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Edward Snowden - Patriot or Traitor?
dpnewell Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
What say you?
Taps86 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 4,691
The only true "HERO" is a dead one.


It may be an heroic act, but HE sure as hell is no HERO. The term "HERO" is way to freely used in the media.
dpnewell Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
Point taken. Question reworded.
DrafterX Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
He failed at his job... I wouldn't rob a bank with him but I might buy him a beer... Mellow
Taps86 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 4,691
dpnewell wrote:
Point taken. Question reworded.


I don't know about y'all, but with my Job I know damn well what I can and can't share freely. They have training every 6 months on what can and can't be shared. At the end of the training is a document you sign that basically tells you that you can be tried in the court of law for any leakage of said information.


Granted I don't know how anyone didn't know this was going on.
dpnewell Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
Taps86 wrote:
I don't know about y'all, but with my Job I know damn well what I can and can't share freely. They have training every 6 months on what can and can't be shared. At the end of the training is a document you sign that basically tells you that you can be tried in the court of law for any leakage of said information.


Granted I don't know how anyone didn't know this was going on.


Are you sure you're allowed to share this information? You may wish to check at your next training. Sarcasm


Seriously, if a government agency that you worked for was breaking the law, violating the US Constitution, and stomping on the rights of US Citizens, would you speak up, or go about your business? Personally, I would hope that I'd speak up, but no one really knows what they would do in such a situation.
Taps86 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 4,691
dpnewell wrote:
Are you sure you're allowed to share this information? You may wish to check at your next training. Sarcasm


Seriously, if a government agency that you worked for was breaking the law, violating the US Constitution, and stomping on the rights of US Citizens, would you speak up, or go about your business? Personally, I would hope that I'd speak up, but no one really knows what they would do in such a situation.


I'd speak up in a heart beat.

I deal with Local and Federal law enforcement weekly, However that is not before they go through the Legal department 1st.
HockeyDad Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
Edward Snowden is "dead man walking". Just like the US Constitution, freedom, and democracy.
CelticBomber Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
Taps86 wrote:
I'd speak up in a heart beat.

I deal with Local and Federal law enforcement weekly, However that is not before they go through the Legal department 1st.



I once held a Special Category clearance above top secret while in the Air Force working in the Comm Center 20 yrs ago... I worked with nothing but super secret documents all day long and sometimes I'd go back to my room and turn on the TV and hear a reporter read word for word a document I had just handled. Used to really tick me off. There have always been leaks and there will always be leaks. I would like to think that if I was aware of some government program that was against everything the Constitution stood for I'd say something... if I didn't have a family to worry about. No matter how right this kid might have been exposing this stuff his life is ruined. They will make sure of that. Only if I was sure I'd be protected like the Identity of Deep Throat was would I throw my life onto the craps table and roll the dice.
DrafterX Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
HockeyDad wrote:
Edward Snowden is "dead man walking". Just like the US Constitution, freedom, and democracy.



but wasn't he under da cone..?? Huh
ZRX1200 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
Yeah contact the "legal" dept!

LMMFAO!!!!!!

What Le Hockey Dad said.. ...
Taps86 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 4,691
ZRX1200 wrote:
Yeah contact the "legal" dept!

LMMFAO!!!!!!

What Le Hockey Dad said.. ...



You would be surprised at how many times a week we get served with warrants for Child Pornography....
DadZilla3 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2009
Posts: 4,633
HockeyDad wrote:
Edward Snowden is "dead man walking". Just like the US Constitution, freedom, and democracy.

The voters were promised that this would be the most transparent administration in American history so Snowden, the US Constitution, freedom, and democracy should be in no real danger.

Riiiiight.
CelticBomber Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
DadZilla3 wrote:
The voters were promised that this would be the most transparent administration in American history so Snowden, the US Constitution, freedom, and democracy should be in no real danger.

Riiiiight.



Instead we elected Bush for 4 terms.
tailgater Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Patriot.

Look. I feel that this administration is failing America. I have a political bias and part of me is in favor of anything that hurts Obama and his party without hurting our country.

But lets be honest here.
The only reason that this is news is because it's 100% true. You can't "leak" lies and get in trouble. He leaked the truth and it's friggin ugly as hell.

And he did so knowing that he'd be hunted down.

Taps86 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 4,691
CelticBomber wrote:
Instead we elected Bush for 4 terms.


LMAO!

Applause Applause Applause

You would think Obama signed this law into place back in 2002 at the rate my party is going.


The ignorance is getting out of control.
tailgater Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Taps86 wrote:
The only true "HERO" is a dead one.

