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HockeyDad Offline
#101 Posted: Wed, Dec 18 2013, 12:04 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
TMCTLT wrote:
According to you.


It has nothing to do with my argument.

We want a pound of flesh when its someone else's kid but only an ounce of flesh when its our own kid. There are those ecceptions that are armed with bazookas.
DrafterX Offline
#102 Posted: Wed, Dec 18 2013, 12:06 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
His parents prolly shoulda handcuffed him to da porch with a dead chicken around his neck when he was younger.... Mellow





http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/10/indictment-details-alleged-abuse-nc-boy-11-found-handcuffed-to-porch-with-dead/?intcmp=obinsite

Think
HockeyDad Offline
#103 Posted: Wed, Dec 18 2013, 12:14 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
Being affluent, maybe a dead pheasant.
bloody spaniard Offline
#104 Posted: Wed, Dec 18 2013, 12:16 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
HockeyDad wrote:
It has nothing to do with my argument.
We. Want a pound of flesh when its someone else's kid but only an ounce of flesh when its our own kid. There are those ecceptions that are armed with bazookas.

That's very true. And the rich have more bazookas at their disposal. So? No one really gets away with it forever.
I don't understand the emotional quibbling. Sounds like me with the vaccine debate. horse

8, you missed my point. The perp should stand before the man & make restitution regardless. Then one should forgive and move on.
Just my 2 centavos.
DrafterX Offline
#105 Posted: Wed, Dec 18 2013, 12:19 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
he should be forced to wear a dead chicken around his neck too.... [melow]
bloody spaniard Offline
#106 Posted: Wed, Dec 18 2013, 12:22 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
DrafterX wrote:
he should be forced to wear a dead chicken around his neck too.... [melow]

Before or after you pick at the carcass?Think It would make the same point but you'd be full.
TMCTLT Offline
#107 Posted: Wed, Dec 18 2013, 12:24 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
HockeyDad wrote:
It has nothing to do with my argument.

We want a pound of flesh when its someone else's kid but only an ounce of flesh when its our own kid. There are those ecceptions that are armed with bazookas.



HockeyDad wrote:
Heartbroken.....don't start going softee on me now. We've already established that if your kid shoplifted you would bury him in an ant hill and cover his head with honey.




Neither did your outragous assertion here but that didn't stop you from going there to get your misguided point across. Nice!!!!
TMCTLT Offline
#108 Posted: Wed, Dec 18 2013, 12:25 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
HockeyDad wrote:
It has nothing to do with my argument.

We want a pound of flesh when its someone else's kid but only an ounce of flesh when its our own kid. There are those ecceptions that are armed with bazookas.



HockeyDad wrote:
Heartbroken.....don't start going softee on me now. We've already established that if your kid shoplifted you would bury him in an ant hill and cover his head with honey.




Neither did your outrageous assertion here but that didn't stop you from going there to get your misguided point across. Nice!!!! I never said I'd go out of my way to help " prosecute my own " nor would I get in the way of the Law (you know the ones that are suppose to be ALL inclusive)
HockeyDad Offline
#109 Posted: Wed, Dec 18 2013, 12:27 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
I knew somebody who had a dead chicken around their neck and got shot by a bazooka. The chicken blocked the shot.
HockeyDad Offline
#110 Posted: Wed, Dec 18 2013, 12:33 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
TMCTLT wrote:
Neither did your outrageous assertion here but that didn't stop you from going there to get your misguided point across. Nice!!!! I never said I'd go out of my way to help " prosecute my own " nor would I get in the way of the Law (you know the ones that are suppose to be ALL inclusive)



You wouldn't help them prosecute your own?

Softee enabler!
HockeyDad Offline
#111 Posted: Wed, Dec 18 2013, 4:25 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
I wonder how many people on this thread supply/supplied their under 18 children with a vehicle and car insurance. This situation is a reminder of the liability.
Gene363 Offline
#112 Posted: Wed, Dec 18 2013, 4:51 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,870
HockeyDad wrote:
I wonder how many people on this thread supply/supplied their under 18 children with a vehicle and car insurance. This situation is a reminder of the liability.


Why only under 18? Trust me, even way into adulthood, in the scenario you describe, the parent/supplier of the vehicle can be sued.
TMCTLT Offline
#113 Posted: Wed, Dec 18 2013, 5:05 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
HockeyDad wrote:
I wonder how many people on this thread supply/supplied their under 18 children with a vehicle and car insurance. This situation is a reminder of the liability.




