rfenst
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4 years ago
Poll: Only about 4 in 10 call deadly Capitol riot violent

Associated Press

WASHINGTON — The fighting — so primitive and ferocious that one Capitol Police officer described it as “medieval” and another as a “trip to hell” — left more than 100 law enforcement personnel injured, some beaten with their own weapons.
Video cameras captured the violence live, with rioters clubbing officers with flagpoles and fire extinguishers, even squeezing one between doors as he begged for his life.

Yet only about 4 in 10 Republicans recall the Jan. 6 attack by supporters of then-President Donald Trump as very violent or extremely violent, according to a new poll conducted Dec. 2-7 from Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research. About 3 in 10 Republicans say the attack was not violent, and about another 3 in 10 say it was somewhat violent.

Their views were a distinct minority as overall about two-thirds of Americans described the day as very or extremely violent, including about 9 in 10 Democrats.


The findings reflect the country’s political polarization, with a false portrayal of the siege taking hold despite extensive footage that shows the ransacking of the building in harrowing detail. Trump and some allies in Congress and conservative media have played it down, falsely characterizing the attack as a minor civil disturbance.

It’s a view that is shared by many Republicans, though few go so far as to defend the rioters themselves.
“My understanding was that a lot of it was pretty peaceful,” Paul Bender, a self-described conservative from Cleveland, told The Associated Press in a recent interview. “I’ve seen some video of the people just like marching in through a velvet rope.”

Bender, who said he didn’t keep up with the news coverage, added, “There were certainly outlier people who were not peaceful and were breaking through the windows and stuff like that, but I wasn’t aware of overt violence.”

Meanwhile, the percentage of Americans who blame Trump for the Jan. 6 riot has grown slightly over the past year, with 57% saying he bears significant responsibility for what took place. In an AP-NORC poll taken in the days after the attack, 50% said that.

The uptick is seen among Republicans as well, even as relatively few think Trump bears significant responsibility. Twenty-two percent say that now, up from 11% last year. Sixty percent say he had little to no responsibility.


“I don’t believe that he actively was like promoting people to do anything other than a peaceful protest,” Bender, 53, said. “However, once things got out of hand, I think that it would have been appropriate for him to have reacted sooner, whether that was a statement or going on the radio or TV or whatever.”

The insurrection was the closing act of Trump’s desperate effort to overturn his election loss to Joe Biden.

After Trump’s baseless claims of voter fraud were soundly rejected in the courts, he shifted his focus to the Electoral College certification on Jan. 6, publicly pressuring then-Vice President Mike Pence to stop Congress from naming Biden the winner. Pence did not have that power under the law, as the vice president’s function is largely ceremonial.

Trump promoted the Jan. 6 rally that preceded the attack, predicting it would be “wild,” and in a speech that day urged his supporters to “fight like hell” as Congress convened to certify the election results.

The attack halted that process for hours as rioters occupied the building.

Still, while few Republicans blame Trump, Republicans and Democrats alike overwhelmingly say that the individual rioters had a great deal or quite a bit of responsibility for their actions during the riot.

“I think there were strong supporters of President Trump that were there, but I think the people that caused the attacks might not have been true Trump supporters,” said Mary Beth Bell of Jacksonville, Florida. “Because I know a lot of Trump supporters, and they see what happened on Jan. 6 as disgusting as I do.”

About 7 in 10 Americans also say a House select committee should continue its investigation of the attack, while about 3 in 10 say it should not.

Robert Spry, a Democrat in Kingman, Arizona, said the congressional investigation is crucial for getting at the truth.
“We need a comprehensive report of that day. It has got to come to light what those people did to police and to that building,” Spry said.

The 63-year-old, who used to vote Republican but now considers himself a conservative Democrat, said the protest-turned-attack appeared chaotic at first but the committee’s findings are making it “more and more clear that it was planned in advance.”

