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Teacher morality
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Stinkdyr Offline
#1 Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2011, 7:31 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
I am shocked!

>> Award-winning gains by Atlanta students were based on widespread cheating by 178 named teachers and principals, said Georgia Gov. Nathan Deal on Tuesday. His office released a report from the Georgia Bureau of Investigation that names 178 teachers and principals – 82 of whom confessed – in what's likely the biggest cheating scandal in US history.

This appears to be the largest of dozens of major cheating scandals, unearthed across the country. The allegations point an ongoing problem for US education, which has developed an ever-increasing dependence on standardized tests.

The report on the Atlanta Public Schools, released Tuesday, indicates a "widespread" conspiracy by teachers, principals and administrators to fix answers on the Criterion-Referenced Competency Test (CRCT), punish whistle-blowers, and hide improprieties. >>


Shocked! I tell you.


Not talking
Papachristou Offline
#2 Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2011, 8:01 AM EST
Joined: 10-20-2010
Posts: 845
shocked? really? our politicians are blatently stealing from us and the country yet we stand idly by. (myself included)
Stinkdyr Offline
#3 Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2011, 8:15 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
Welcome to the Libertarian Party........we have been expecting you!


Herfing
Papachristou Offline
#4 Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2011, 8:22 AM EST
Joined: 10-20-2010
Posts: 845
ah, if only you stood a chance. sadly the masses are more concerned with how many times they can text vote on american idol than voting for those in office.
jackconrad Offline
#5 Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2011, 8:39 AM EST
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
My life is on Idle
DrafterX Offline
#6 Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2011, 8:58 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
Stinkdyr wrote:
I am shocked!



Not talking





just a little Outrage here...... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#7 Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2011, 9:08 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
Think Think
Sounds more like and Auburn thing.....
daveincincy Offline
#8 Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2011, 10:06 AM EST
Joined: 08-11-2006
Posts: 20,033
[ fog ] When I was a kid in school I didn't have many choices other than to study and WORK at getting good (or average) grades. I don't recall having other options like buddying up to the teacher to change my grades to A's and B's, or the option to have sex with a teacher in conjunction with or in lieu of better grades.[/ fog ]


...if any organization can replace a person with selfless passion and love for a career with one that possesses none of those qualities, a union can.
Brewha Offline
#9 Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2011, 12:13 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
They are placing the next generation is JEOPARDY!

“Alex, I’ll take Moral Turpitude for $500 please”
JadeRose Offline
#10 Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2011, 12:23 PM EST
Joined: 05-15-2008
Posts: 19,525
It's a shame but I'm not surprised. The idiocy of "No Child Left Behind" is coming home to roost. Federal school funding is based on the test scores of ALL children. They have mentally handicapped children taking tests at the same grade level as their able minded peers. Teachers need to be able to TEACH. Not just study for a test. Kids are not being taught to think.......just pass tests in any way they can. If it involves cheating...so be it. This isn't a "Bush" problem....it's an American problem. The Obama administration has continued this nonsense. They need to get the "Experts" out of the schools and let the REAL experts do their job. Also...get rid of the teacher's unions. The cream will rise to the top and those teachers can and should be paid handsomely. The rest can go home.
DrafterX Offline
#11 Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2011, 12:42 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
Do teachers have to pass one of these kinds of tests every year..?? Huh




on another note I've worked at a major Hotel and seen the so called techer's conferences.... Mellow
daveincincy Offline
#12 Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2011, 12:50 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2006
Posts: 20,033
DrafterX wrote:
Do teachers have to pass one of these kinds of tests every year..?? Huh




on another note I've worked at a major Hotel and seen the so called techer's conferences.... Mellow



Does anyone go to a "conference" anymore for actual work training, or is it just another reason to take a trip and drink....and cheat on your spouse?
herfidore Offline
#13 Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2011, 1:17 PM EST
Joined: 02-21-2008
Posts: 4,031
Those that can't do, teach.
Stinkdyr Offline
#14 Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2011, 2:24 PM EST
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
Privatize Education.


eventually you will see the wisdom.....the pain just has to get more severe.


Herfing
DrafterX Offline
#15 Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2011, 2:27 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
Ram has a bat.... ram27bat
Brewha Offline
#16 Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2011, 2:58 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Stinkdyr wrote:
Privatize Education.


Translation = “Privatize the profit – Socialize the debt.”
HockeyDad Offline
#17 Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2011, 3:19 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,134
Government-run education is a God-given right.
DrafterX Offline
#18 Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2011, 3:32 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
HockeyDad wrote:
Government-run education is a God-given right.



