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7 years ago
... this is going to great!
frankj1
7 years ago
fact checkers have been easily blowing up most of his pre-game stats...but maybe he will change the script. He has been given enough lead time to clean up the lies, hope he's smart enough to take advantage of that.

however, if he declares Emergency and diverts military building funds to the stupid wall, it could end the shutdown.
strange way to get credit.
tailgater
7 years ago
I'm on the record as being anti-wall.
Just enforce existing laws and make the free-loaders go home or starve. Cold hearted maybe, but I have no patience for thieves.
Also increase the penalty for those who hire the illegals.


With that said, it's funny how so many on the left, including some on these boards, were so vocal about Trump failing to build the wall and seeing it as yet another campaign lie.
Now that he's going above and beyond reason to fund it those same people are complaining and ridiculing him.

Like I said: Funny.







frankj1
7 years ago

I'm on the record as being anti-wall.
Just enforce existing laws and make the free-loaders go home or starve. Cold hearted maybe, but I have no patience for thieves.
Also increase the penalty for those who hire the illegals.


With that said, it's funny how so many on the left, including some on these boards, were so vocal about Trump failing to build the wall and seeing it as yet another campaign lie.
Now that he's going above and beyond reason to fund it those same people are complaining and ridiculing him.

Like I said: Funny.







tailgater wrote:


it's too easy to win a debate when you get to speak for the other side.
His failure to build a wall (so far) is a victory. The lie is in who will pay for it...and the need for it, as you already agree.
frankj1
7 years ago
the whole "show" was an uncomfortable snooze fest
vebswb
7 years ago
Sorry to be off topic but I won my bids and Tuesday is my ship day. Do they automatically charge and ship since they have my info?
opelmanta1900
7 years ago
First of all vagweb, no apologies necessary... Second, Frank wants to speak to you... Lastly, kingofthecove can send you to the perfect person to answer that question...
frankj1
7 years ago
Joel, do me a favor and handle this one.
ZRX1200
7 years ago
His speech was great
opelmanta1900
7 years ago
Here's the deal vegemite... You joined up with us nearly 2 years ago... You disappear without a peep... Then you show up and threadjack a politic thread without so much as an apology... Frank and your mother have lost sleep - SLEEP - young man...

Call Frank and then your mom and tell them you're sorry... And I don't think Horst is awake, so pm jaderose about your original question...
opelmanta1900
7 years ago

His speech was great

ZRX1200 wrote:


Thanks... Very prophetic of you...
Speyside
7 years ago
Joel, pretty good. You almost sound like a member of the tribe. A little work on the kvetching and you are there.
tailgater
7 years ago

it's too easy to win a debate when you get to speak for the other side.
His failure to build a wall (so far) is a victory. The lie is in who will pay for it...and the need for it, as you already agree.

frankj1 wrote:




If remembering what people said 12 and 18 months ago and contrasting it with what they say today is "speaking for the other side" then yeah, that's what I'm doing.

](*,)

dstieger
7 years ago
At some point, citizens from the left and citizens who support Trump are going to look at each other and realize that all those fools....President AND Congressmen and women.....that all of them are so full of chit....that everything about the wall and the shutdown and budget impasse are about nothing other than politics with little regard for our welfare and future. Hard to believe that fans on both sides remain dug in. My biggest hope is that both sides get damaged enough in these stupid political skirmishes that they open the door just a crack for a third party....
DrafterX
7 years ago
We've got to stop all this 'irregular migration'.... 😟
frankj1
7 years ago

If remembering what people said 12 and 18 months ago and contrasting it with what they say today is "speaking for the other side" then yeah, that's what I'm doing.

](*,)

tailgater wrote:


can't recall the lib's saying he's a liar because he didn't build the wall.
doesn't even make sense.
you'd think they'd be joyful that he had failed to that point.

For a zillion other things, certainly, they called (and call) him a liar.
delta1
7 years ago
apologies for my laziness...this is a cut and paste post from another topic, but can be shoehorned in to fit, somewhat, here...


yeah...all three showed us how low the talent level has fallen among our nation's leaders...don't forget the POTUS's lack of conviction amid his litany of lies while trying to make a case for ........did he even say the "wall"?

the "best deal maker" didn't even look like he believed what he was saying, staring at the teleprompters like that was the first time he had seen those words...that's the scariest takeaway from that public spectacle...this was his signature promise from the beginning of his campaign...and he couldn't muster the energy to make a compelling case, prolly because he knows the "crisis at the border" is a made up story, a hoax, fake news...

the POTUS is the most important of the three clown circus last night...now we know why he avoids prime time addresses to the union...he seems most comfortable doing campaign rallies where his followers cheer whatever stuff he makes up...that unfortunately is not part of the POTUS job description...

delta1 wrote:



dstieger
7 years ago
You're forgiven....I've got a cut and paste, too. I thought this was as good of a current assessment as I've read anywhere....except for trying to have fun with the national emergency stuff....I'm kinda tired of any of the media reports that get up an arms about crap the president may or may not have considered, asked about, thought, said in private, even threatened.....I really don't gaf if he asked someone in his legal team if he could cut off someone's head....let me know when he actually does (or orders done) the stupid chit....
==================

"Well, that was the shortest, most easily resolved national emergency in U.S. history. Twelve hours ago, the president was preparing to set aside the regular process of law. By 9 p.m. Eastern Time? Not so much.

