rfenst
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4 years ago
An invasion would be a diplomatic, economic and military mistake for Putin. Let him make it if he must.

WSJ Opinion

As Russia continues its destabilizing military buildup around Ukraine, the U.S. and its allies have made clear they prefer to resolve the crisis through diplomacy. This reflects not simply the preference of the Biden administration when it comes to national-security matters but also the West’s desire to avoid inflaming and escalating the situation through military action.

This makes good sense. Any Russo-Ukrainian war is likely to be bloody for the combatants, result in a wave of refugees heading west, and further destabilize an already precarious regional security situation. Nonetheless, as diplomatic efforts unfold, there are good strategic reasons for the West to stake out a hard-line approach, giving little ground to Moscow over its demand to forsake Ukrainian membership in Western institutions and halt military activity in Central and Eastern Europe. Rather than helping Russian President Vladimir Putin back down from the position he’s taken, the West ought to stand firm, even if it means another Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Russia’s efforts to destabilize and undermine the Ukrainian government by keeping alive the smoldering war in the Donbas region haven’t returned Kyiv to Moscow’s orbit. Instead, Ukraine has used the past several years to boost its military capabilities gradually, strengthen its ties to the West, and improve its economy. It’s unclear why Mr. Putin has chosen this moment to demand assurances that Ukraine won’t become a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization or the European Union. Perhaps the Kremlin believes time isn’t on its side as Ukraine continues to slide closer to the West. Or Mr. Putin might assume Washington is more willing to accommodate Russia’s demands, given the intensifying American rivalry with China. Or it could even be that Mr. Putin hopes to bolster his declining public support with a jingoistic foreign adventure.

Regardless, Mr. Putin’s tactics have placed the West in a reactive mode, hoping to avoid a war in Europe that could result in tens of thousands of casualties. The death and destruction could far outpace that of the relatively more limited war in Donbas, where as many as 14,000 have died since 2014. But Mr. Putin’s price for turning down the heat is anathema to Western values of national self-determination and sovereignty. Moreover, a NATO-Russia agreement preventing Ukraine from seeking membership would violate a 1975 Helsinki agreement on security and cooperation in Europe—signed by Moscow—which said European states have the right to belong to any international alliance they choose.

Mr. Putin therefore appears to have taken quite a risk—and the West ought to exploit his gamble by maintaining a hard-line stance in diplomatic discussions. In the best case, Mr. Putin is forced to back down, losing face domestically and internationally, even if his state media spins it as a victory or claims the buildup was merely part of an exercise.

In the worst case, if Mr. Putin’s forces invade, Russia is likely to suffer long-term, serious and even debilitating strategic costs in three ways. First, another Russian invasion of Ukraine would forge an even stronger anti-Russian consensus across Europe. Although the EU has shown a remarkable degree of solidarity in maintaining its limited sanctions on Russia since the 2014 invasion of Ukraine, there are cracks in the edifice. Germany’s new left-leaning government hasn’t yet found its footing on Russia. Italy, Austria, Hungary and even France have shown a willingness to consider opening up to the Kremlin, despite the Russian forces in Crimea and Donbas. And NATO’s attention and resources remain split between Russia on the one hand, and instability and insecurity emanating from across the Mediterranean Sea on the other. Russian tanks crossing into Ukraine would focus minds and effort.

Second, a Russian reinvasion of Ukraine would likely result in another round of more debilitating economic sanctions that would further weaken Russia’s economy. Disconnecting Russia from the tools of global finance and investment—such as the Swift banking-payment system—would make it difficult for Moscow to earn money from its oil exports. Similarly, a ban on Western institutions’ trading of existing Russian debt in secondary markets would limit Moscow’s ability to finance development. Over time, a stronger, more effective round of sanctions would hasten Russia’s economic decline relative to the West, reduce its power overall, and make it far more expensive for Mr. Putin to intimidate and destabilize his neighbors.

