opelmanta1900
9 years ago
how the **** did these guys ever get permitted to be where they are?

abcnews.go.com/US/risk-chemical-plant-explosion-houston-prompts-evacuation-harvey/story?id=49521170

Arkema's CEO said Wednesday that there is "no way to prevent" a possible explosion at the company's Crosby, Texas, facility, which has been heavily flooded as a result of Hurricane Harvey.

“We have an unprecedented 6 feet of water at the plant,” Arkema President and CEO Rich Rowe said in comments made Wednesday. “We have lost primary power and two sources of emergency backup power.

"As a result, we have lost critical refrigeration of the materials on site that could now explode and cause a subsequent intense fire. The high water and lack of power leave us with no way to prevent it," he said.

Rowe added: "We have evacuated our personnel for their own safety. The federal, state and local authorities were contacted a few days ago, and we are working very closely with them to manage this matter. They have ordered the surrounding community to be evacuated, too."

Residents within a 1.5-mile radius of the facility, which is near Houston, have been told to leave, according to the Harris County Fire Marshal's Office.

Rep. Ted Poe, R-Texas, who represents the district that includes the chemical plant, called the situation "very dangerous."

"The worst-case scenario is that this chemical plant could explode," he told ABC News.

The site has experienced torrential rains from Harvey, "receiving approximately 40 inches by Monday afternoon," the company said in a statement Tuesday evening.

The Environmental Protection Agency is supporting local agencies in dealing with the situation.

"We are aware of the situation and are working with TCEQ, who is the lead in this situation, to support them and other state and local officials to mitigate risk to human health or the environment," an EPA spokesperson said in a statement.

The U.S. Chemical Safety Board -- the federal agency that investigates and helps clean up chemical accidents -- also said it was aware of the situation.

"The CSB is aware of the situation through news reports. We don’t have any other information other than what we are gathering from news reports. We are prepared to deploy to any incident that might result from Hurricane Harvey."
Whistlebritches
9 years ago
Do you know how many chemical plants are in and around Houston?Didn't think so
opelmanta1900
9 years ago
Oh, well then, it's a genius idea... don't know what i was thinking... nevermind... if there's a lot of them, then obviously it's smart... thanks for clearing that up Ron...
TMCTLT
9 years ago
So...Joel with all your wisdom, why / HOW were these individuals that your bashing suppose to have known that a 500-1000 year flood ( which is what this is being referred to ) was going to happen and therefor could have / should have been able to prevent this from happening?????? Enlighten us please....

Because I've read a few articles that have said this flooding is occurring because of a change of the terrain brought about by development.

http://wikiurls.com/?https://apnews.com/5b28b342061344d7ad6e7395a56e7cce 
DrafterX
9 years ago
Heard a dude on the news asking why they didn't just neutralize the chemicals... Like there's a a magic solution in an eye-dropper or somethin they add to stabilize it... 😟
opelmanta1900
9 years ago

Heard a dude on the news asking why they didn't just neutralize the chemicals... Like there's a a magic solution in an eye-dropper or somethin they add to stabilize it... 😟

DrafterX wrote:


At the very least they could've added some anti explosion juice... sheesh....
opelmanta1900
9 years ago

So...Joel with all your wisdom, why / HOW were these individuals that your bashing suppose to have known that a 500-1000 year flood ( which is what this is being referred to ) was going to happen and therefor could have / should have been able to prevent this from happening?????? Enlighten us please....

Because I've read a few articles that have said this flooding is occurring because of a change of the terrain brought about by development.

http://wikiurls.com/?https://apnews.com/5b28b342061344d7ad6e7395a56e7cce 

TMCTLT wrote:



Individuals I was bashing? You mean the permit office people?
TMCTLT
9 years ago

Individuals I was bashing? You mean the permit office people?

opelmanta1900 wrote:




Oh brother...... 🤦

Yeah, that's who you were talking about clearly. 🤥


If indeed that was your meaning, a little properly worded sentence goes a long way bros.

ie: How did this chemical plant ever get a building permit to build where they are?

yes?
tailgater
9 years ago
Well, sir. We can't give you a permit to build.
Nope.
Because if a situation occurs that has never happened before, you might not be able to prevent an explosion.

