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There's Nothing About Abortion in the Bible
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teedubbya Offline
#201 Posted: Thu, Jul 25 2013, 1:28 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
bloody spaniard wrote:
I know it's not fair but why do I get slight dry heaves from imagined yeasty feet smells coming out of a partly dirty bathtub almost every time you guys broach homemade brew recipes?

I'm sure your elixirs are delicious and better tasting than the store bought beer.Mellow




Much better than anything you would buy. Very controled, enclosed, clean and sanitary process by necessity. Specific yeast strains from the lab that are tailored to the brew and sometimes the exact strains used by the pros.... I don't get the hangover headache etc I do from the crap beer in the stores (bud/miller/coors etc). You may not beleive it but it is better. It's not like the swill folks used to brew in the 60s-70s

I'll put the wheat beer I just kegged up against anything in the stores.
teedubbya Offline
#202 Posted: Thu, Jul 25 2013, 1:31 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
bloody spaniard wrote:
Do you ever worry that you may get food/metal poisoning? (serious question)


from what? stainless steel? glass? the whole process has to be clean and sanitized.... the ingredients are grain, water, hops and yeast.... hops are a natural preservative and alcohol tends to kill things too.... where would toxins or poisons come from that wouldn't be in store bought bottled beer...... you have more control over such things doing it yourself. It involves a 60-90 minute boil. I even use vodka in the air lock as overkill.

have you ever eaten homemade bread?
HockeyDad Offline
#203 Posted: Thu, Jul 25 2013, 1:38 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
I don't use vodka in my airlocks because I don't want my final product to have a Russian accent.
teedubbya Offline
#204 Posted: Thu, Jul 25 2013, 1:43 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
use Grey Goose

I've used starsan before too
teedubbya Offline
#205 Posted: Thu, Jul 25 2013, 1:46 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
HD I may hold on the brew day for a couple weeks and do the octoberfest. need to find a good recipe though.
HockeyDad Offline
#206 Posted: Thu, Jul 25 2013, 1:53 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
teedubbya wrote:
HD I may hold on the brew day for a couple weeks and do the octoberfest. need to find a good recipe though.



Secondary fermentation is two months at lager temperatures. That is why you have to start now. Check out Norther Brewer's recipe.
teedubbya Offline
#207 Posted: Thu, Jul 25 2013, 1:56 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
HockeyDad wrote:
Secondary fermentation is two months at lager temperatures. That is why you have to start now. Check out Norther Brewer's recipe.



will do. I just think I may not be able to get everything I need by this weekend and am traveling next. We'll see. I'll check northern though.
teedubbya Offline
#208 Posted: Thu, Jul 25 2013, 1:57 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
maybe I'll grab their instructions and buy everything here
bloody spaniard Offline
#209 Posted: Thu, Jul 25 2013, 2:09 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Sounds pretty damn good, TW. Beer
Now I've got to get that Lucy stomping grapes in Italy outta my head.
DrafterX Offline
#210 Posted: Thu, Jul 25 2013, 2:11 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
was Snoopy there..?? Huh
bloody spaniard Offline
#211 Posted: Thu, Jul 25 2013, 2:25 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
DrafterX wrote:
was Snoopy there..?? Huh

No but Ricky, Fred, and Ethel were... and if you tell me you enjoyed Fred and Aunt Ethel's fights, I'll Rollo you.
DrafterX Offline
#212 Posted: Thu, Jul 25 2013, 2:27 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
the gorilla cookie lady..?? Huh
tailgater Offline
#213 Posted: Thu, Jul 25 2013, 5:18 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
You do realize that statement is false, right?


I don't know that, no.

So 18 year old Vicky says "I'd like a tubal ligation".

The nurse/doctor says "OK, how about next tuesday"

Vicky arrives and they slicer her open, tie the tubes and sew her up.

No word about the inherent danger, the fact that reversing it would be difficult or maybe impossible. She's 18 but the decision is more permanent than a tatoo and it will affect her forever.

They don't broach these subjects as a routine, part of their MO?

Sure, they'll be nothing invasive, like, say, an ultrasound. With all that icky gooey gel she'd be furious at the lack of freedom and all.
teedubbya Offline
#214 Posted: Thu, Jul 25 2013, 6:24 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
My dentist makes me get an ultrasound of my balls and makes me look at it before every procedure.

Education is common before every procedure. Forcing a procedure before every procedure as a matter of law is a new thing to my knowledge.
Brewha Offline
#215 Posted: Thu, Jul 25 2013, 9:19 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
tailgater wrote:
And Brew,
I'm not asking to remove the woman's freedoms.
She still maintains 100% of her right to abort her child.

