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Last post 12 years ago by herfidore. 152 replies replies.
Poll Question : If found guilty,how would you punish the American?
Choice Votes Statistics
death 6 17 %
life in prison 10 28 %
hand him over to the Afghans 1 2 %
send to Guantanamo for a little R&R therapy 1 2 %
psychiatric help & then discharge 17 48 %
Total 35 100%

4 Pages<1234>
What sentence would you give the Army Sergeant who killed the 16 Afghans?
bloody spaniard Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
rfenst wrote:
What does al jazeera report?


Applause (exactly)

I'm not completely against the death penalty for serial killers for instance, where there's been an ongoing taking of life or possibly a national leader implementing genocide as a government policy, etc. But a one time occurrence from a veteran who's probably cracked under non-stop pressure in a hostile land, doesn't merit death IMHO. He needs our prayers & psychiatric help. If you're going to courtmartial him (political kangaroo court IMO) & sentence him to death, give death to the administrators (and politicians) as well who put him in the field. They are also indirectly responsible for endangering lives through their reckless disregard for a fighting man's psychological well being...
DrafterX Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,582
Think

so, if I go nuts and take out a bunch of people here at work my boss should be held responsible..??
bloody spaniard Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
DrafterX wrote:
Think
so, if I go nuts and take out a bunch of people here at work my boss should be held responsible..??



If he knew that repeatedly raping you in the exec bathroom was driving you to maniacal rage- yes.
But in all seriousness, an infantryman is subjected to a lot more stress than an IT guy. I don't think you'll be taking anyone out for at least a few years...
DrafterX Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,582
no dought an infantryman has more stress than I do, (but I do get pissed off every now and then) but he wasn't drafted... he was being paid to do a job.. If he weas losing it he should have told somebody.. you'd think someone working with him would have noticed something. Think

but you can't really, "give death to the administrators (and politicians) as well who put him in the field. They are also indirectly responsible for endangering lives through their reckless disregard for a fighting man's psychological well being..." as you put it... he has to be held acountable for his actions...
bloody spaniard Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Yes, you're right, but I was exaggerating to make a point about accountability. I don't think that the insane can be held accountable due to lack of rational thought.
IMHO a man doesn't reach the rank of sergeant if his performance hasn't been above average. For him to have deviated into serial murderer means that something must have snapped. The cursory finger of blame may point at him but ultimately it is not that simple unless one wants to score political points.
teedubbya Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
sorry to hear about your but raping drafter. hope it heals.



If it is true he slaughtered men, women and children. His actions. That is more than cursory finger pointing. If true he DID it. Personal responsibility. I don't care if he hates his mother, wet the bed until his teens or had a drill sgt that took away his teddy bear.

there are real issues as to if we should be there anymore, and there are serious mental health issues/quesitons for troops abroad...... but if a kid snaps and kills people in the school you can eyeball the "bullies" but the kid did it. same here.
Gene363 Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,869
We need to GTFO of the s'hole and bring our military home. Ben Ladden is dead, what are we waiting for, is there some magic f'ing number of dead GIs that will make it OK to leave?
Gene363 Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,869
DrafterX wrote:
no dought an infantryman has more stress than I do, (but I do get pissed off every now and then) but he wasn't drafted... he was being paid to do a job.. If he weas losing it he should have told somebody.. you'd think someone working with him would have noticed something. Think

but you can't really, "give death to the administrators (and politicians) as well who put him in the field. They are also indirectly responsible for endangering lives through their reckless disregard for a fighting man's psychological well being..." as you put it... he has to be held acountable for his actions...


You need to speak to someone you know that is in the military and ask them how it works asking for mental help.

Yeah, they are a volunteer army, but they volunteered to protect our nation, not commit slow suicide by deployment after deployment. Lots of our soldiers are suffering TBI only to to told 'walk it off' and get ready for another deployment. Let the current and past White House occupiers send their daughters to the front line if they are so hot for war.

teedubbya Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Gene we agree. Doesn't that piss you off?
Gene363 Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,869
teedubbya wrote:
Gene we agree. Doesn't that piss you off?



Not even a little.
teedubbya Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Lol
bloody spaniard Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
teedubbya wrote:
Gene we agree. Doesn't that piss you off?


