that was accomplished. It's been said that the Vietnam War was the first fought on the six o'clock news, while Americans were eating their dinner every night. I think that watching fast movers delivering loads of napalm while trying to enjoy moms meatloaf probably had some degree of effect on the level of support the American public had for the war effort. Finally, given the overall geopolitical situation (the possibility of China getting involved directly if we had gone into North Vietnam.) This by necessity kept us in a defensive, reactionary mode, which is NOT how you win a conflict. As to whether we should have been there at all, there was the 'Domino Theory' which I STILL see vilified in some writings, but when or shortly before South Vietnam fell, Laos fell, Cambodia fell, and I MAY be wrong, but didn't Malaysia fall as well? So, other than Thailand were we still maintained a presence, all the countries 'at risk' fell, as the Domino Theory predicted. I think the curret situation has more parallels than I'm comfortable with with the former, but the choice is to allow Iraq to go the way of Post-Soviet Afghanistan.

Well said, THL. Well said.

Just think how meaningful it would have been if all the "vets" had really been vets and had all been telling the truth.

Why do liberals only believe soldiers that bash America and it's actions?

rugrunner

i asked you when you had seen this.

Wow....7 good quality posts of discussion before the word "liberal" came in.

There goes the neighborhood.

Rick,

There's another movie the is very similar to this one, and once I remember the name I'll tell you. It's in Vietnamese with English subtitles. It's a Viet film in fact and it looks at the war from the Vietnamese perspective. It's about the bad things that the Viets, French, AND Americans did. I was given a copy by a Vietnamese friend in Nha Trang a few years ago. I'll try to remember.

Adroomi, as you know, one of my pet peeves is people who only harp on one side of an issue. I have problems with Bush, but I think as bad as he is he was still a better choice than the losers that the DNC ran against him. I gripe about Bush, but I also gripe about Clinton, Kennedy, Gore, and Kerry. That's what I usually get onto you and Rick about. I also hate the Vietnamese communists for constantly bringing up American atrocities, and blithely neglecting to mention sappers swimming across Cam Ranh Bay and attacking a hospital ,and killing unarmed wounded, doctors, and nurses. They neglect to mention what they dipped their punji sticks in. They seem to forget that they executed villagers who had much of ANYTHING to do with American troops. They don't seem to have a problem with the fact the in spite of our use of napalm, and Agent Orange, they used Soviet T-10 nerve agent (Yellow Rain) against Hmong and Rhade tribesmen who helped the Americans. But the Imperialist running dog Americans are the only bad people!

CW,

Please try to re-read my post where I mention that the movie I mention is about the atrocities that WE, the FRENCH, and the VIETNAMESE all conducted.

Now I don't know how many Vietnamese friends you have, or how much time you spend there, but I have a few, and I spend a bit of time there every year. The "Imperialistic Dogs" comment you made is one that I've yet to hear from a SINGLE Vietnamese person in Saigon, Nha Trang, or anywhere I've been. I do hear them speak of the "American War" (that's what they call it there), but they really don't talk bad about Americans. That is in their past for them. After years and years of rule under a foreign flag (the french, then us) they have their country the way they want it, and are a-ok with that.

I'm not as one-sided as you seem to think I am by the way. Have you EVER read me state a SINGLE good thing about Clinton or Kerry? You have read me to post that I voted for Bush though, right? Twice in fact.

I'm for understanding....that's what I preach.

I could hardly believe my eyes in that last post...calm, collected, centered, balanced and Buddhist rationale. Particularly since CW set the ball up for a smash.

Is there a new pill on the market?

Those cubans are loaded with lithium.

I must've missed the posting where you said you voted for Bush, But I'll concede the other points as well, I didn't read the part about the Vietnamese atrocities. There were plenty on both sides of that morass.