And if you want to prevent coercion, please see planned parenthood.

And if a few girls change their mind? Do you think they'll be angry and resentful? Or grateful.

I know it's not perfect.
But it's a pretty decent compromise. Which is why I am astounded at the level of resistance I hear.



TG, I think I understand your point of view and assessment of this complex issue. And while I differ with both, it seems obvious that you feel compelled to do the right thing. I can respect that.

I myself try to keep in mind that no matter how clearly I seem to see, or how compelling my assessment, I could still could be as wrong as wrong gets. It's a truism of what we are.

Have you ever heard the phrase 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions'? Well in your case it is also well lit. And the best part, is that from your vantage point this is exactly true of me . . . .


And I recon that's fair.
Brewha Offline
#216 Posted: Thu, Jul 25 2013, 9:35 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
DrafterX wrote:
let me go ahead and throw another log on da fire here...... Is the morning after pill ok..?? Huh

Yes, but before you give them the pill, they have to look at photos of the best and brightest honor students from the local high school (only the blue eyes ones, with straight white teeth).

That would be edumication, ya know?
DrafterX Offline
#217 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 8:07 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
There's got to be a morning after
If we can hold on through the night
We have a chance to find the sunshine
Let's keep on looking for the light

Oh, can't you see the morning after?
It's waiting right outside the storm
Why don't we cross the bridge together
And find a place that's safe and warm?

Whistle Whistle Whistle
tailgater Offline
#218 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 8:13 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:
TG, I think I understand your point of view and assessment of this complex issue. And while I differ with both, it seems obvious that you feel compelled to do the right thing. I can respect that.

I myself try to keep in mind that no matter how clearly I seem to see, or how compelling my assessment, I could still could be as wrong as wrong gets. It's a truism of what we are.

Have you ever heard the phrase 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions'? Well in your case it is also well lit. And the best part, is that from your vantage point this is exactly true of me . . . .


And I recon that's fair.


In this vision of yours, are we walking hand in hand?
HockeyDad Offline
#219 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 8:17 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
DrafterX wrote:
There's got to be a morning after
If we can hold on through the night
We have a chance to find the sunshine
Let's keep on looking for the light

Oh, can't you see the morning after?
It's waiting right outside the storm
Why don't we cross the bridge together
And find a place that's safe and warm?

Whistle Whistle Whistle



That didn't work so well for the S.S. Poseidon.
teedubbya Offline
#220 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 9:41 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I'm with Tailgator on this.

I think the government and the law needs to get much deeper into the doctor patient relationship and way more into health care in general. I even think they should require mandatory HIV testing on everyone (using a non invasive swave) and everyone should be required to get a full body ultrasound to make sure they are not hiding a chechnian in thei belly.

cha ching
tailgater Offline
#221 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 10:28 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
teedubbya wrote:
I'm with Tailgator on this.

I think the government and the law needs to get much deeper into the doctor patient relationship and way more into health care in general. I even think they should require mandatory HIV testing on everyone (using a non invasive swave) and everyone should be required to get a full body ultrasound to make sure they are not hiding a chechnian in thei belly.

cha ching


Doctor, I know you're going to use surgical instruments to reach into my womb, destroy the developing fetus and then rip it out of me.
Just don't use that gel on my belly or cruelly let me listen to the heartbeat.
Because THAT would be too much information.

Oh the humanity.


For the record, I'm glad I live in the Boston area.
The medical facilities up here DO inform you to the nth degree when you schedule surgery of any kind. They don't ask if you want to know. They don't just hand out a pamphlet.
They tell you what is going on and ask if you want even MORE information.

It's so friggin detailed that patients act like their junior doctors or at least stayed at a holiday inn express the night before.

The lone exception to this is when a girl gets an abortion.

Because, well, her rights and all that jazz.

So all you people out in redneckville can keep your back woods witch doctors who are afraid to let you know whats going to happen when they slice you open to let out the evil spirits.
teedubbya Offline
#222 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 10:35 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I agree. Patient educaiton is very important and they should be doing so. And I am glad we are trying to bring the government in to the doctor patient relationship to make sure it is happening since apparantly doctors are not doing so on their own. I also think the government should require more procedures prior to procedures since this is the first to my knowledge. The government has our best interest at heart and it is about time they step up.

When a girl gets an abortion now she merely gets all the infromation in the same way and format she would any and all other medical procedure whether in Boston or anywhere else. It is important the government (who knows better) ratchet that up. We should do it as a pilot and roll it out into other procedures. There are lots of medical rocedures that have moral implicaitons and we need to make sure the patient is considering them.

