HockeyDad
5 years ago
California announced today that all state workers and health care workers will need to verify they've been vaccinated against the coronavirus or undergo regular testing. If they remain unvaccinated, they will be subject to testing at least once a week.

The government is also encouraging local governments and businesses to adopt the same requirement.

Speyside
5 years ago
I'm fine with businesses doing that, it's their right. Since all government is paid for by tax dollars and roughly 1/2 of Americans are unvaccinated I assume roughly 1/2 of Americans are against vaccination. So I am not fine with government doing this. Unless there is an absolute need to, say the portions of the VA where high risk category patients are. So this would be a VERY limited basis.
Brewha
5 years ago
Let’s see, the far right pushes kill universal healthcare, not wear masks, don’t get vaccinated and to put a gun in the hand of everyone who wants one.


Ah, making America great….


Who looks like they hate America now beotch?
tailgater
5 years ago
I'll be in CA in a couple weeks and won't be looking forward to the big brother posturing.

ZRX1200
5 years ago
Brewha maybe instead of railing against the right you should justify the position of a majority party choice in a far left wacko state.

California deserves California.

Stay TF IN CALIFORNIA. No leaving. Transplants don’t vote for 10 years and pay a 3,000% tax
HockeyDad
5 years ago

I'll be in CA in a couple weeks and won't be looking forward to the big brother posturing.

tailgater wrote:



If you’re in San Francisco I can find you some good bar recommendations.
ZRX1200
5 years ago
My hippie dippy cousin has had it, she’s leaving SF to move back to Vancouver WA.

I’m talking Burning man hippie dippy…….
HockeyDad
5 years ago

My hippie dippy cousin has had it, she’s leaving SF to move back to Vancouver WA.

I’m talking Burning man hippie dippy…….

ZRX1200 wrote:



Still plenty of hippies in SF. They hate people like me….Silicon Valley techies!
ZRX1200
5 years ago
She hates the 1% property owner in town not you interlopers.
RayR
5 years ago

Brewha maybe instead of railing against the right you should justify the position of a majority party choice in a far left wacko state.

ZRX1200 wrote:



Brewha always rails against the "far right", That's a crypto commie catchphrase he learned on CNN, meaning anybody who is against socialism and the dicktates of the central planners. I could be wrong but I'm not.

bgz
  • bgz
  • Herf-A-Holic
5 years ago
Man... you guys are making me scared to go to Disneyland...

F*ck this thread... Let me go turn on some Freddy Kreuger or some sh*t so I can sleep.
HockeyDad
5 years ago
Go to Disneyland.

If it makes you feel any better California is 62.1% fully vaccinated and 9.3% partially vaccinated.

The problem is we define “herd immunity” as 100% vaccinated and anything short of that is doomsday. The next variant is the one that turns everyone into zombies.
RayR
5 years ago
Maybe I'll buy-in on Brain Futures Market, Zombies have to eat you know.
bgz
  • bgz
  • Herf-A-Holic
5 years ago

Go to Disneyland.

If it makes you feel any better California is 62.1% fully vaccinated and 9.3% partially vaccinated.

The problem is we define “herd immunity” as 100% vaccinated and anything short of that is doomsday. The next variant is the one that turns everyone into zombies.

HockeyDad wrote:



I'll go to Disney World instead... I'm used to the heat. Catch me some of that tropical covid.
rfenst
5 years ago

I'll go to Disney World instead... I'm used to the heat. Catch me some of that tropical covid.

bgz wrote:


Bro, let me know if you are coming to Orlando!
tonygraz
5 years ago
Are you going to buy some insurance on him ?
If so, I'll take a piece of that.
RayR
5 years ago

I'll go to Disney World instead... I'm used to the heat. Catch me some of that tropical covid.

bgz wrote:



Disney is WOKE.

https://thefederalist.com/2019/10/28/walt-disney-opposed-communism-today-disneys-ceo-appeases-communists/ 
rfenst
5 years ago
Necessary or not, booster shots are probably on horizon

Kaiser Health News

The drugmaker Pfizer recently announced that vaccinated people are likely to need a booster shot to be effectively protected against new variants of COVID-19 and that the company would apply for Food and Drug Administration emergency use authorization for the shot. Top government health officials immediately and emphatically announced that the booster isn’t needed right now — and held firm to that position even after Pfizer’s top scientist made his case and shared preliminary data with them last week.