Third, another Russian invasion of Ukraine, even if militarily successful in the short run, is likely to spawn a guerrilla war in those areas of Ukraine occupied by Russian forces. This will sap the strength and morale of Russia’s military while undercutting Mr. Putin’s domestic popularity and reducing Russia’s soft power globally.

If Russian forces enter Ukraine yet again, Kyiv is likely to lose the war and the human toll will be extensive. The long-term damage suffered by Moscow, however, is likely to be substantial as well. The seemingly impetuous Mr. Putin has maneuvered his way into a strategically risky position, and the West ought to leverage the Kremlin’s mistake and drive a hard bargain in any diplomacy.



Mr. Deni is a research professor at the U.S. Army War College’s Strategic Studies Institute, a nonresident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council and author of “Coalition of the Unwilling and Unable: European Realignment and the Future of American Geopolitics.”
delta1
4 years ago
just like the invasion of Iraq was gonna be a piece of cake to those who advocated it, the author's justification for a piece of cake war with Russia after an invasion of Ukraine should be taken with a grain of salt...there has never been a quick and positive outcome for any war the US has engaged in...

war is not a predictable exercise...precisely why it should never be anything but a last resort in order to protect our nation from destructive forces
rfenst
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4 years ago

just like the invasion of Iraq was gonna be a piece of cake to those who advocated it, the author's justification for a piece of cake war with Russia after an invasion of Ukraine should be taken with a grain of salt...there has never been a quick and positive outcome for any war the US has engaged in...

war is not a predictable exercise...precisely why it should never be anything but a last resort in order to protect our nation from destructive forces

delta1 wrote:


I didn't get all that the author was justifying or advocating U.S. war over Ukraine. His explanations and opinion seem to me to be arguing against it for many reasons.
Krazeehorse
4 years ago
Why is it again we’re still in NATO?
rfenst
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4 years ago

Why is it again we’re still in NATO?

Krazeehorse wrote:


Ukraine is not part of NATO.
Mr. Jones
4 years ago
Not yetttttt.....

But....

N.A.T.O. is courting them and bribing them with
LOTs of pallets-0-CASH
rfenst
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4 years ago

Not yetttttt.....

But....

N.A.T.O. is courting them and bribing them with
LOTs of pallets-0-CASH

Mr. Jones wrote:


Ukraine would give it's left nut just to be part of NATO or the EU.
That is exactly what Putin is afraid of.
delta1
4 years ago

I didn't get all that the author was justifying or advocating U.S. war over Ukraine. His explanations and opinion seem to me to be arguing against it for many reasons.

rfenst wrote:



oh...I went on the basis of the topic of the thread, which implied the US would consider a strategic case for war with Russia...alas, I only skimmed the article, and did read a few sentences that laid out the US response if Russia went to war with Ukraine...my bad

so the article is making a case against war...instead it says the US' and its European allies' strategic response would not be military in nature but stern diplomacy and more severe economic sanctions...

like what happened after Russia's initial Ukrainian invasion and the subsequent Crimean invasion...to little effect

but I get the author's argument that we should resolve to let the Ukrainians fight the Russians...a losing cause...but one which would deplete and further weaken Russia...

should we step up a proxy war...escalate supplying arms, including more powerful weapons to Ukraine?
rfenst
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4 years ago

should we step up a proxy war...escalate supplying arms, including more powerful weapons to Ukraine?

delta1 wrote:

No.
BuckyB93
4 years ago
^ This

I'm not a proponent of isolationism. We should support our friends and allies BUT I don't think we need to be getting into everyone else's business and be the global police service.

Where do you draw the line... that's the question.
rfenst
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4 years ago

^ This

I'm not a proponent of isolationism. We should support our friends and allies BUT I don't think we need to be getting into everyone else's business and be the global police service.

Where do you draw the line... that's the question.