I agree with you tail. And the cost is not a concern. This is important and not political in any way.
DrafterX Offline
#223 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 10:37 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
Will they take your guns away if you get an abortion..?? Huh
victor809 Offline
#224 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 10:41 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:


The lone exception to this is when a girl gets an abortion.





You keep saying this as if you think it is true.

You do realize that an abortion is a medical procedure, and is performed by doctors, who actually do all necessary ultrasounds (to ensure fetus presence, and eventually absence, and yes, it requires TRANSVAGINAL, not "gel on the belly"). You do realize that they tell the women every step they are going to take and everything that is happening, right?

If you truly honestly think they just take a patient in, ratchet them open, stick a vacuum up there, move it around willy-nilly till they hear a "thunk" and then send them on their way, you've been deeply misinformed.
teedubbya Offline
#225 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 11:06 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
victor809 wrote:

If you truly honestly think they just take a patient in, ratchet them open, stick a vacuum up there, move it around willy-nilly till they hear a "thunk" and then send them on their way, you've been deeply misinformed.



In fairness he is probably just basing it on his last colonoscopy experience.
tailgater Offline
#226 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 11:07 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
You keep saying this as if you think it is true.

You do realize that an abortion is a medical procedure, and is performed by doctors, who actually do all necessary ultrasounds (to ensure fetus presence, and eventually absence, and yes, it requires TRANSVAGINAL, not "gel on the belly"). You do realize that they tell the women every step they are going to take and everything that is happening, right?

If you truly honestly think they just take a patient in, ratchet them open, stick a vacuum up there, move it around willy-nilly till they hear a "thunk" and then send them on their way, you've been deeply misinformed.


If the TV ultrasound is part of the procedure, then it has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
And a large percentage of abortions are at clinics, where your second paragraph is not too far off.

Either way, the idea is to educate BEFORE the day of the procedure.

If I want a vasectomy, I meet with the doctor. He explains the details. He asks if I understand all the ramifications. I then get a scrip for some good pain medication and the procedure is scheduled.

If I were 18 year old vicky, I go in, they scrape me dry, and I leave.
Whether they use ultrasound at that point is irrelevant.
I think they may also give her a sticker that says "I am woman hear me choose" or something like that.
tailgater Offline
#227 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 11:08 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
teedubbya wrote:
In fairness he is probably just basing it on his last colonoscopy experience.


Bad memories.
Damn doctor kept yelling "ECHO! ECHO! ECHO!"
tailgater Offline
#228 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 11:10 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
DrafterX wrote:
Will they take your guns away if you get an abortion..?? Huh


Today is Friday.
If I decide to buy a gun and get an abortion, guess which one can be completed before 5:00?
DrafterX Offline
#229 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 11:11 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
Mayday, this is Echo Hotel
Mayday, this is Echo Hotel
Mayday, this is Echo Hotel
Hotel Echo, this is Mike November
I can hear your call
Mayday, this is Echo Hotel
Mayday, this is Echo Hotel
Hotel Echo, this is Charlie Delta
I can feel the fear
Mayday, this is Echo Hotel....

Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#230 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 11:11 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
tailgater wrote:
If the TV ultrasound is part of the procedure, then it has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
And a large percentage of abortions are at clinics, where your second paragraph is not too far off.

Either way, the idea is to educate BEFORE the day of the procedure.

If I want a vasectomy, I meet with the doctor. He explains the details. He asks if I understand all the ramifications. I then get a scrip for some good pain medication and the procedure is scheduled.

If I were 18 year old vicky, I go in, they scrape me dry, and I leave.
Whether they use ultrasound at that point is irrelevant.
I think they may also give her a sticker that says "I am woman hear me choose" or something like that.





TG you are wrong on this. The education is roughly similar. Sure it may not rise to the level of trying to convince them not to do it anymore than the vasectomy education would. Lets not pretend this is anything more than an attempt to stop some abortions (which is an admirable goal).
sd72 Offline
#231 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 11:19 AM EST
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
If they showed a video of an actual abortion to them before the operation, and they still wanna get it, you're ok with abortion then?

When my wife got her new knee a couple months ago, they didn't give her a blow by blow of the procedure, just the basics, anastesia can kill you, and follow up care. But he was only one of the countries top joint replacement specialists. Not a lowly clinic doctor.
tailgater Offline
#232 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 11:21 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
teedubbya wrote:
TG you are wrong on this. The education is roughly similar. Sure it may not rise to the level of trying to convince them not to do it anymore than the vasectomy education would. Lets not pretend this is anything more than an attempt to stop some abortions (which is an admirable goal).