And yet look at ALL the young people who make it from teenage drivers to adults without EVER killing anyone...hmm

Softee...enabler

I'm guessing that your folks made you wait till you were 30 like something then before you could drive their car?
There are reminders every night on the evening news in somewhere USA
lluvia Offline
#114 Posted: Wed, Dec 18 2013, 5:32 PM EST
Joined: 09-14-2008
Posts: 39,062
Hater;p
HockeyDad Offline
#115 Posted: Wed, Dec 18 2013, 7:00 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
TMCTLT wrote:
And yet look at ALL the young people who make it from teenage drivers to adults without EVER killing anyone...hmm

Softee...enabler

I'm guessing that your folks made you wait till you were 30 like something then before you could drive their car?
There are reminders every night on the evening news in somewhere USA



What....You don't think I was driving the Benz at age 15?!
8trackdisco Offline
#116 Posted: Wed, Dec 18 2013, 7:41 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,103
HockeyDad wrote:
You probably wouldn't even help with bail money and would sit in court with the victim's family. Probably throw rotten tomatoes at him as they drag him away.

It is fine to teach values but sometimes values fail even just for a moment. Then what? What is plan "B"? Discard and make another little farmhand?

I wonder how many people on this forum ever got a DUI? Got in a DUI wreck? Drove drunk and didn't get caught? Drank when they were 16? I wonder how many will do it again between now and New Years Day? I guess somebody should have taught them values.


You seem to think you know a lot about how I do and would raise my kid. Feel free to dial that back.

How have you raised Hockeyson? Raised with values? Does he know daddy can always write a check and make all the badness go away?

Maybe I was raised luckier. It was pretty cut and dried for me. I end up in jail, they aren't going to move heaven and earth to get me out. I knew I'd sit. So I dialed it back (a little).

Maybe it is a Tampa thing, but even Hulk Hogan's reckless son did some time after he turned his friend into vegetable lasagna. Is it really as simple as this Texas kids parents had more money than Hogan? Hogan didn't love his son enough to get him out? The law just works for those who have the best lawyers?

How is society better having this 15 year old, valueless child of likely disinterested parents; mom going to the club playing bridge while the globetrotting dad doesn't have the time to talk to him. Maybe it breaks the family up. Mom and Dad divorce, the kid got sad and got drunk, high and killed four.

Let him out. Absolutely. I'm sure the lesson is learned.
8trackdisco Offline
#117 Posted: Wed, Dec 18 2013, 7:44 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,103
HockeyDad wrote:


The only way to re-establish hope is to send a 16 year old kid to prison for 20 years. Then all is right in the world again.


Being that he is afflicted with Affluenza, he's likely to relapse.

This kid kills your son. What would you want the punishment to be?
8trackdisco Offline
#118 Posted: Wed, Dec 18 2013, 7:50 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,103
HockeyDad wrote:
It has nothing to do with my argument.

We want a pound of flesh when its someone else's kid but only an ounce of flesh when its our own kid. There are those ecceptions that are armed with bazookas.


Just because you live and promote a double standard in your life, doesn't mean the rest of us do.
HockeyDad Offline
#119 Posted: Thu, Dec 19 2013, 8:16 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
8trackdisco wrote:
Being that he is afflicted with Affluenza, he's likely to relapse.

This kid kills your son. What would you want the punishment to be?



We want a pound of flesh when its someone else's kid but only an ounce of flesh when its our own kid.

If he killed my son, I would want him shot in the face with a bazooka, keel hauled, drawn and quartered, and then the remaining parts fired from a circus cannon through a Boeing 777 engine running at half speed.

(It is kinda a modern/medieval hybrid solution)
HockeyDad Offline
#120 Posted: Thu, Dec 19 2013, 8:39 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
8trackdisco wrote:
You seem to think you know a lot about how I do and would raise my kid. Feel free to dial that back.

How have you raised Hockeyson? Raised with values? Does he know daddy can always write a check and make all the badness go away?

Maybe I was raised luckier. It was pretty cut and dried for me. I end up in jail, they aren't going to move heaven and earth to get me out. I knew I'd sit. So I dialed it back (a little).




I didn't say anything about knowing how you raise your kid, I just said "It is fine to teach values but sometimes values fail even just for a moment. Then what? What is plan B?"

Maybe he will know that if he ends up in jail, he's gonna rot there and that will keep him out. You're still legally liable for him. Hopefully you'll never have to put that leave him in jail value to the test. It is however, a natural biological parental instinct for mama and papa bear to try to protect baby bear. Instinct versus value might kick in.

By the way, HockeySon was raised with values. Heck, he drove a Ford American ValueMobile with GoodRich Value Tires and Good Hands insurance. Daddy never had to write a check to make badness go away.