BuckyB93 wrote:


It is Europe/EU's/NATO's problem, not ours. It won't be Russia closer to or on our border. We should sell arms for profit if necessary, but shouldn't spend any money on it, except as a last resort and only if it is totally necessary to try to prevent genocide, which isn't even an issue now- and then only if the others step it up too.
Speyside2
4 years ago
If I remember correctly Russia's economy is in bad shape. Another round or 2 of sanctions will make it worse. The cost of a war will make it worse. Plus, we do not know what their SARS-COVID2 policies have done to their economy.

Let em go down the economic tubes.
HockeyDad
4 years ago
Rest assured that President Biden will investigate what Trump would do and then do the exact opposite.

I heard you can see Russia from Alaska.
RayR
4 years ago

^ This

I'm not a proponent of isolationism. We should support our friends and allies BUT I don't think we need to be getting into everyone else's business and be the global police service.

Where do you draw the line... that's the question.

BuckyB93 wrote:



George Washington Was Right

The Original Foreign Policy

It is our true policy to steer clear of entangling alliances with any portion of the foreign world.~ George Washington

Read it...

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2006/12/ron-paul/george-washington-was-right/ 
rfenst
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4 years ago
Biden, Putin Warn of Danger to Relations if Crisis Over Ukraine Escalates

Moscow has built up troops near Ukraine and issued demands to NATO and the U.S.

WSJ

President Biden and Russian President Vladimir Putin warned each other of the potential for a dangerous downturn in relations if the current crisis over Ukraine further escalates, but kept a pathway open for diplomacy.

In a 50-minute conference call Thursday, Mr. Biden renewed a warning to Mr. Putin that Russia would face punishing economic sanctions if Moscow turned away from diplomacy and attacked Ukraine, a senior U.S. official said.

Mr. Putin countered that such action would lead to a dangerous rupture in ties between the two countries, a Putin foreign-policy aide said.

“Our president immediately responded, saying that if the West decides ultimately under whatever conditions to introduce such unprecedented sanctions, it could lead to the total breakdown in relations between our countries,” Yuri Ushakov told reporters.

Thursday’s call came at what a senior Biden administration official described as a “moment of crisis” over Ukraine. Mr. Putin requested the call, giving him a chance to speak directly with Mr. Biden before their negotiators meet for a series of talks next month. It was the second time they talked about Ukraine this month, the previous being a two-hour call on Dec. 7.

Since the fall, Mr. Putin has ordered troops to mass near Ukraine in what U.S. and European officials say could be a prelude to an invasion. In doing so, Mr. Putin is trying to force the U.S. and its allies in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization to address Moscow’s objections to the military alliance’s ties with Ukraine, Georgia and other former Soviet states, the current and former officials said.

Both sides described the tone of Thursday’s discussion as serious and substantive. The senior U.S. official, however, said that Washington continues to monitor the deployment of Russian forces in Crimea and near Ukraine.

A military buildup along the Ukrainian border is further straining ties between Russia and the U.S., after clashes over cybercrime, expulsions of diplomats and a migrant crisis in Belarus. WSJ explains what is deepening the rift between Washington and Moscow. Photo Composite/Video: Michelle Inez Simon
During the call, the U.S. official said, Mr. Biden outlined two paths that Mr. Putin faces: one of de-escalation and diplomacy, and another in which Russia takes military action against its Ukrainian neighbor and encounters a serious response from the West.

That, Mr. Biden and top officials have said, would include stringent economic sanctions, stepped up military aid to Ukraine and a reinforced U.S. military presence along NATO’s eastern flank near Russia. The Kremlin’s sharp reaction to the warning of sanctions was seen by some U.S. officials as an indication that Moscow appears to be taking that threat seriously.

Mr. Biden has rebuffed Russian demands that the U.S. call a halt to NATO’s eastward expansion and rule out potential membership for Ukraine, a position the U.S. official repeated Thursday.

“Our position is very clear,” the official said. “These are decisions to be made by sovereign countries, obviously in consultation with the alliance and not for others to determine.”