You agree with Gene??? I thought you wanted him in front of the firing wall if he did it, brother. You're hardcore.
Not me. Like Gene said, those boys are under unbelievable stress- something only THEY would understand. They are (under)paid employees in a very bloody theater subject to idealistic Marquis of Queensbury rules that are implemented by holier than thou bureaucrats (civilian AND military) from their big desks in ivory towers far away for OTHERS to obey. Ironic, since most of those calling the shots live a life of loopholes and double standards when it comes to THEM.

Sorry, but if I were commanding those poor "boys", I'd give them the benefit of the doubt whether they killed civilians, pissed on enemy corpses, or burned their "holy book". Like I said, I'd leave it in the hands of the medical experts before I passed judgement and a death sentence would be out of the question.
teedubbya Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Appropriate punishment if found guilty during a fair trial. That could be death.

I agree that larger issues need to be looked at. But not as a pass or excuse. This dude is done. Ie legitimate issue to address but not an excuse.
teedubbya Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Would you grant the same mercy to the cop in Chicago?
bloody spaniard Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
You'd be fragged (not to be confused with fa gged so don't get excited) after a week on the field.Frying pan

And no, I don't know about the Chicago police(?) case. "Ignoant" me stopped reading newspapers & following internet stories like that years ago. lol
teedubbya Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I think the victims seem to influence the level of outrage.
bloody spaniard Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
teedubbya wrote:
I think the victims seem to influence the level of outrage.


I would give the police the benefit of the doubt as well, brother... unless they were Nixon's white house, band uniform cops.
teedubbya Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
If you could push a button and all Muslims in the world would be forced into a choice between sincerely choosing Christianity as judged by god or vaporizing on the spot would you hit the button?
teedubbya Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Blood I'm referencing the cop that shot the kid as identified by mrs sledn
bloody spaniard Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
^ Sorry, I plead ignorance.

teedubbya wrote:
If you could push a button and all Muslims in the world would be forced into a choice between sincerely choosing Christianity as judged by god or vaporizing on the spot would you hit the button?


Nope. That has to be a PERSONAL choice. There are good muslims & bad muslims. God knows who they are & I'm sure that He'll welcome the good ones. Unfortunately the bad ones are going to see to it that they are all "vaporized".
teedubbya Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Interesting. Cool.

Wouldn't really judge either way. I might push the button either by choice or clumsy buffoonery.
bloody spaniard Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
LOL- I can relate.
Got a link for the Chicago case?
Kingfisher Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 12-01-2006
Posts: 209

The Medal of Honor...............
bloody spaniard Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Kingfisher wrote:
The Medal of Honor...............


Ni calvo, ni con tres pelucas.
I wouldn't go to either extreme.
teedubbya Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
It was the kid whos parents called the cops in because they couldn't control him and the cop shot and killed him because he had a knife. Folks in here kept saying butter knife but I think it was a kitchen knife.
teedubbya Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Most in here wanted the cop dead.
bloody spaniard Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
teedubbya wrote:
It was the kid whos parents called the cops in because they couldn't control him and the cop shot and killed him because he had a knife. Folks in here kept saying butter knife but I think it was a kitchen knife.



(sigh) I thought we already went over this.
If you can't control a teenage autistic kid without killing him, you shouldn't be a cop nor a parent for that matter.
teedubbya Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
You see.
bloody spaniard Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
teedubbya wrote:
Most in here wanted the cop dead.



I think that cop is better suited to be a mall cop minus baton. Squirt gun would be fine.
But he doesn't deserve death. A long stay in a mental institution cleaning bedpans...
teedubbya Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
You see.
teedubbya Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
All a matter of perspective.
teedubbya Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Try giving the cop the same break as the soldier. It becomes harder.
bloody spaniard Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
With the advent of mistakes discovered thanks to dna testing, I'm up in the air about the death penalty, TW.
But as I've stated before, I wouldn't lose sleep over its implementation on repeat serial murderers & Government folks who institute state- sanctioned genocide.
bloody spaniard Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
teedubbya wrote:
Try giving the cop the same break as the soldier. It becomes harder.