The difference between us is I'm willing to admit I might have wrote that check if needed and this outrages you because you would never write that check and would load the bazooka instead. When you reach those risky years of parenthood, perhaps you will stick to your guns and not write the check. Perhaps you will falter.
TMCTLT Offline
#121 Posted: Thu, Dec 19 2013, 9:03 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
HockeyDad wrote:
I didn't say anything about knowing how you raise your kid, I just said "It is fine to teach values but sometimes values fail even just for a moment. Then what? What is plan B?"

Maybe he will know that if he ends up in jail, he's gonna rot there and that will keep him out. You're still legally liable for him. Hopefully you'll never have to put that leave him in jail value to the test. It is however, a natural biological parental instinct for mama and papa bear to try to protect baby bear. Instinct versus value might kick in.

By the way, HockeySon was raised with values. Heck, he drove a Ford American ValueMobile with GoodRich Value Tires and Good Hands insurance. Daddy never had to write a check to make badness go away.

The difference between us is I'm willing to admit I might have wrote that check if needed and this outrages you because you would never write that check and would load the bazooka instead. When you reach those risky years of parenthood, perhaps you will stick to your guns and not write the check. Perhaps you will falter.




Russ's POINT that YOU keep dancing around.....congratulations on being ONE of the fortunate who can BUY more justice ( legal representation )than the larger percentage here. Justice as in this case or any other is NOT suppose to be for sale.
HockeyDad Offline
#122 Posted: Thu, Dec 19 2013, 9:18 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
TMCTLT wrote:
Russ's POINT that YOU keep dancing around.....congratulations on being ONE of the fortunate who can BUY more justice ( legal representation )than the larger percentage here. Justice as in this case or any other is NOT suppose to be for sale.



I never said I was one of the fortunate who can buy more justice. You just assumed that because I didn't get in line and agree with the discussion of how many kilotons of explosives should be used to kill the kid.

I assume that even if you and 8track had unlimited funds, you would stick to your guns (bazookas) and not use that money to help your kids if they were in a legal jam. I'm assuming that value is cash-independent.


(Hypothetically speaking....if I were one of the fortunate who could buy more justice.....I accept your congratulations.)
Gene363 Offline
#123 Posted: Thu, Dec 19 2013, 10:29 AM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,870

Can't we all just get along? Maybe agree to disagree?

horse horse horse horse horse horse horse
jpotts Offline
#124 Posted: Thu, Dec 19 2013, 10:46 AM EST
Joined: 06-14-2006
Posts: 28,811
HockeyDad wrote:
I didn't say anything about knowing how you raise your kid, I just said "It is fine to teach values but sometimes values fail even just for a moment. Then what? What is plan B?"


Plan B is to make them suffer the consequences of their actions.

You cannot protect or dissuade someone who is hellbent on being a destructive idiot from being a destructive idiot. You will fail. So the only option at that point is "tough love." You let them reap what they sow.

It is unfortunate that sometimes people have to die for someone to learn a lesson. Often times they still never learn. That's why we have execution chambers and life sentences without parole.

Then again, what did anyone think would happen when you marginalized God, religion, and got a red-faced hissy-fit-ish over people spanking their kids? Kids are cunning little animals when they are young, and best equipped to learn the hard truths about life in an environment that their parents are able to control (to a point) with mild corporal punishment. But some people are just too "enlightened" or just too lazy to take a direct route like that. And this is what you end up with: a wannabe killer without a conscience.

I'm not outraged about this at all. I see this as the inevitable consequence of people being the idiots they choose to be.

And if my kid were killed by this little punk, I wouldn't wait for the sentencing. I'd first forgive him of his crimes. Then I'd tack his skin to the exterior of my house.
8trackdisco Offline
#125 Posted: Thu, Dec 19 2013, 12:19 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,103
HockeyDad wrote:
Daddy never had to write a check to make badness go away.

The difference between us is I'm willing to admit I might have wrote that check if needed and this outrages you because you would never write that check and would load the bazooka instead. When you reach those risky years of parenthood, perhaps you will stick to your guns and not write the check. Perhaps you will falter.


Few things are cut and dried. I get that. And if that is the only point you are trying to make, I get that as well.

This situation strikes me as cut and dried. This situation isn't getting a D in English, an underage drinking, or a 65 in a 55 mph speed limit situation. This person was underage, drunk, high, traveling twice the posted limit, killed four and injured two. The only price tag involved is the $420,000 resort-hab and a warning to not violate probation.

This judge's motivation is what has me most perplexed. How was the end result even an option?

I would have sat in jail. There is no reason on this planet that I shouldn't be dead, or at the very least a lifer with MACS mocking me on the other side of the bars. But it was luck (or for the enjoyment of the Godless folks here) intervention that is divine. (New thread)

At the end of the day, there is no price paid for this kids action. And bailing him out sends the wrong message. Bail for killing four? How is that even an option? Corruptable cash.