I mean, we can't give every Tom, ****** and Harry a permit to build a building that *might* explode should two tornadoes touch down on it at the same time during an earthquake at full moon with the temperature below zero. Sure, it's unlikely. But it's not impossible.
And that's what we permit inspectors are here for: to predict the unpredictable.

You're welcome.


opelmanta1900
9 years ago
Unpredictable? I can't tell if you're funny or stupid... either way, you should read the companies "prediction" of what would happen in this situation...
tailgater
9 years ago


Do you feel the same contempt for the individual home owner who didn't shell out the $50 annually for flood insurance?
No?
Oh, wait. They're not an evil corporation.


tailgater
9 years ago
More to the point:
The company stores organic compounds that require refrigeration, else there is a chemical reaction and explosion.
They use electrical power to create this refrigeration.
If the primary source (the town power) is interrupted, they have a backup source.
If this backup source is interrupted, they have ANOTHER backup source.

Not sure how many redundancies you'd require?
But sometimes the term "unprecedented" means something.





opelmanta1900
9 years ago
I feel no contempt for the factory owner either... i come from industry... I've served as a point of contact between the industry and government regulatory agencies... you do what they let you do... often times the government bogs you down with so much red tape, when they let you get away with something, you get away with it as quick as you can...

But i read the worst "plausible" case scenario that this plant drafted, and I'm still surprised they were allowed to operate the way they were with the action plan they had in place...

opelmanta1900
9 years ago

More to the point:
The company stores organic compounds that require refrigeration, else there is a chemical reaction and explosion.
They use electrical power to create this refrigeration.
If the primary source (the town power) is interrupted, they have a backup source.
If this backup source is interrupted, they have ANOTHER backup source.

Not sure how many redundancies you'd require?
But sometimes the term "unprecedented" means something.





tailgater wrote:


They had 2 back up sources that weren't protected above the 6' flood mark... when a company's worst case scenario looks like this company's, where loss of power equals total loss of control and catastrophic results, you would expect redundancies somewhere to the effect of "if power source A fails due to catastrophic flooding, power source B would not fail because fill in the blank"...

Not claiming to be an expert... just expressing a real sense of shock...
TMCTLT
9 years ago

Do you feel the same contempt for the individual home owner who didn't shell out the $50 annually for flood insurance?
No?
Oh, wait. They're not an evil corporation.


tailgater wrote:





Or the dumb sonsabitches who lost a coastal home to a hurricane.....only to rebuild it.
opelmanta1900
9 years ago
www.chron.com/business/columnists/tomlinson/article/Harvey-reveals-corporate-hubris-regarding-safety-12164662.php

Richard Rennard, the president of Arkema, shrugged his shoulders when asked what more his company could have done to prevent chemicals from burning at his plant in Crosby.
He rattled off the systems his company employed to chill the organic peroxides: Grid power, back-up generators, nitrogen coolers and ultimately refrigerated trailers. On Thursday the refrigerator systems began shutting down and the peroxides began burning and blowing the lids off their containers.


After the disaster at the ****ushima nuclear power plant in Japan, every facility with dangerous materials should know to keep back-up generators above any potential flood line. Yet that precaution escaped Arkema.

Rennard's fatalism in the face of a natural disaster is disingenuous. Experts identified the plant as high-risk, and Arkema could have designed a more resilient facility. But it didn't, most likely because management considered the risk too low and the costs too high.

We know this because the Houston Chronicle identified Arkema as a potentially dangerous plant in an award-winning 2016 investigative series called "Chemical Breakdown." In response to my colleague Matt Dempsey's inquiries about safety, plant manager Wendal Turley assured the newspaper that every precaution had been taken.