Not really- see above.
teedubbya Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Not being a ******. Just saying the cop probably has issues and pressures too and didn't slaughter a bunch of people including kids. He very well may be justified. If one deserves empathy and compassion certainly both do. Regardless of who the victim is.
teedubbya Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Understood blood. Anti death penalty myself.
teedubbya Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Anti death penalty but if it is the law somewhere apply it evenly whether I like it or not.
bloody spaniard Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
teedubbya wrote:
Not being a ******. Just saying the cop probably has issues and pressures too and didn't slaughter a bunch of people including kids. He very well may be justified. If one deserves empathy and compassion certainly both do. Regardless of who the victim is.



I agree.
I remember wanting capital punishment on the cops now that I think about it. LOL Probably a reaction to uninformed folks coming to the defense of the cops w/o (their) understanding the relatively harmless implications of an autistic. Having said that, I came down equally hard on the cops AND parents (and ignorant posters-lol).
teedubbya Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I misread. No death for you on the cop. Good on you. Thought you said otherwise earlier. My bad.

Having a deep convo here. Not trying to provoke anything.
teedubbya Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Oops. Post cross. Either way not trying to be dickish. Just thinking. Don't know wher I fall half the time. Sorting through things.
bloody spaniard Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Don't sweat it. LOL The older I get, the less I seem to know... Funny how that works. And, no, it's not dementia (I hope).
Now back to the soldier...

Gotta run. Good chatting with you.
teedubbya Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
By the way consistency is overrated. Everyone is a hypocrit to an extent. I am. I'm amused by those that think they are not.
teedubbya Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Take care blood. You are a good egg.
DrafterX Offline
#94 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,582
Gene363 wrote:
You need to speak to someone you know that is in the military and ask them how it works asking for mental help.

Yeah, they are a volunteer army, but they volunteered to protect our nation, not commit slow suicide by deployment after deployment. Lots of our soldiers are suffering TBI only to to told 'walk it off' and get ready for another deployment. Let the current and past White House occupiers send their daughters to the front line if they are so hot for war.




Gene, i know many in the military and i will ask the question.. most of the guys i know have families and do very well... gotta wonder if something at home may have set this guy also... it's bad all the way around.. making excuses for his actions is pointless.. he did some serious damage.. not just to the people and families he took out... it saddens me greatly....
z6joker9 Offline
#95 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2011
Posts: 5,902
If a soldier snapped and killed 16 Americans, would you feel differently? If an afgani snapped and killed 16 American soldiers, would we let his own country make the decision regarding his fate?

This is a tough one because it can't be thought about in a vacuum. There are huge international relation ramifications. I'm not sure what I would do.
Stinkdyr Offline
#96 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
The real answer is, this incident DID NOT HAPPEN, because Maobama and Bela Pelosi were elected to end the wars and bring our troops home, which of course they did, cuz they wouldn't lie just to get elected, right?

And cuz the Democans are so different from the Republicrats, right?


Pray


bloody spaniard Offline
#97 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Latest insights on this soldier:

http://news.yahoo.com/lawyer-afghan-suspects-friend-had-leg-blown-off-033637373.html
teedubbya Offline
#98 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
doesn't change my take at all. I'd guess there are a lot of people who could justify slaughtering people based on their personal experiences. Reading this forum on a daily basis would rate high on the list LOL
DrafterX Offline
#99 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,582
teedubbya wrote:
doesn't change my take at all. I'd guess there are a lot of people who could justify slaughtering people based on their personal experiences. Reading this forum on a daily basis would rate high on the list LOL



ya.... but I don't think I'd take out any inocent people... just the people that piss me off... that's the decent way to go nuts... Mellow
DrMaddVibe Offline
#100 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,554
Afghan Soldier Killed a U.S. Marine Last Month, But Pentagon Didn’t Reveal the Treachery
By ROBERT BURNS, Associated Press
March 16, 2012

The transfer case containing the remains of Marine Lance Cpl. Edward J. Dycus, 22, of Greenville, Miss., arrive at Dover Air Force Base, Del., on Feb. 2, 2012. An Afghan soldier shot Dycus at an outpost in southwestern Afghanistan in February in a previously undisclosed case of Afghan treachery that marked at least the seventh killing of an American military member by his supposed ally in the past six weeks, Marine officials said. (AP Photo/Jose Luis Magana, File)
WASHINGTON (AP) - An Afghan soldier shot to death a 22-year-old Marine at an outpost in southwestern Afghanistan last month in a previously undisclosed case of apparent Afghan treachery that marked at least the seventh killing of an American military member by his supposed ally in the past six weeks, Marine officials said.