This has led to confusion. Should the nearly 60% of adult Americans who have been fully vaccinated seek out a booster or not? Is the protection that has allowed them to see loved ones and go out to dinner fading?

Ultimately, the question of whether a booster is needed is unlikely to determine the FDA’s decision. If recent history is predictive, booster shots will be here before long. That’s because of the outdated, 60-year-old basic standard the FDA uses to authorize medicines for sale: Is a new drug “safe and effective”?

The FDA, using that standard, will very likely have to authorize Pfizer’s booster for emergency use, as it did the company’s prior COVID-19 shot. The booster is likely to be safe — hundreds of millions have taken the earlier shots — and Pfizer reported that it dramatically increases a vaccinated person’s antibodies against SARS-CoV-2. From that perspective, it may also be considered very effective.

But does that kind of efficacy matter? Is a higher level of antibodies needed to protect vaccinated Americans? Though antibody levels may wane some over time, the current vaccines deliver perfectly good immunity so far.
What if a booster is safe and effective in one sense but simply not needed — at least for now?


Reliance on the simple “safe and effective” standard — which certainly sounds reasonable — is a relic of a time when there were far fewer and simpler medicines available to treat diseases and before pharmaceutical manufacturing became one of the world’s biggest businesses.

The FDA’s 1938 landmark legislation focused primarily on safety after more than 100 Americans died from a raspberry-flavored liquid form of an early antibiotic because one of its ingredients was used as antifreeze. The 1962 Kefauver-Harris Amendments to the Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act set out more specific requirements for drug approval: Companies must scientifically prove a drug’s effectiveness through “adequate and well-controlled studies.”

In today’s pharmaceutical universe, a simple “safe and effective” determination is not always an adequate bar, and it can be manipulated to sell drugs of questionable value. There’s also big money involved: Pfizer is already projecting $26 billion in COVID-19 revenue this year.

The United States’ continued use of this standard to let drugs into the market has led to the approval of expensive, not necessarily very effective drugs. In 2014, for example, the FDA approved a toenail fungus drug that can cost up to $1,500 a month and that studies showed cured fewer than 10% of patients after a year of treatment. That’s more effective than doing nothing but less effective and more costly than a number of other treatments for this bothersome malady.

It has also led to a plethora of high-priced drugs to treat diseases like cancers, multiple sclerosis and Type 2 diabetes that are all more effective than a placebo but have often not been tested very much against one another to determine which are most effective.

In today’s complex world, clarification is needed to determine just what kind of effectiveness the FDA should demand. And should that be the job of the FDA alone?

For example, should drug makers prove a drug is significantly more effective than products already on the market? Or demonstrate cost-effectiveness — the health value of a product relative to its price — a metric used by Britain’s health system? And in which cases is effectiveness against a surrogate marker — like an antibody level — a good enough stand-in for whether a drug will have a significant impact on a patient’s health?

In most industrialized countries, broad access to the national market is a two-step process, said Aaron Kesselheim, a professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School who studies drug development, marketing and law and recently served on an FDA advisory committee. The first part certifies that a drug is sufficiently safe and effective. That is immediately followed by an independent health technology assessment to see where it fits in the treatment armamentarium, including, in some countries, whether it is useful enough to be sold at all at the stated price. But there’s no such automatic process in the U.S.

When Pfizer applies for authorization, the FDA may well clear a booster for the U.S. market. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, likely with advice from National Institutes of Health experts, will then have to decide whether to recommend it and for whom. This judgment call usually determines whether insurers will cover it. Pfizer is likely to profit handsomely from a government authorization, and the company will gain some revenue even if only the worried well, who can pay out-of-pocket, decide to get the shot.

To make any recommendation on a booster, government experts say they need more data. They could, for example, as Dr. Anthony Fauci has suggested, eventually green-light the additional vaccine shot only for a small group of patients at high risk for a deadly infection, such as the very old or transplant recipients who take immunosuppressant drugs, as some other countries have done.


But until the United States refines the FDA’s “safe and effective” standard or adds a second layer of vetting, when new products hit the market and manufacturers promote them, Americans will be left to decipher whose version of effective and necessary matters to them.
ZRX1200
5 years ago
bgz
  • bgz
  • Herf-A-Holic
5 years ago

Bro, let me know if you are coming to Orlando!

rfenst wrote:



We're going in November. My wife is a pro Disney goer though, so we're not going to have much down time. Might be able to figure something out though!
Users browsing this topic