opelmanta1900
9 years ago
Read about that this morning... made me livid... the cop isn't even suspended.... he should be rotting in a dark box...
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Buckwheat
9 years ago

Read about that this morning... made me livid... the cop isn't even suspended.... he should be rotting in a dark box...

opelmanta1900 wrote:



+1
I'm sure this will end up costing the police force a ton of $'s. [ram27bat]
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MACS
9 years ago
She'll sue for unlawful arrest/detention and win.

She was in the right, the officer was in the wrong... and he knows it.
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danmdevries
9 years ago
I don't think there's anyone that can argue the cops side in this one.

We hold patient privacy above all. We have to. One mistake and we can no longer work in anything remotely related to healthcare. It's heavily enforced. Besides, that evidence collected would be inadmissible.

Get a court order and I'll take care of it. I used to work in ED. The officers would obtain warrants fairly quickly at all hours. Once the warrant was received, the attending would write and sign an order notating court order, and I would collect the sample witnessed and double signed with chain of custody form which everyone that handled the sample would sign. Once the test was complete, again all hand delivered and chain of custody form maintained.
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delta1
9 years ago
Would've taken less than an hour to write up a probable cause affidavit and get an on-duty judge to sign a warrant...
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opelmanta1900
9 years ago
The cop actually admitted on camera that he didn't have probable cause...
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Abrignac
9 years ago
Before everyone gets butthurt it would be prudent to know why a warrant may not have been required.

Brigham City v. Stuart, 547 U.S. 398 (2006), is a United States Supreme Court case involving the exigent circumstances exception to the Fourth Amendment's warrant requirement. The Court ruled that police may enter a home without a warrant if they have an objectively reasonable basis for believing that an occupant is or is about to be seriously injured



So before anyone Monday morning quarterbacks this a question needs to be addressed. Did the officer have a reasonable belief that exigent circumstances existed? If so, he did nothing wrong. With the limited information available, it's impossible to determine how this will end.

The SCOTUS has carved out 6 (I think) situations where a warrant isn't needed to collect evidence.

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opelmanta1900
9 years ago
2016 SCOTUS ruled there were no circumstances that existed wherein a patient's blood could be drawn without either A) consent or 😎 a warrant...
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Abrignac
9 years ago

2016 SCOTUS ruled there were no circumstances that existed wherein a patient's blood could be drawn without either A) consent or 😎 a warrant...

opelmanta1900 wrote:



What case? BIRCHFIELD vs. NORTH DAKOTA. If so that case blocked the use of implied consent as a basis for collecting blood. That case did not, invalidate an exception based on exigent circumstances.

The reason exigent circumstances may be at play is the rate at which substances degrade with time. Case in point is alcohol. The body metabolizes alcohol fairly quickly. Waiting to get a warrant could cause evidence to be lost.

Not by any means am I saying the officer is right. Just saying. "Standby to standby."
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Abrignac
9 years ago

In instances where blood tests might be preferable-e.g.,where substances other than alcohol impair the driver’s ability to operate a car safely, or where the subject is unconscious—nothing prevents the police from seeking a warrant or from relying on the exigent circumstances exception if it applies.

BIRCHFIELD v. NORTH DAKOTA wrote:

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MACS
9 years ago
I can see the exigency in this case... since someone was killed.

I'm not going to lie, though... that whole scenario was handled badly by the officer. Arresting a woman for following her employers rules is foolish. He was pissed because she willfully disobeyed him.
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opelmanta1900
9 years ago
I think 2013 scotus case mcneely (?) They ruled that dissipation of alcohol or drugs from an individual's system did not qualify as exigent circumstances, seeing as how electronic application for warrants in this day and age means a warrant can be issued much quicker than alcohol disappears from the blood...
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jespear
  • jespear
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
9 years ago
Right or Wrong, (and THAT could be argued all the way to the Supreme Court), the officer was WAY over the line.

Thanx for your comments.
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Abrignac
9 years ago

I think 2013 scotus case mcneely (?) They ruled that dissipation of alcohol or drugs from an individual's system did not qualify as exigent circumstances, seeing as how electronic application for warrants in this day and age means a warrant can be issued much quicker than alcohol disappears from the blood...

opelmanta1900 wrote:




My previous post is copied and pasted from the SCOTUS decision. Here is the theory behind that statement. A blood test is much more invasive than a breath test. Absent consent, a warrant may be needed. So a breath test is preferable. In this case, the subject was unable to give consent. Since consent wasn't an option, it becomes a judgement call on the officer's part.