I'm working hard to be a better person, and I have been on the right track for some time now. Situations like this, and the offhanded approval of this type of thing pulls me back toward the darkness I was once in.

There is at least one poster her that has lost a loved one to a drunk driver. I haven't seen them responding. I wish they would. I don't know what the driver got for a sentence or even if he lived throw the crash. I'd like to see their thoughts.
bloody spaniard Offline
#126 Posted: Thu, Dec 19 2013, 12:21 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
I think that our society is disintegrating before our eyes.

There was a time years ago when I was governed by anger and trinkets. Yes, I would have hunted down the perpetrators, tortured (adrenalin sweetens the meat),skinned, eaten them blah blah blah. As I (begrudgingly) got older, I learned to put the childish toys away and become a man. IMHO our time here is limited and we should prepare to be judged as we have judged others.

Haven't read most of this thread (why raise bp unneccessarily?) but IMO, HD spoke the truth. We would judge our own differently that we would others. Those that think they would punish their kids as they would others are either deceiving themselves or are unconpromised principled men of uncommon valor chiseled from molten steel with hair of gold and smelling of posies and Mennen Skin Bracer like granpa. The rest of us just shrug our shoulders and continue our Sisyphian tasks until we are beckoned by the Man upstairs.
DrafterX Offline
#127 Posted: Thu, Dec 19 2013, 12:26 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
But the Judge made this decision. not the parents... Mellow
Gene363 Offline
#128 Posted: Thu, Dec 19 2013, 12:35 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,870
bloody spaniard wrote:
I think that our society is disintegrating before our eyes.

There was a time years ago when I was governed by anger and trinkets. Yes, I would have hunted down the perpetrators, tortured (adrenalin sweetens the meat),skinned, eaten them blah blah blah. As I (begrudgingly) got older, I learned to put the childish toys away and become a man. IMHO our time here is limited and we should prepare to be judged as we have judged others.

Haven't read most of this thread (why raise bp unneccessarily?) but IMO, HD spoke the truth. We would judge our own differently that we would others. Those that think they would punish their kids as they would others are either deceiving themselves or are unconpromised principled men of uncommon valor chiseled from molten steel with hair of gold and smelling of posies and Mennen Skin Bracer like granpa. The rest of us just shrug our shoulders and continue our Sisyphian tasks until we are beckoned by the Man upstairs.


HD'd problem is interrupting a completely organized and self assured lynch mob with some truth, it happens... often.
8trackdisco Offline
#129 Posted: Thu, Dec 19 2013, 12:36 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,103
bloody spaniard wrote:


or are unconpromised principled men ......uncommon.


So give up doing the right thing because it doesn't matter anymore anyway?

Guess I am more alone in the world than I thought. I'll keep walking my path.

SIGH

(Unregistered trademark, Bloody Spaniard effective 2005)

The easy thing isn't right, right thing isn't always easy. I just can't get behind shoving forward the rocketsled to Wrong.
bloody spaniard Offline
#130 Posted: Thu, Dec 19 2013, 12:57 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
LOL@Gene- never knew HD was such a lightning rod. Gotta read his stuff more often.

8, you're tormenting yourself unnecessarily IMHO. Besides, your high standards would probably fall waaaay short to a Spartan's of old, Leonidas Jr.

Oh and I don't sigh anymore. Haven't for years. But I DO get watery eyes sometimes thinking what awaits our kids.
HockeyDad Offline
#131 Posted: Thu, Dec 19 2013, 2:31 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
8trackdisco wrote:

There is at least one poster her that has lost a loved one to a drunk driver. I haven't seen them responding. I wish they would. I don't know what the driver got for a sentence or even if he lived throw the crash. I'd like to see their thoughts.



Maybe I can help...

Around seven years my cousin was killed by a drunk driver. Driver got something like 4 years. She's out now. No wealth to speak of for a lawsuit. Just a drunk peasant. My aunt raised his daughter after his death.

Some in the family are still shopping for a bazooka.

Sometimes you need to turn swords into plowshares.
jpotts Offline
#132 Posted: Thu, Dec 19 2013, 2:34 PM EST
Joined: 06-14-2006
Posts: 28,811
Seeing that Le HockeyDad is so willing to whip out his checkbook to make problems go away...





...give me $500.00, or I'll annoy you for the next 10 years.
bloody spaniard Offline
#133 Posted: Thu, Dec 19 2013, 4:33 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Think Why so cheap?
Sounds like the deal of a lifetime, HD.Applause
DrafterX Offline
#134 Posted: Thu, Dec 19 2013, 4:34 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
but he didn't say he wouldn't taunt him.... Mellow
HockeyDad Offline
#135 Posted: Fri, Dec 20 2013, 11:14 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
Dang. I think I accidentally nuked this thread.
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