Mr. Putin sparked the current crisis, current and former U.S. officials said, with his troop deployments and demands for security guarantees that would prevent the eastward expansion of NATO and deny membership in the alliance to parts of the former Soviet Union.

“It’s almost as if Putin and the Kremlin were saying: ‘Wait a minute, we’re a nuclear superpower, pay attention to us,’” said Angela Stent, a Brookings Institution fellow and former U.S. national intelligence officer for Russia and Eurasia. “Key Western players have been distracted, and Putin took the initiative and, in essence, created a crisis where there wasn’t a crisis in order to secure concessions from the West.”

Russia’s foreign ministry this month posted two proposed accords that would redefine European security on its website—a draft treaty with the U.S. and one with NATO nations—after handing them to a senior State Department official. The treaty was released in English and Russian versions and came complete with signature blocks for the two sides.

“You should give us guarantees,” Mr. Putin said on Dec. 23 at his annual press conference. “Now!”

In the call Thursday, Mr. Putin argued that the U.S. would be acting much the same if Russia was deploying weapons near the U.S. border, Mr. Ushakov said.

Mr. Biden said that the U.S. had no intention of deploying offensive missiles in Ukraine that could strike Russia, Mr. Ushakov added.

A White House official said Mr. Biden made clear that the U.S. was providing only defensive security assistance to Ukraine and wasn’t deploying offensive weapons that can strike Russia. “This was not a new commitment. It was a restatement of our current policy,” the White House official said.

The military assistance the U.S. has provided to Ukraine so far consists of antitank weapons, counter-battery radars, patrols boats and battlefield systems.

Mr. Biden had tried to plot a different relationship with his Russian counterpart. Before his first summit meeting with Mr. Putin in June, Biden administration officials made clear that they were seeking predictable and stable ties with Moscow.

Though the two leaders didn’t resolve major issues at their summit, they expressed interest in maintaining a working relationship and reiterated the formula codified by former President Ronald Reagan and Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev that “a nuclear war cannot be won and must never be fought.” That theme, Mr. Ushakov said, also came up in the Thursday call.

Mr. Putin, however, hasn’t been satisfied with the status quo in Europe, which he has said presents a long-term threat to Russian security, and he saw an opportunity to press longstanding demands for a sphere of influence along his country’s periphery.

Though NATO said in 2008 that Ukraine and Georgia would one day be members, the alliance wasn’t moving to fulfill that vow. Russia had annexed Crimea from Ukraine in 2014, and the war between Kyiv and Russian-backed separatists simmered on at a low level.

Moscow has grown increasingly concerned that Ukraine was moving toward the West and perhaps eventual NATO membership. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky was cracking down on pro-Russian politicians and media inside his country, giving the Kremlin less leverage on Ukraine’s internal politics.

Ukraine’s military, meanwhile, has by increments been acquiring Western weapons systems and training from NATO members, though it remains far less capable than Russia’s forces.

Dara Massicot, a Rand Corp expert on the Russian military, said that Russia’s troop deployments have left the Kremlin with a range of diplomatic and military options as it seeks to pry concessions from Washington and NATO.

“They are creating this artificial sense of urgency. A lot of their demands are years old. They are using military force to underscore the point. They are trying to set the pace for negotiations and force concessions,” she said. “It is almost like Ukraine is the hostage.”
Speyside2
4 years ago
Et Putin bankrupt Russia and be sanctioned heavier than Cuba. I like it.
Mr. Jones
4 years ago
SCREW THE UKRAINE...

LET THE ROOOSKIES HAVE IT...

UKRAINIA IS N.O.T. WORTH WWIII

NO WAY IN HELL
Mr. Jones
4 years ago
But we get ICELAND AND LICHTENSTEIN AS
A CONSULTATION PRIZE...
BuckyB93
4 years ago
How bout we invite Russia to join NATO. Problem solved.

NINE! teen.
Mr. Jones
4 years ago
NEIN!!!

NO WAY...

THEY ARE COMMIES
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