Right or Wrong, (and THAT could be argued all the way to the Supreme Court), the officer was WAY over the line.

jespear wrote:



At face value I would say you might be correct. But, as is ALWAYS the case, there was a lead up before anyone felt the need to begin videoing the incident. Without knowing that, it's impossible to cast judgement on the end result.

I'm sure there is much more to this story. The officer who arrested the nurse was a detective. I'd venture to say he was far from a rookie. My guess is he has had plenty of experience working with ED staff at this hospital. I'm sure arresting a nurse was certainly not preferred. Before making a knee jerk reaction, I'd like to know the ENTIRE story.
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Abrignac
9 years ago

https://bluelivesmatter.blue/salt-lake-nurse-arrest-video/

More info...

MACS wrote:



Unless the investigation has concluded, the reports locked and not publicly available then this article is nothing but speculation. There is nothing in the article that isn't in the video. Had the author(s) of the article read the official case file then they would have used data in that file to give credence to article. They did not.

This then brings about the possibility that it is an article written based on one person's experience. If that person worked for an agency who's policy was that no blood could be drawn without a warrant, then the article is biased based on a higher standard than the SCOTUS requires.
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Ewok126
9 years ago
Well crap my day was going well until I seen this. No matter even if there is extenuating circumstances there are still rules and laws and procedures in place to obtain what was needed by the officer. This is not coming in to ones home this is breaking patient rights and yes even murders and prisoners as a patient has these rights. The officer was trying to break FEDERAL law because of his ignorance. The nurse was not only following her hospital policy but federal policy and law. Unless a warrant is in hand by federal law the officer has absolutely no rights to any thing of that patient per again by FEDERAL LAW. If the nurse had given what he officer was asking for that nurse could not only have lost her job and career in any aspect of the medical field but also a 25k fine and I think its 5 years maybe 10 years in prison and that would be (PER INFRACTION) Her credentials would have basically been ripped from her and trashed. All the years of education would have been for ****. I have had to stand beside prisoners that was a patient at the time and they get the exact same treatment and rights as anyone else. In my mind that officer is a disgrace to the law enforcement profession just because he didnt care enough about his own profession to know the law. At least know it well enough to show up with the correct papers to get what was needed instead of busting down on some nurse for doing her job. Like she is going to say HEY TODAY I THINK I WILL TRY TO IMPEDE THE LAW because I AM A BITCH AND HATE MY LIFE. WTF!!!!!

Supreme Court Rules Cops Need A Warrant For Blood Test even for drunk driving that was 06/23/2016
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Gene363
9 years ago
Another community, i.e., the taxpayers, are going to pay big bucks for taking the cheap route when hiring police officers.
The escape pod: https://cigarbid.freeforums.net 
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Abrignac
9 years ago

Well crap my day was going well until I seen this. No matter even if there is extenuating circumstances there are still rules and laws and procedures in place to obtain what was needed by the officer. This is not coming in to ones home this is breaking patient rights and yes even murders and prisoners as a patient has these rights. The officer was trying to break FEDERAL law because of his ignorance. The nurse was not only following her hospital policy but federal policy and law. Unless a warrant is in hand by federal law the officer has absolutely no rights to any thing of that patient per again by FEDERAL LAW. If the nurse had given what he officer was asking for that nurse could not only have lost her job and career in any aspect of the medical field but also a 25k fine and I think its 5 years maybe 10 years in prison and that would be (PER INFRACTION) Her credentials would have basically been ripped from her and trashed. All the years of education would have been for ****. I have had to stand beside prisoners that was a patient at the time and they get the exact same treatment and rights as anyone else. In my mind that officer is a disgrace to the law enforcement profession just because he didnt care enough about his own profession to know the law. At least know it well enough to show up with the correct papers to get what was needed instead of busting down on some nurse for doing her job. Like she is going to say HEY TODAY I THINK I WILL TRY TO IMPEDE THE LAW because I AM A BITCH AND HATE MY LIFE. WTF!!!!!

Supreme Court Rules Cops Need A Warrant For Blood Test even for drunk driving that was 06/23/2016

Ewok126 wrote:




Actually the nurse wasn't asked to draw a sample. The officer is a trained phlebotomist. Apparently she was trying to prevent the officer from drawing the sample.

As far as Federal Law, the Supreme Court has carved it 7 exceptions where a warrant isn't needed. The case you cite is the same case I cited above. Look back at one of the quotes I posted above. Read it carefully because is is word for word from the case you mention. In that quote the Supreme Court said that exigent circumstances can still justify collecting blood without a warrant.
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