Lance Cpl. Edward J. Dycus of Greenville, Miss., was shot in the back of the head on Feb. 1 while standing guard at an Afghan-U.S. base in the Marja district of Helmand province. The exact circumstances have not been disclosed, but the Dycus family has been notified that he was killed by an Afghan soldier.

Marine officials discussed the matter on condition of anonymity because it is still under investigation.

When the Pentagon announced Dycus' death the day after the shooting, it said he died "while conducting combat operations" in Helmand. It made no mention of treachery, which has become a growing problem for U.S. and allied forces as they work closely with Afghan forces to wind down the war.

The Associated Press inquired about the Dycus case after Maj. Gen. John Toolan, the top Marine commander in Afghanistan at the time, said in an AP interview March 7 that the Afghan government has been embarrassed by recent cases of Afghan soldiers turning their guns on their supposed partners.

"I had one just a month ago where a lance corporal was killed, shot in the back of the head, and the Afghan minister of defense was here the next day" to discuss custody of the shooter, Toolan said, speaking from his Regional Command-Southwest headquarters at Camp Leatherneck.

After a negotiation aimed at ensuring the Afghan suspect is prosecuted, the Americans turned him over to Afghan government custody, another official said.

Toolan did not further identify the victim. He mentioned the case while explaining the importance of stopping Afghan treachery as U.S. forces step back from a direct combat role in Helmand and other areas of Afghanistan to a new mission of advising and assisting Afghan soldiers and police. That role, which is in full swing in Helmand, puts U.S. and other NATO troops in closer contact with Afghans at a time when tensions between the two sides have been heightened by an American soldier's alleged killing Sunday of 16 Afghan civilians.

NATO has approved a series of measures to help reduce the risks of attacks. They include embedding counterintelligence officers in the Afghan army and its training schools to detect people behaving suspiciously, increasing the number of Afghan intelligence officers, and making sure Afghan troops are paid regularly and get regular leave. Random drug testing will also be implemented.

"The Marines and soldiers that are doing the advising work out here understand that if they can't live side by side and operate day in and day out with the Afghans, then they are not going to be able to achieve what they need to achieve as far as relationship building," Toolan said.

A central premise of the war strategy is that success cannot be achieved until Afghan forces are capable of providing security largely on their own and that this will not happen unless American and other coalition forces partner with Afghans at every level to train, advise and mentor them.

In the latest setback, an Afghan civilian interpreter at a British base in Helmand province stole a coalition pickup truck, drove it at high speed onto an airfield ramp and crashed it just as a plane carrying Defense Secretary Leon Panetta was landing Wednesday.

Lt. Gen. Curtis Scaparotti, the No. 2 overall commander in Afghanistan, told reporters that the truck was headed toward a group of U.S. Marines assembled on the tarmac for Panetta's arrival. Neither the Marines nor others in Panetta's welcoming party were injured; the Afghan died of burns sustained in the crash.

Dycus was assigned to 2nd battalion, 9th Marine regiment, 2nd Marine Division from Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Known to friends and family as "Eddie," he graduated from Riverside High School in Greenville in 2008. According to a Mississippi state Senate resolution honoring his life and service, Dycus deployed to Afghanistan on his 22nd birthday, Dec. 12, 2011.

Dycus' killing happened nearly three weeks before the burning of Muslim holy books at Bagram air base, an event that American officials said was accidental but that triggered a wave of protests across Afghanistan and is linked to six other killings of American troops by Afghans.

Two U.S. soldiers were gunned down by an Afghan soldier Feb 23 in Nangahar province; an Air Force lieutenant colonel and an Army major were killed inside the Afghan government office in Kabul and two Army paratroopers were killed by Afghan soldiers in Kandahar province on March 1.

In none of those cases did the Pentagon's casualty announcement mention that the Americans were killed by their supposed Afghan allies. It said, for example, that the two killed Feb. 23 died of "wounds suffered when their unit came under small arms fire." It happened amid an anti-American protest outside the Americans' base. Two protesters were killed by Afghan police there before the Afghan soldier turned his gun on U.S. troops.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/afghan-soldier-killed-us-marine-last-month-pentagon-didn-t-reveal-treachery
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