Is that written on a sign at the camps..?? Huh
HockeyDad Offline
#19 Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2011, 3:38 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,134
Nope. It is the state constitution.
DrafterX Offline
#20 Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2011, 3:41 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
Think Think
so that's why they try to convert everyone to Christians...... Mellow
HockeyDad Offline
#21 Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2011, 3:52 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,134
Well....there's that plus it is the correct religion.
DrafterX Offline
#22 Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2011, 4:01 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
LOL
Brewha Offline
#23 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2011, 7:18 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
HockeyDad wrote:
Well....there's that plus it is the correct religion.


Thus Spoke Zarathustra
DrafterX Offline
#24 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2011, 7:59 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
who dat..?? Huh
Brewha Offline
#25 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2011, 8:48 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain . . . . .
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#26 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2011, 8:57 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
what do you all expect. it's georgia. they drool and drawl when they speak.

they elected newt, because he was a straight arrow, family man.

i'd like to hear about mississippi.
HockeyDad Offline
#27 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2011, 9:12 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,134
DrafterX wrote:
who dat..?? Huh



That was CROS' stage name when he was on Broadway.
Brewha Offline
#28 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2011, 9:16 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Allow me;

“Poor CROS”

You’re welcome.
DrafterX Offline
#29 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2011, 9:28 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
ya.... poor CROS.... Sad
McBryde Offline
#30 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2011, 11:20 AM EST
Joined: 05-11-2011
Posts: 411
JadeRose wrote:
It's a shame but I'm not surprised. The idiocy of "No Child Left Behind" is coming home to roost. Federal school funding is based on the test scores of ALL children. They have mentally handicapped children taking tests at the same grade level as their able minded peers. Teachers need to be able to TEACH. Not just study for a test. Kids are not being taught to think.......just pass tests in any way they can. If it involves cheating...so be it. This isn't a "Bush" problem....it's an American problem. The Obama administration has continued this nonsense. They need to get the "Experts" out of the schools and let the REAL experts do their job. Also...get rid of the teacher's unions. The cream will rise to the top and those teachers can and should be paid handsomely. The rest can go home.


I agree 100%, and I am a teacher. The problems with no child left behind are endless. Raising the bar each year to make it where the students are all going to be so called "proficient" in literacy and math are stupid. Don't get me wrong, we need some sort of something like this, but government takeover of schools when this does not happen will just end up in ALL schools run by the government in the next 10 years if something doesn't change. Having every student, ie. handicapped, mentally handicapped, mentally retarded, ones that are being raped at home the morning before the test, ones that are "sleeping" in the back of a car the night before, ones that don't care about their grades, ones that go to sleep when the test starts and don't answer anything on the test, all have to be proficient on this test, with the rest of America as the standard.

Sounds easy to me, everyone should be able to do that! Sarcasm

E
McBryde Offline
#31 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2011, 11:26 AM EST
Joined: 05-11-2011
Posts: 411
DrafterX wrote:
Do teachers have to pass one of these kinds of tests every year..?? Huh


on another note I've worked at a major Hotel and seen the so called techer's conferences.... Mellow


The test that they are talking about is a test that measures the students proficiency of literacy and math at grade level. The amount of students in your school district that have to pass the test is being raised in % every year by the department of education. I don't remember the year to be exact, but they have it raising to 100% proficient. If the school does not meet these percentages, the school gos into school improvement. After so many years of school improvement, the school is put on school improvement plans, and greatly interveined in by the state, the school is taken over by the state department of education and run by them if the scores don't come up after the improvement plan.


Teachers have to by law, get 60 hours of professional development per year. That is what these teaching conferences are for.

E
McBryde Offline
#32 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2011, 11:41 AM EST
Joined: 05-11-2011
Posts: 411
herfidore wrote:
Those that can't do, teach.


This quote is probably the one that pisses me off as a teacher the most. You have no inclination of what I or any teacher goes through every day in our job, so you post crap like this for what? To try to demean the educators of the world? Are you pissed that we get off 3 months during the summer? Or that we get paid so little? Or that we work roughly 60 hours with all of our planning and after school work a week and don't get paid for overtime? Big freaking deal! That is all part of our job. We are there not for the money, but for the kids! We enjo working with the students, watching them enjoy learning, making a safe environment for them away from their usually crappy home environments.

People that say this were probably hurt in the education system growing up, by being picked on or something, or they are pissed off at the educational system because they didn't have something go right with their kids. Remember, not all teachers are like that. Some of us work hard at our jobs, and hold our students accountable to a higher standard than others. Keep those teachers in mind the next time you say this crap!

E
DrafterX Offline
#33 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2011, 1:02 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,552
herfidore wrote:
Those that can't do, teach.




I always related that quote to more of a trade school type of teacher myself..... Mellow



Cooper excluded of course... d'oh!
HockeyDad Offline
#34 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2011, 1:04 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,134
McBryde wrote:


People that say this were probably hurt in the education system growing up, by being picked on or something, or they are pissed off at the educational system because they didn't have something go right with their kids. Remember, not all teachers are like that. Some of us work hard at our jobs, and hold our students accountable to a higher standard than others. Keep those teachers in mind the next time you say this crap!