.



??

So when Joe the Neighbor rushes into a burning building to save some kids, he isn't a hero if he makes it out alive?
Or the guy who jumps into traffic to push a child out of danger, and is hit by a truck but survives? He's not a hero?
How about the person who gives up a kidney to a complete stranger?

I don't think you thought that one out before you typed it.

I agree the term is used too loosely, but your prerequisite is off base.

ZRX1200 Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
4 terms????


Taps you realize the Kenyan isn't applying this the same way Bush was right? I mean you're not ignorant like "your" party.

Taps86 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 4,691
tailgater wrote:
??

So when Joe the Neighbor rushes into a burning building to save some kids, he isn't a hero if he makes it out alive?
Or the guy who jumps into traffic to push a child out of danger, and is hit by a truck but survives? He's not a hero?
How about the person who gives up a kidney to a complete stranger?

I don't think you thought that one out before you typed it.

I agree the term is used too loosely, but your prerequisite is off base.




Those are all Heroic Acts or Heroism.

However the true meaning of a HERO is one of immortal being.

Hero's are The men and women who have died on the battlefield for the life you and I are so freely able to live.
Taps86 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 4,691
ZRX1200 wrote:
4 terms????


Taps you realize the Kenyan isn't applying this the same way Bush was right? I mean you're not ignorant like "your" party.



Well in my line of work nothing has changed before or after Osama.
ZRX1200 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
Mine either.....
Taps86 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 4,691
ZRX1200 wrote:
Mine either.....



The government has been doing this for years and nothing is going to change. Whether we like it or not.

I had to google this as I did remember reading this. People are just blowing smoke now when we all were told about this multiple times in the last 10 years.

This is when I started to question my party.


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/16/politics/16program.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Quote:

The previously undisclosed decision to permit some eavesdropping inside the country without court approval was a major shift in American intelligence-gathering practices, particularly for the National Security Agency, whose mission is to spy on communications abroad. As a result, some officials familiar with the continuing operation have questioned whether the surveillance has stretched, if not crossed, constitutional limits on legal searches.

"This is really a sea change," said a former senior official who specializes in national security law. "It's almost a mainstay of this country that the N.S.A. only does foreign searches."

Nearly a dozen current and former officials, who were granted anonymity because of the classified nature of the program, discussed it with reporters for The New York Times because of their concerns about the operation's legality and oversight.

According to those officials and others, reservations about aspects of the program have also been expressed by Senator John D. Rockefeller IV, the West Virginia Democrat who is the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, and a judge presiding over a secret court that oversees intelligence matters. Some of the questions about the agency's new powers led the administration to temporarily suspend the operation last year and impose more restrictions, the officials said.

The Bush administration views the operation as necessary so that the agency can move quickly to monitor communications that may disclose threats to the United States, the officials said. Defenders of the program say it has been a critical tool in helping disrupt terrorist plots and prevent attacks inside the United States.


Quote:
At an April hearing on the Patriot Act renewal, Senator Barbara A. Mikulski, Democrat of Maryland, asked Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales and Robert S. Mueller III, the director of the F.B.I., "Can the National Security Agency, the great electronic snooper, spy on the American people?"

"Generally," Mr. Mueller said, "I would say generally, they are not allowed to spy or to gather information on American citizens."
Gene363 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,870
I'd be down for jury nullification. ram27bat
Taps86 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 4,691
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/06/obama-bush-nsa-phone-comapred.html





Quote:
At the end of a press conference this afternoon about something nobody cared about, President Obama took a question from the press and, in doing so, provided his first remarks on twin NSA programs that collect metadata on domestic phone calls and examine the content of online communications by foreigners, respectively. The programs are not exactly new — both began under President Bush. Indeed, on May 11, 2006, Bush appeared in the White House's Diplomatic Reception Room to offer his own defense of the NSA's phone-snooping efforts. Seven years apart, history appears to be repeating itself.

Bush: "After September the 11th, I vowed to the American people that our government would do everything within the law to protect them against another terrorist attack."

Obama: "When I came into this office, I made two commitments that are more important than any that I make: number one, to keep the American people safe and, number two, to uphold the Constitution."

Bush: "The privacy of ordinary Americans is fiercely protected in all our activities."

Obama: "That includes what I consider to be a constitutional right to privacy."

Bush: "The intelligence activities I authorized are lawful and have been briefed to appropriate members of Congress, both Republican and Democrat."

Obama: "When it comes to telephone calls, every member of Congress has been briefed on this program. With respect to all these programs the relevant intelligence committees are fully briefed."