My opinion:
Best case: Girl decides against abortion.
Next best: Girl gets the abortion, but is able to reconcile with the gravity of the situation because she was provided better intel.

As for the education being similar? Not from what I've heard.
I know more than one woman who was virtually coaxed towards getting the abortion.
They were told it's easy. It's quick. It won't ruin their futures.
One was literally told that she'd have regrets if she gave the baby away in adoption.
She was never told, however, that many woman who had abortions later regretted that decision.

I admit that my sample size is small. I'm not in the industry.
But even if this happens once it's too many. And it's more than once.

When we started this conversation I was told that I was pushing my own beliefs and infringing on freedoms.
Now I'm being told that the education has always been there.

So which is it?
tailgater Offline
#233 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 11:25 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
sd72 wrote:
If they showed a video of an actual abortion to them before the operation, and they still wanna get it, you're ok with abortion then?

When my wife got her new knee a couple months ago, they didn't give her a blow by blow of the procedure, just the basics, anastesia can kill you, and follow up care. But he was only one of the countries top joint replacement specialists. Not a lowly clinic doctor.


First of all, Yes.
I think abortion should be a legal option. I feel strongly about that. I just hate making it the easy choice.

As for knee surgery?
Has anyone ever regretted getting one? Apples and oranges. If your wife did nothing, a new person doesn't breathe life.
teedubbya Offline
#234 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 11:28 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
tailgater wrote:
My opinion:
Best case: Girl decides against abortion.
Next best: Girl gets the abortion, but is able to reconcile with the gravity of the situation because she was provided better intel.

As for the education being similar? Not from what I've heard.
I know more than one woman who was virtually coaxed towards getting the abortion.
They were told it's easy. It's quick. It won't ruin their futures.
One was literally told that she'd have regrets if she gave the baby away in adoption.
She was never told, however, that many woman who had abortions later regretted that decision.

I admit that my sample size is small. I'm not in the industry.
But even if this happens once it's too many. And it's more than once.

When we started this conversation I was told that I was pushing my own beliefs and infringing on freedoms.
Now I'm being told that the education has always been there.

So which is it?



I didn't tell you anything other than that at the beginning. Your anecdotal evidence aside the educaiton has always been there just as it is for your vasectomy. Todays medical/legal model makes sure of that as a matter of risk management. You want something more. Something that is not being done for other medical procedures. And you have a political/moral reason. It is not clinical. That's fine by me just call it what it is. And don't get bothered when others call for deeper government involvement in other medical matters. it's a back door political move. Nothing more, nothing less.
teedubbya Offline
#235 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 11:31 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
people regret getting all sorts of elective surgeries.... including knee replacements etc. It is important to know the risks and the pros and cons. That sort of eduction should always happen and if it doesn't, any doc not doing so is at risk of suit. That includes abortions, where they are even more at risk do to the spotlight and the controversy. Forcing a woman to have an additinal ultrasound and look at it does little to further educate risk, procedure etc. It may make them see the little troll and fall in love with him. MEH
teedubbya Offline
#236 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 11:34 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I'm working on a case where someone died during a very simple cardiac procedure where they were told it would take an hour and they could drive home that evening. The 1% hits someone. Knee, abortion, cardiac cath, tummy tuck, vasectomy, sex change, implants, etc.... risks with all. educaton done with all, or the facility won't last long.
teedubbya Offline
#237 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 11:38 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
As a matter of fact prior to getting implants (a surgery I find totally uneccessary other than in masectomy cases) I think the government should force the women to get additinal mammograms while watching a video of wheel self pleasuring.
tailgater Offline
#238 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 11:46 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
TW,
People only regret other elective surgeries when they fail.
Some are even reversible.

Girls regret abortions at a much higher rate then they do knee surgery.
And it's not because it's controversial or in the spotlight, as you suggest.

We all know why there are regrets.
But yet we haven't the cajones to implement a simple means to avert at least some of these.
And we then compare it to other, unrelated loss of freedoms because it somehow appears to make your point.

I don't call abortions murder.
But that doesn't mean I underestimate the life that is being taken away preemptively.

Remember: the girl does nothing, and a baby is born.

tailgater Offline
#239 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 11:46 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
teedubbya wrote:
As a matter of fact prior to getting implants (a surgery I find totally uneccessary other than in masectomy cases) I think the government should force the women to get additinal mammograms while watching a video of wheel self pleasuring.