E



Either that or they've just encountered a lot of crappy teachers.
frankj1 Offline
#35 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2011, 5:41 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
McBryde wrote:
This quote is probably the one that pisses me off as a teacher the most. You have no inclination of what I or any teacher goes through every day in our job, so you post crap like this for what? To try to demean the educators of the world? Are you pissed that we get off 3 months during the summer? Or that we get paid so little? Or that we work roughly 60 hours with all of our planning and after school work a week and don't get paid for overtime? Big freaking deal! That is all part of our job. We are there not for the money, but for the kids! We enjo working with the students, watching them enjoy learning, making a safe environment for them away from their usually crappy home environments.

People that say this were probably hurt in the education system growing up, by being picked on or something, or they are pissed off at the educational system because they didn't have something go right with their kids. Remember, not all teachers are like that. Some of us work hard at our jobs, and hold our students accountable to a higher standard than others. Keep those teachers in mind the next time you say this crap!

E

Standing ovation.

Thank you for trying to teach the children of folks that have not "stepped into the ring" in 30 to 40 years.
Unfunded mandates (No Child Left Behing eg), three-job-holding parents with little English at home, parents that expect teachers to set limits on their kids who have not learned respect by age 6 (nice job parents!), main-streamed students that our current readers never saw in their classrooms decades ago because the "short bus" delivered them to the rear of the building, way more kids per teacher than ever, untold hours of planning (my wife puts in 3 to 4 hours per night AFTER work, lots of hours on weekends, reports get written on vacations and she's in SPED!)...why bother trying to explain how hard it is to educate in the modern classroom when this is the attitude at home? Ya think your offspring don't hear the disrespect you are spouting?? My father would have smacked me if I acted like that in school.

Learning difficulties have been identified and teaching methods have been updated to such a degree that today's classroom teacher can not teach using one method and expect all the kids to get it. Years ago, those that fell behind were "stupid" Today they have a chance for greatness. We now know they were not stupid, they learn in a different way.

Those that can't teach nor be taught, criticize.
McBryde Offline
#36 Posted: Fri, Jul 8 2011, 7:13 PM EST
Joined: 05-11-2011
Posts: 411
frankj1 wrote:
Those that can't teach nor be taught, criticize.



I love it, and I agree with you. Your wife is a saint dealing with SPED. I mine as well though, I had a class with 14 of my 27 students in it SPED this year as a regular ed teacher. Please tell me why I can have 14 when a SPED teacher by law can only have 9? Makes a heck of a lot of sense to me!

E
frankj1 Offline
#37 Posted: Fri, Jul 8 2011, 7:38 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
McBryde wrote:
I love it, and I agree with you. Your wife is a saint dealing with SPED. I mine as well though, I had a class with 14 of my 27 students in it SPED this year as a regular ed teacher. Please tell me why I can have 14 when a SPED teacher by law can only have 9? Makes a heck of a lot of sense to me!

E

...and individual lesson plans for all too I bet. Love to see some of the critics prepare for your typical day, they'd be worshipping you and picketing to increase your pay.

Of course there are dogs in the union, but by and large people enter the profession to make a difference, not to get rich, but they shouldn't be expected to take a vow of poverty either. Many burn out or become disillusioned, some cave in to the relentless white noise from uninformed...many from zero supoprt in the child's home. "hey teacher, just get the stuff in the kids' heads" like it can be done without the home base support.

I don't know about conferences in other states or hotels, but my wife (and daughter, english teacher 11th grade) have professional development hours mandated. In Massachusetts, one must either have a masters or be in the process of earning one in a stipulated time frame to teach in public schools. Not many slackers rise to that challenge..or that expense!
McBryde Offline
#38 Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2011, 12:56 AM EST
Joined: 05-11-2011
Posts: 411
Well Frank,

we don't have unions down here. All that I have heard about them are not really for the best so to speak. Don;t get me wrong, the 80K a year those teachers make up there on average wouldn't be bad at all, but like I said, I'm not in it for the money, just the kids. We don't have to have a masters here, but I have been thinking about getting mine. My old man tells me almost every time I talk to him about work "You mine as well be getting the maximum amount of money for that hour of work." It's starting to sink in I guess, LOL. One teacher's salary, and my wife staying home with our little one with no job kinda hurts sometimes, but life is good, and God blesses!