Perhaps somebody pointed out that 15-year-long civil-engineering projects do not look very convincingly like emergency measures. “My house is burning! Time to begin the process of calling for design proposals for a new fire station.”

President Trump is about to discover the reverse side of Richard Neustadt’s famous observation that the most important presidential power is the power to persuade. Trump’s conduct as candidate and president long ago deprived him of any power to persuade anyone not already predisposed to support him. To date, Trump has governed by leveraging his high approval rating within the Republican Party. From the point of view of former Speaker Paul Ryan and Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, Trump’s 90 percent approval rating among Republicans mattered a lot more than his 39 percent approval among Americans in general.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is not susceptible to that “majority of the minority” logic. What she has to worry about is Trump’s strength among Democratic-leaning voters. That strength, Trump squandered long ago.

There is a real immigration problem on the border. Central American migrants have figured out that by showing up at the border in family units, they will be admitted into the country pending the adjudication of an asylum claim. The asylum system is overwhelmed, adjudications take months or years—and long before then, the would-be migrants can vanish into the U.S. labor market. Few Central Americans prevail in their asylum claims. Almost all end up staying, anyway.

The solution to that problem is not a lengthy process of design, tendering, land expropriation, grading, and construction. The solution is to get more adjudicators into the asylum system now. If cases are resolved fast, and border-crossers removed promptly, the surge of asylum seekers will abate, as it abated in 2015 after the Obama administration cracked down on the 2014 Central American border surge.

But Trump has never wanted a solution. He has wanted a divisive issue and a personal monument. Futile though that monument may be, he could have gotten it, too, had he been willing to trade something attractive to Democrats. But Trump was never willing to bargain. Senate Republicans would not let him: They saw no point in the border wall and were unwilling to barter for it.

More fatefully though, Trump’s vision of leadership allows no room for bartering. He imagines the presidency to operate on the principle: “I command, you obey.” More even than his wall, he wanted to coerce the Democrats into a surrender by the sheer force of his mighty will. Except Trump did not have the clout to achieve that.

“Leverage: don’t make deals without it.” The words appeared under Donald Trump’s byline on page 55 of the 1987 bestseller, The Art of the Deal. Trump did not write them, and he seems not to have understood how to apply them. In this budget shutdown, Trump discarded his leverage from the very start, by declaring for the cameras that the budget shutdown was his decision, his responsibility. When the shutdown began to hurt, Trump and his surrogates hastily tried to transfer the onus—but it was too late. Everybody knew it was Trump’s doing, and that it was done for reasons rejected by large majorities of Americans.

The idea of invoking “emergency powers” was a last grasp for the leverage Trump had already abdicated, and it had to be abandoned for fear of what the courts and public opinion would say.

After the January 8 Oval Office address, there remains little doubt how this shutdown will end. Sooner or later—probably sooner—it will end the way Trump’s threats of nuclear war upon North Korea ended: with a sudden Trump about-face. It is now only a matter of time. The polls will arrive over the next hours. Democrats and Republicans will both see that Trump did not move public opinion in his favor. They may see that Trump could not even motivate very many Americans to watch him. The panic slowly building among congressional Republicans will boil. Trump, trapped without a decent exit in a predicament of his own making, will yield everything and get nothing.

Trump will cope by locking himself into the Fox News closed-feedback system of flattering disinformation, emerging only to emit enraged tweets pretending he won big and denouncing the media for reporting otherwise. He may even convince himself to believe it. His political allies will repeat it without believing it.

But he will have lost. Lost humiliatingly. And he will have done it almost entirely to himself, before the amazed eyes of the opponents who, dumbfounded, watched him do it to himself, without a plan or even much of a reason, other than the empty and fleeting joy of feeling briefly powerful by inflicting pain."

The Atlantic; David Frum
frankj1
7 years ago
anyway...

as a person who believes in language determining/defining/limiting thought and reality and not the other way around...
I'm finding it interesting that the "wall" word is being minimized in recent weeks.
I'm guessing on purpose... soft, subtle easing away.

I've noticed a shift toward the more widely accepted "border security"...
dstieger
7 years ago
art of the deal.....similar to the author above describing.....Trump can call it something else now....dems can give him something as long as it isn't a 'wall'....and later Trump can declare victory and claim he got his wall....its all a fn game ....to all of them
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