I don't mean this to be inflamatory or become a pissing contest or a forum for hatred, but I would like an honest answer from Tey or someone else who agrees with him.

This weekend my sister got married to a man that was born in Ecuador. He had became an American citizen a while ago. I work with people who were born in Peru, England, Trinidad, Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, Guatamala, and a few other countries. All of them are here legally. Some have become citizens, some are in process and have work visas, but all of them are here legally. Unless you are native American, someone in your family was at one time an immigrant and at one time became legal.

So my question is why is it racist to want illegal immigrants to become legal? Why is taking a position agianst illegal immigration automatically equated to racism? Why can't you be for immigration (most of us wouldn't be here with out it) but be agianst ILLEGAL immigration without being called a racist?

I am asking a legitimate question with no agenda other then trying to get an answer so please keep your personal agendas out of the answers.

This question has been posed on numerous occassions.

Let's hope you have better luck.

I don't recall anyone calling that racist, and if they do, they too are foolish.

Racist is NOT telling an illegal to go home and come back the legal way.

Racist is telling Tey (an American citizen), to go back to "his" country as someone did in another thread yesterday.

Racist is telling American students that happen to be of the Muslim faith, instead of Christian, to go back to "their" country since they are a danger to America, as you can find on this forum.

I hope that helps.

I am glad you agree that calling that racist would be foolish Adroomi, but I must be reading the forums (and watching tv) wrong. I don't really have the patience to search for old quotes from old threads and figure out their context but it seems to me that anyone who has an opinion agianst illegal immigration, whether its here or they spoke out against the rallies or the legislation, has been branded a racist. I'll be honest, I don't think of myself as a racist but I had to stop and think about my opinion (I am for immigration but against illegal immigration) and if it wasn't slanted. The way this issue is being portrayed here and in the media if your not in full support of immigrants rights, you are racist.

"Racist is telling American students that happen to be of the Muslim faith, instead of Christian, to go back to "their" country since they are a danger to America, as you can find on this forum. "

really? racist = religious intolerance? man, you learn something new everyday.

No lofty.....but telling someone that they are NOT an American since they are Muslim "go back to YOUR country" is racism.

yeah, i still don't follow you. muslim is not a race. christianity is not a race. religious intolerance and xenophobia can describe the scenario of which you speak, but it's clearly not racism.

You're right, being a Muslim is not a race.....

However, when ALL people that are of the Muslim faith are generalized as terrorists, and from the Middle East, it now becomes a hatred against not a religion, but a group of people from a certain location, and of a certain appearance. THAT is racism.

Most folks on this board don't even realize that most Muslims are NOT from the middle east, and in fact a great majority of them are from China.

In fact most folks on this board couldn't find the middle east on a map, let alone China, indonesia, or the next state over.

Hating someone because one ASSUMES they are a middle eastern terrorist because they are in fact a muslim is racism.

M. Ravioli,

I can tell you why its racism and yes I called it that!

When you read something illogical, you have to question the motive to get to the real reasoning. An example; a house is burning—a man walks up, who is not a fireman nor does he have any water and asks “ was this house built by illegal aliens?”

You want to curb illegal immigration; make it tough for them to find work. End of story. Instead, you hear excuses such as ‘well the forgeries were damn good’. Wait a minute; the guy spoke no English, and was willing to work below the minimum wage—he must be legal! Hypocrisy like that makes one question. We have an appalling history in this country of using slave labor, from nearly all other races! And that’s like a convicted sex offender, he doesn’t have to be in the playground for the alarms to go off.

Even in your own statements, the naivety is apparent. You speak of working with all races that are legal. Give me a break. Go to any Chinese restaurant in the northeast and yell INS, you will be dining by yourself. Or the millions of Polish and eastern block illegals that are here. Ask someone from NJ.

So, without comprehending the landscape you have an opinion and one has to question what is that emotion being driven by?

So oldtimer, I am a racist and the landscape should dictate if laws are enforced or not?

It is not racist to want them to immigrate legally. Not at all.

What becomes racist is some of the language and arguments used to support that statement. The argument seems to become very emotional when it doesn't need to.

Legal or not. Right or wrong. Not legal = wrong. Legal = right.

However some supporting the not legal = wrong cross the line well into the racist or at least nonsensical stereotype category. Their premise is correct, their delivery is sad.

keep in mind, though, that it goes both ways. people like to assume it's a bunch of racist white americans that don't like illegal immigration. that, itself, is racism. it's an overused word. i don't much care for it, but if it's going to be used, i think it should be used very carefully. too many people throw it around, and it's starting to lose its meaning.