I self pleasured just reading that...
teedubbya Offline
#240 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 11:51 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
controversial meant risk of lawsuit to the provider thus following all protocol and making sure they document educaiton efforts and consent etc. not womans regret.

breast implants are often folloowed by deep regret. of course they can sometimes be reversed (although the damage can not entirely).

you are asking for something above and beyond..... not something to bring it up to equal with other procedures. you are also jusdging this medical procedure on a different level than other procedures. It's not clinical logic but political/moral/emotional. That's cool by me and maybe you should. But to pretend it's anything other than that is silly.

Either declare it not a medical procedure or let the medical community handle it like they do all others (influenced by risk management of course)
victor809 Offline
#241 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 12:42 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
One point, since TW is essentially spot on.
An abortion is reversible. Get pregnant again.

To assume that this particular combination of sperm and egg is somehow different/more important than the combination of sperm and egg you'd cook up by getting pregnant again is mythology. Deciding that something important happens the instant a sperm hits an egg is essentially drawing an arbitrary line. No resources have been put into the fetus, no education, no personality development. There is nothing keeping you from just making another one if you're dissatisfied with the abortion result.
DrafterX Offline
#242 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 12:44 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
Think not sure about that one Victor... if that were true all my brothers would look just like me... Think
victor809 Offline
#243 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 12:48 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:

When we started this conversation I was told that I was pushing my own beliefs and infringing on freedoms.
Now I'm being told that the education has always been there.

So which is it?



The bills are artificially "requiring" medically and educationally unnecessary activities. The transvaginal ultrasound (or regular ultrasound at later stages) exists at most clinics and is used prior to the procedure, but there is no medical "requirement" to force a woman to look at it. You're talking about requiring that. She can look at it if she wants to. If she doesn't want that, why force it. To call it education is inaccurate and deceptive. Call it a last ditch attempt to make her feel guilty about getting the procedure done, and then we can have an honest debate.

As for "hearing a heartbeat"... that's completely unnecessary and not performed now. It would require additional equipment, would add nothing (especially since there isn't a heartbeat in most of the procedures, due to the early stage). Again, you're not educating. Education is "it is at a stage of development where there is a heartbeat". You're doing something different, and in doing it you're adding cost and complication and you're insulting the woman who is getting the procedure by assuming she hasn't considered these aspects.
victor809 Offline
#244 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 12:51 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
Think not sure about that one Victor... if that were true all my brothers would look just like me... Think


Within the scope of knowledge, there is no difference. Unless you can determine at 5 weeks that one fetus is superior, smarter, better looking, more athletic, has a great sense of humor, then for all practical purposes they are identical.
DrafterX Offline
#245 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 12:53 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
victor809 wrote:
Within the scope of knowledge, there is no difference. Unless you can determine at 5 weeks that one fetus is superior, smarter, better looking, more athletic, has a great sense of humor, then for all practical purposes they are identical.


most of that is taught after birth.... but what about finger prints and stuff... aborting a kid today doesn't mean it will be replicated next month.... I dunno.. maybe I read your post wrong.. Think
victor809 Offline
#246 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 1:06 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
most of that is taught after birth.... but what about finger prints and stuff... aborting a kid today doesn't mean it will be replicated next month.... I dunno.. maybe I read your post wrong.. Think


You read the post wrong.
I'm not saying they aren't different.

But since you have no way of identifying or quantifying the difference, it is the same thing.

Let's say I offer you a brown paper bag, with an unknown cigar in it. It could be an OpusX, or a Swisher Sweet, or anything else in between. But you HAVE to smoke that cigar immediately, or I get to kick you in the nuts.

You may not choose to smoke the cigar right now, since you don't know if it will be any good, you may not want a cigar at this moment... and you really don't want to be kicked in the nuts if you don't smoke it.

If I gave you the same opportunity a day later, with a different cigar in an identical paper bag, you haven't lost anything. Still an unknown cigar. As far as you're concerned, the opportunity is no different. The cigar is (to you) the same.
tailgater Offline
#247 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 1:20 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Pretty sure that tomorrows sperm/egg combo will be better looking than TW and Victor.
Even if they get aborted.
Or heck, even if swallowed.

But these two shouldn't be the litmus test.
teedubbya Offline
#248 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 1:26 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
tailgater wrote:
Pretty sure that tomorrows sperm/egg combo will be better looking than TW and Victor.
Even if they get aborted.
Or heck, even if swallowed.

But these two shouldn't be the litmus test.




Now that's just hurtful. I'm much prettier than Victor
DrafterX Offline
#249 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 1:27 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
victor809 wrote:
You read the post wrong.
I'm not saying they aren't different.



Think
victor809 Offline
#250 Posted: Fri, Jul 26 2013, 2:31 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
teedubbya wrote:
Now that's just hurtful. I'm much prettier than Victor


Psh... obviously you haven't looked at DMV's avatar recently.
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