Forty-one percent of Republicans agree with Spry that Congress should continue to investigate, while 58% say it should not.

Bell said a federal investigation into what she saw as “a terrorist attack” is appropriate, but she objects to the way the nine-member panel has been conducting the investigation since July of last year.

“They’re not listening to all the information. I feel like it’s one-sided more or less than trying to investigate everything,” she said of the committee, composed of seven Democrats and two Republicans.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., chose all the members of the committee after rejecting the choices of House GOP leadership.
MACS
4 years ago
Um... the "deadly" capitol riot was only deadly for 1 unarmed, female protestor.
Speyside2
4 years ago
It basically was a unguided tour, also the violence was caused by ANTIFA.
HockeyDad
4 years ago
It was a mostly peaceful protest.
rfenst
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4 years ago

Um... the "deadly" capitol riot was only deadly for 1 unarmed, female protestor.

MACS wrote:



Are you saying that because only one protestor got shot dead that there wasn't deadly violence? You are merely mincing words.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/09/01/prosecutors-jan-6-police-assaults-508720 

Got any idea of the number of law enforcement who were on duty, in the melee, and who since committed suicide?

Got any idea of the number of law enforcement still unable to return to their jobs due to injuries?

YMMV.
HockeyDad
4 years ago

Are you saying that because only one protestor got shot dead that there wasn't deadly violence? You are merely mincing words.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/09/01/prosecutors-jan-6-police-assaults-508720 

Got any idea of the number of law enforcement who were on duty, in the melee, and who since committed suicide?

Got any idea of the number of law enforcement still unable to return to their jobs due to injuries?

YMMV.

rfenst wrote:



Do we have comparable numbers for Portland, Seattle, DC, and Minneapolis where mostly peaceful protests and violence was perfectly acceptable and encouraged? Remember that DC was also under siege in the summer of 2020 by BLM and Antifa and that was fine? They got Black Lives Matter Plaza named after them for those attacks!

RayR
4 years ago
Kamala's RIOTING SEAL OF APPROVAL:

“Everyone beware. They're not gonna stop before election day in November, and they're not gonna stop after election day ... They’re not gonna let up, and they should not.”

IT'S THE THING!
rfenst
  • rfenst
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4 years ago

Do we have comparable numbers for Portland, Seattle, DC, and Minneapolis where mostly peaceful protests and violence was perfectly acceptable and encouraged? Remember that DC was also under siege in the summer of 2020 by BLM and Antifa and that was fine? They got Black Lives Matter Plaza named after them for those attacks!

HockeyDad wrote:


I agree that all you listed is real bad and unacceptable. But, that has no bearing whatsoever about what actually occurred. You are basically defending your position with: But, what about..., which has no bearing on the actions of those at the Capitol that day. Knowing you well, I want to presume you are just playing the "devils advocate."
HockeyDad
4 years ago

I agree that all you listed is real bad and unacceptable. But, that has no bearing whatsoever about what actually occurred. You are basically defending your position with: But, what about..., which has no bearing on the actions of those at the Capitol that day. Knowing you well, I want to presume you are just playing the "devils advocate."

rfenst wrote:



All that I listed is not bad and unacceptable. It was good and acceptable. My position is you cannot desensitize everyone to riots, looting, destruction and killings and then all of a sudden say this particular case was not good and acceptable. This one and only this one crossed the line into “bad riot”.

At some point you have to ask if you’re really concerned and devastated over the fact the a Viking seized the Capitol and to what extent of a power grab are you willing to accept for security from future Viking attacks. Let’s throw Trump in prison, line up all the rioters and shoot them for insurrection, and we can establish peace through force.

We are not talking about a siege or insurrection. I’ll entertain that notion when the the Capitol is surrounded by tanks.
Mr. Jones
4 years ago
What about a violent ANTIFA OR BLM RIOT...

WHERE buildings get looted, burned and or vandalized along with a few deaths at each major one that happened...
Some for days or weeks on end...