I don't think I was emotional or used any unnecessary language and oldtimer called my opinion racist. He knows nothing about me other then the few posts I make here. Its a slow day for me today and I probably made more posts today then in my whole history here.

There you go Adroomi, there are people out there (and in here) to whom if you are white and are against illegal immigration - you are racist.

agreed lofty. its not one way.

I used to be more of a Machivellian (the end justifys the means) but have changed quite a bit in the last few years.

Most issues are not resolved quickly and your actions along the path do make a difference. Both sides could stand down the rhetoric quite a bit.

This place is an interesting microcasm of the political landscape out there (although somewhat skewed). I enjoy the debate in here, even when it goes to far.

"Both sides could stand down the rhetoric quite a bit. "

i think that applies to just about every political issue. i, too, like the discussions as long as they continue to reveal new information that provokes more thought on the issues. the rhetoric gets old, and the two sides get nowhere when that's all they use.

I don't think it's racist to want illegal immigrants to become legal, if thats all you truly want. A minefield does not help people become legal just as a "drug war" doesn't keep people away from drugs. The thing I hear come up more times than most is that people have a problem with hispanic immigrants not acting "american" enough. Where in the rulebook does it say that I have to erase my cultural identity to fit into the social fabric? And it's not the "American" social fabric but the eurocentric social fabric.

I was briefly smoking a cigar with a gentleman who shared with me a conversation he had with his doctor. He told this doctor that if he didn't speak english to get the fu*k outta his country. I then kindly had him escorted outta the store. Because it may be his country but it's my neighborhood.

mikey,

That’s not what I said.

I will elaborate, you have a problem with illegal immigrants without having all the facts and you think the problem lies squarely and solely with the beaners, you might be influenced by factors other than fact. So how would you describe those emotions?

Moreover, you are conveniently willing to ignore the cause and the true culprits. Even in illegal prostitution, (where arguably there is a coexistence)we equally arraign both Jon and hooker.

On this board all I read is what a big problem hookers have become. From people who have no earthly concept of interdependencies and shared ecology.

As per are you a racist…I have no idea. But for someone from NY you seem to overlook how many illegals there are, right under your nose. And you claim only to know legals. Do you really believe that the cabbie or the polish plumber or the gas station attendant in long island; a) could afford the fees b) would they still be doing those jobs if they were legal. There is a legal quota in this country approx 100,000 for non-technical immigrants. That accounts for 1 in a 1000 Mexicans here alone.

I am against the illegals, but don’t understand the root of the emotions that some harbor against them.

Tey;

Its important to assimilate, otherwise you cant blame folks for treating you as outsiders. And that is why no one has had a problem with all other races of immigrants, like the Chinese, Germans, Italians and so on. Its not that you should give up your identity, but wanting to act Chicano in Rome will arouse scorn. And some would argue that latinos want whitey to give up their identity. I.e. I go to a Mexican joint I expect the menu to be in Spanish, but not at MacDonald’s

And go to a gringo doctor man...somethings in life you can never risk.

I don't expect anyone to erase their cultural identity. I still keep to some old school Italian traditions that I learned when I grew up from my grandparents. But, I do consider myself an America of Italian descent. I am an American first and what traditions I follow in my home are my business. I have defined my version of "my America" and I expect others to do the same. Its only natural to assume that people from different parts of the world are going to come up with different versions of "their America". I think the problem is when people try to carve out little sections of their home country here and refuse to accept much less embrace any Americanization. Refusing to learn English (regardless of what your home language is, not just spanish) just excludes you and keeps you seperate from a large part of the american experience and limits your opportunity.

My problem with illegal immigration is not specific to one race or nationality but more of a lack of security issue. I accept that there is some need in our economy for illegal immigrants. I would never expect the guy washing dishes at the chinese take out or the guy picking lettuce to be legal, but its out of control.

I never said I only haqd a problem with beaners.

I do think that companies that hire illegals shouls be prosecuted.

I do understand the need for illegal immigrants in our economy.

My problem is that as soon as a white guy speaks out against illegal immigration, or immigrants refusal to learn english or accept any traditional american culture, all the while expecting the full resources of this country to be at their disposal, they are labelled rascist.

Right said mikey!

Its out of control because of business exploiting them. And I agree if you take exception, as I do, to them not making an effort to preserve America. This is indeed a monumental problem. However, not one caused by the illiterates crossing the border but those flooding our country with illiterates.

Business is not just bringing them in but also catering to them; like my bank BofA…the default language on the atm screen is Spanish!