"The safety of our workforce and community are paramount in everything we do. We take our commitment to safe operations and compliance with federal and state regulations very seriously," Turley wrote. "We regularly meet with our community and local officials and strive to be a good neighbor at all times."

Arkema executives told their neighbors to flee their homes this week. No one is explaining why Arkema didn't simply dilute the peroxides, which would have ruined them, but at least would have prevented the fires and explosions.

Rennard's refusal to take responsibility for what's happening at his plant is sadly typical. Yet when reporters like Dempsey or neighborhood groups come asking questions, refinery and petrochemical executives become indignant, insisting that outsiders are too ignorant of chemistry and therefore misunderstand the risk.

In public statement after public statement, companies working with hazardous materials or processes in Houston declare that their engineers have anticipated every eventuality, that the public has nothing to fear. Go away, they say, nothing to see here.

Yet since Hurricane Harvey struck, Houston area companies have filed 32 air emission event reports with the Texas Commission for Environmental Quality. The Coast Guard's National Response Center has listed chemical or gas leaks in at least 20 locations in Greater Houston.

Those executives are also shrugging their shoulders, rhetorically asking, "What can you do? Stuff happens."

For example, a pipeline owned by Oklahoma's Williams Cos. leaked anhydrous hydrogen chloride, a corrosive and poisonous gas, in La Porte on Monday. "Williams will review the incident to determine its cause," the company said in a terse statement.

A roof collapse triggered the release of more than 12,000 pounds of potentially toxic chemical compounds at an ExxonMobil facility in Baytown. "This is an unprecedented storm, and we have taken every effort to minimize emissions," Exxon spokeswoman Charlotte Huffaker said.

The National Response Center's log of spills and emissions, by the way, hasn't been updated since Sunday.

Far more polluting than leaks, though, is the shutdown and start-up process at refineries and petrochemical plants. Two million pounds of dangerous chemicals were released in Houston when they shut down between Monday and Wednesday. More has been released since then, and millions more will be released when the plants restart.

Only 5.2 million pounds of emissions were reported in all of 2016. None of these companies are volunteering to reduce emissions by improving their facilities.

Adding to the frustration is the mealy-mouthed language that Rennard and his ilk spew when their companies are forced fess up to their failures.

In Rennard's world, compounds don't burn, they degrade. Chemicals don't explode, they combust. The smoke is noxious, but he won't say if it is toxic.

This may be appropriate in a chemistry class, but a concerned public expects straight talk, which it's not getting.
If we learn nothing else from Harvey, let it be the danger of hubris. Despite claims to the contrary, executives will decide that mitigating a risk costs too much, and subsequent events will prove that they made a horrible mistake.

That's why regulators, journalists and citizen groups have a role to play in demanding accountability and revealing the risks taken. Because when it comes to chemicals, the public shares in the consequences of a bad decision and often pays the highest price.

Let's be honest, Harvey is not causing accidents. The storm is revealing the risks executives willingly took. No one has the right to shrug their shoulders and say, "C'est la vie."
dstieger
9 years ago

Or the dumb sonsabitches who lost a coastal home to a hurricane.....only to rebuild it.

TMCTLT wrote:



Doesn't sound all that dumb to me...as long as we keep willingly paying for it
jjanecka
9 years ago
Opel, you sound like a red tape socialist. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. If I wanna drop eleven tons of caustic on the river. I ought to be able; it's my right as a 'Merican!
opelmanta1900
9 years ago

Opel, you sound like a red tape socialist. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. If I wanna drop eleven tons of caustic on the river. I ought to be able; it's my right as a 'Merican!

jjanecka wrote:


Tex-a-murican!
Speyside
9 years ago
So Opel, did you post this just to stir up Joe, or did you have anyone else in mind?
Users browsing this topic