E
HockeyDad Offline
#39 Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2011, 4:59 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,134
I think we all can agree that we need to raise revenue so we can pay more for teachers and that the Bush tax cuts should be repealed for everyone and new tax increases should be instituted so that we can pay our fair share.
McBryde Offline
#40 Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2011, 1:00 PM EST
Joined: 05-11-2011
Posts: 411
There is no need to raise taxes just to raise taxes though so we can say that we will pay people more. There has to be a channel for that funding to get to where it needs to go. The problems we have now is that there are too many hands in the pot that don't need to be there. There has to be a plan in action to dump those funds into instead of things being able to be earmarked for different crap. For example, money from the state for the teachers that was shelled out a couple of years ago that went to our school was shuffled and shuffled and shuffled until it was a new roof on our middle school. Teachers only saw a $300 / year increase in pay. The roof was $1 million. There has to be rules aet on that money and what it can be used for. If not, there is no use in paying more taxes!

E
HockeyDad Offline
#41 Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2011, 2:37 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,134
There is a channel: the US Dept of Education, 50 State Dept of Education, and thousands of actual school districts.
frankj1 Offline
#42 Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2011, 7:41 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
McBryde wrote:
Well Frank,

we don't have unions down here. All that I have heard about them are not really for the best so to speak. Don;t get me wrong, the 80K a year those teachers make up there on average wouldn't be bad at all, but like I said, I'm not in it for the money, just the kids. We don't have to have a masters here, but I have been thinking about getting mine. My old man tells me almost every time I talk to him about work "You mine as well be getting the maximum amount of money for that hour of work." It's starting to sink in I guess, LOL. One teacher's salary, and my wife staying home with our little one with no job kinda hurts sometimes, but life is good, and God blesses!

E

My wife's take home pay went down for a period of 3 consecutive years recently due to her share of health insurance coverage rising faster than her 3% raise spread over 3 years. Her union doesn't do wonderous things for her but also does not kill our taxpayers with insane demands. Our town has a bright young exec. sec. who has successfully negotiated with the police and firemen unions to tie pay in with revenue. All sides were reasonable and kept the financial health of the town up front at all times. Can't wait for him to deal with the teachers.
HockeyDad Offline
#43 Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2011, 7:52 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,134
frankj1 wrote:
My wife's take home pay went down for a period of 3 consecutive years recently due to her share of health insurance coverage rising faster than her 3% raise spread over 3 years.




A lot of people in the private sector have the exact same story....well....without the raise part.
wheelrite Offline
#44 Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2011, 8:41 PM EST
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
Teachers should work 12 months a year.

Like the rest of us,,,
FuzzNJ Offline
#45 Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2011, 9:22 PM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
JadeRose wrote:
It's a shame but I'm not surprised. The idiocy of "No Child Left Behind" is coming home to roost. Federal school funding is based on the test scores of ALL children. They have mentally handicapped children taking tests at the same grade level as their able minded peers. Teachers need to be able to TEACH. Not just study for a test. Kids are not being taught to think.......just pass tests in any way they can. If it involves cheating...so be it. This isn't a "Bush" problem....it's an American problem. The Obama administration has continued this nonsense. They need to get the "Experts" out of the schools and let the REAL experts do their job. Also...get rid of the teacher's unions. The cream will rise to the top and those teachers can and should be paid handsomely. The rest can go home.



Jade

I stand and Applause to 98% of that. The 2% can be debated at another time.

Bravo
FuzzNJ Offline
#46 Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2011, 9:24 PM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
McBryde wrote:
This quote is probably the one that pisses me off as a teacher the most. You have no inclination of what I or any teacher goes through every day in our job, so you post crap like this for what? To try to demean the educators of the world? Are you pissed that we get off 3 months during the summer? Or that we get paid so little? Or that we work roughly 60 hours with all of our planning and after school work a week and don't get paid for overtime? Big freaking deal! That is all part of our job. We are there not for the money, but for the kids! We enjo working with the students, watching them enjoy learning, making a safe environment for them away from their usually crappy home environments.

People that say this were probably hurt in the education system growing up, by being picked on or something, or they are pissed off at the educational system because they didn't have something go right with their kids. Remember, not all teachers are like that. Some of us work hard at our jobs, and hold our students accountable to a higher standard than others. Keep those teachers in mind the next time you say this crap!

E


Keep up the good work and don't back down to the bullies. Teachers are the new easy target.
FuzzNJ Offline
#47 Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2011, 9:29 PM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
wheelrite wrote:
Teachers should work 12 months a year.

Like the rest of us,,,


Kids should have a longer school year not because teachers should work longer, but because it helps students learn faster, retain knowledge better and will help them in the long run.
ZRX1200 Offline
#48 Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2011, 9:48 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,614
Like other countries ^?
wheelrite Offline
#49 Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2011, 9:55 PM EST
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
ZRX1200 wrote:
Like other countries ^?


No,,

In other countries they teach math ,science ,history and other practical subjects.Not, liberal propaganda..
FuzzNJ Offline
#50 Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2011, 9:56 PM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
ZRX1200 wrote:
Like other countries ^?


Other countries have longer school years, so kind of, but no, like us. We should be pissed off we're so far behind.
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