Bush: "The government does not listen to domestic phone calls without court approval."

Obama: "Nobody is listening to your telephone calls ... If the intelligence community actually wants to listen to a phone call, they've got to go back to a federal judge."

Bush: "So far we've been very successful in preventing another attack on our soil."

Obama: "They make a difference in our capacity to anticipate and prevent possible terrorist activity."

Bush: "As a general matter, every time sensitive intelligence is leaked, it hurts our ability to defeat this enemy."

Obama: "I don't welcome leaks, because there's a reason why these programs are classified."

ZRX1200 Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yB3n9fu-rM&feature=share
tailgater Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Taps86 wrote:
Those are all Heroic Acts or Heroism.

However the true meaning of a HERO is one of immortal being.

Hero's are The men and women who have died on the battlefield for the life you and I are so freely able to live.


The term is used too often.
But I strongly disagree with your finite rule.
paulkeck Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
one that is considered to some as a Patriot will be considered by others a traitor!!
and one that is considered to some as a Traitor will be known by others as a Patriot!!

Profound words from Paul B. Keck true American Patriot
Taps86 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 4,691
tailgater wrote:
The term is used too often.
But I strongly disagree with your finite rule.


We all have opinions and I respect yours as well.
jackconrad Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
One should always follow his conscience in matters of such importance...


It's also too bad reasonable people ignored the obvious warnings that many tried to give you before electing to be Socialist...


Taps86 Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 4,691
We would be losing 1000s of Americans right now in Syria if the shoe was turned.
ZRX1200 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
Were lining soldiers up in Jordan RIGHT NOW pal.

Hope you're ready for 5,000 "refugees" here at home as Kerry is poised to do.
Taps86 Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 4,691
ZRX1200 wrote:
Were lining soldiers up in Jordan RIGHT NOW pal.

Hope you're ready for 5,000 "refugees" here at home as Kerry is poised to do.


Than that would explain why last Friday 3rd army at SHAW deployed a **** load of personal to Cyprus.
ZRX1200 Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-76237586/
Taps86 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2013
Posts: 4,691
ZRX1200 wrote:
http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-76237586/



FU*KING Liberals..... Keep them contained to the Liberal states and I have no problem....
nine999 Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 07-27-2005
Posts: 14,622
where are the snowdens of yesteryear?
teedubbya Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Secret program approved by all three branches of government. leaked. much as I'm against the program this man is no Patriot.
HockeyDad Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
teedubbya wrote:
Secret program approved by all three brances of government. leaked. much as I'm against the program this man is no Patriot.



That's the kind of comment that will keep you out of the camps. Well played.
ZRX1200 Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
Indeed.

teedubbya Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
whew
DrafterX Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
WWCD.....??? Think
HockeyDad Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
Prolly vanish. **** CROS.
DrafterX Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
OhMyGod
ZRX1200 Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
Charlie?

He's living large in Bend off of his "London money".
nine999 Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 07-27-2005
Posts: 14,622
egads.... just read a few stories on him, since i had no clue....
wow. i am now scared. hero-no. patriot? as in robin hood maybe. but perhaps this is how things change.
big ass balls though. tough to do what one believes is the right thing to do.
i believe we need the government to keep some secrets and stuff, but i, as a public servant am ignorant as to how far these entities go.

you ever see the movie enemy of the state?




nine


8trackdisco Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,103
Last week the IRS.
This week the NSA.

Patriot.

But with each flaw exposed by a patriot tightens the federal noose tighter.

The flaws disappear and so do the chances to regain our freedoms.

We'll end up in some hi tech, Syria like self destruction. Maybe the American freedom fighters could get arms from Russia.
DrafterX Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
8trackdisco wrote:
Maybe the American freedom fighters could get arms from Russia.



or killer robot soldiers from India.... Mellow
tailgater Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
teedubbya wrote:
Secret program approved by all three branches of government. leaked. much as I'm against the program this man is no Patriot.


Actually, the original patriots were traitors to their parent country.
So by the purist form of the definition, I'd say you may be mistaken.
ZRX1200 Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
Sales of 1984 are up 67% !!!!


Go G. ORWELL!
DrafterX Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
pa·tri·ot
/ˈpātrēət/Noun
1.A person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.
2.An automated surface-to-air missile system designed for early detection and interception of missiles or aircraft.



Mellow
riverdog Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 03-28-2008
Posts: 2,600
teedubbya wrote:
Secret program approved by all three branches of government. leaked. much as I'm against the program this man is no Patriot.


Yup, from here. Maybe it'll keep me out of the camps too.
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