The HIPPOCRASY METER IS PEGGED ON FULL HIGH...

TWO FACED AHOLES WHO DENY THE SAME THINGS happened at both...
rfenst
  • rfenst
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
4 years ago

All that I listed is not bad and unacceptable. It was good and acceptable. My position is you cannot desensitize everyone to riots, looting, destruction and killings and then all of a sudden say this particular case was not good and acceptable. This one and only this one crossed the line into “bad riot”.

At some point you have to ask if you’re really concerned and devastated over the fact the a Viking seized the Capitol and to what extent of a power grab are you willing to accept for security from future Viking attacks. Let’s throw Trump in prison, line up all the rioters and shoot them for insurrection, and we can establish peace through force.

We are not talking about a siege or insurrection. I’ll entertain that notion when the the Capitol is surrounded by tanks.

HockeyDad wrote:


We can define "riot", "siege" and "insurrection" differently and that is OK, but there is no doubt about what truly occurred at the Capital. Video will prove it for time immemorial. "Violently attacking the Capitol is not consistent with American democratic traditions. Nor is trying to airbrush the horror of that attack, as many top Republican officials have."
ZRX1200
4 years ago
Sigh….are you trolling now? You’re better than this.

Things we learned today:

The Republican Party is more inclusive than Democrats
No cops died during the mostly peaceful protest as a result of violence
Propaganda is still effective to many
Taking part in dividing the country is patriotic!
The veteran who was murdered died from COVID19
Nancy Pelosi caused this by refusing extra national Guard
Many refuse to look at whom had what to gain and lose from the event but enjoy taking part of channeling approved thought.
HockeyDad
4 years ago

We can define "riot", "siege" and "insurrection" differently and that is OK, but there is no doubt about what truly occurred at the Capital. Video will prove it for time immemorial.

rfenst wrote:



You mean the video of the rioters getting let in the Capitol and walking around within the velvet tour ropes?


Siege

a military operation in which enemy forces surround a town or building, cutting off essential supplies, with the aim of compelling the surrender of those inside.

Riot

a violent disturbance of the peace by a crowd


Insurrection

a violent uprising against an authority or government



Now why would a political entity call a riot an insurrection?
ZRX1200
4 years ago
And why is it some video is so readily available and some isn’t?
Dg west deptford
4 years ago
^ to not do so would be racist?
RayR
4 years ago


Now why would a political entity call a riot an insurrection?

HockeyDad wrote:



It must have been the numerous pitchforks, torches, and Confederate Flags they saw. 🤔
Brewha
4 years ago

It basically was a unguided tour, also the violence was caused by ANTIFA.

Speyside2 wrote:


Police officer Lt. Michael Byrd was ANTIFA?

Do you just make this sh1t up or does someone do it for you?
Brewha
4 years ago

Sigh….are you trolling now? You’re better than this.

Things we learned today:

The Republican Party is more inclusive than Democrats
No cops died during the mostly peaceful protest as a result of violence
Propaganda is still effective to many
Taking part in dividing the country is patriotic!
The veteran who was murdered died from COVID19
Nancy Pelosi caused this by refusing extra national Guard
Many refuse to look at whom had what to gain and lose from the event but enjoy taking part of channeling approved thought.

ZRX1200 wrote:


Obviously this is some strange usage of the term “learned” that is previously unknown.
Brewha
4 years ago

You mean the video of the rioters getting let in the Capitol and walking around within the velvet tour ropes?


Siege

a military operation in which enemy forces surround a town or building, cutting off essential supplies, with the aim of compelling the surrender of those inside.

Riot

a violent disturbance of the peace by a crowd


Insurrection

a violent uprising against an authority or government



Now why would a political entity call a riot an insurrection?

HockeyDad wrote:


The terms are not mutually exclusive.

Sunoverbeach
4 years ago
How many tickles does it take to tickle an octopus?
Tentacles
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