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55 Million Abortions since Roe V Wade....
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wheelrite Offline
#51 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 8:37 PM EST
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
victor809 wrote:
20 weeks.
Do you know how many abortions are performed at 20 weeks? (Just so you know... because I'm not sure you understand, 20 weeks is 5 months. That's 2nd trimester.)

Only 4.6% of all abortions are performed from 16weeks onward. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2009/06/02/GR2009060200592.html)

You're using an absolute outlier as an argument. That's kind of a "moron" thing, don't you think?


Read this Moron,,



"Supreme Court Prevents Arizona From Enforcing Its 20-Week Abortion Ban


abortion safe and legal
CREDIT: Feminist Campus

On Monday, the Supreme Court declined to review a lower court’s decision to block a 20-week abortion ban from taking effect in Arizona. That decision ensures that the law will remain permanently blocked, and women in the state will continue being able to access abortion care until the point of viability as defined under Roe v. Wade, around 24 weeks of pregnancy.

“This ensures that no Arizona women’s lives or health are harmed by this callous and unconstitutional law,” Nancy Northrup, the president of the Center for Reproductive Rights, said in a statement. Northrup’s organization partnered with the ACLU to file suit against Arizona’s abortion ban in 2012.


you need to be better informed Vic,,,,

Think
victor809 Offline
#52 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 8:38 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
rfenst wrote:
Why does every abortion argument here presume the women are poor and living on government?


It's more fun that way, and the anti-abortion people are generally too backward to actually research and decide whether it is false.

For the record, my arguments aren't assuming "poverty". But they are assuming that the parent wants the abortion for a reason (ie, DOESN'T want the child). That's going to have a significant hit on the kid's future opportunities (ie, the parent isn't going to go out of their way to read to it, make sure it does it's homework, etc etc etc).
DrafterX Offline
#53 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 8:39 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,566
sounds like a different argument to me.... Mellow



just to be clear Wheel was outraged at 55 million but now the 4.6% seems to be his argument...
victor809 Offline
#54 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 8:39 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
wheelrite wrote:
Read this Moron,,



"Supreme Court Prevents Arizona From Enforcing Its 20-Week Abortion Ban


abortion safe and legal
CREDIT: Feminist Campus

On Monday, the Supreme Court declined to review a lower court’s decision to block a 20-week abortion ban from taking effect in Arizona. That decision ensures that the law will remain permanently blocked, and women in the state will continue being able to access abortion care until the point of viability as defined under Roe v. Wade, around 24 weeks of pregnancy.

“This ensures that no Arizona women’s lives or health are harmed by this callous and unconstitutional law,” Nancy Northrup, the president of the Center for Reproductive Rights, said in a statement. Northrup’s organization partnered with the ACLU to file suit against Arizona’s abortion ban in 2012.


you need to be better informed Vic,,,,

Think


This doesn't have anything to do with 55 million abortions wheel. Stay on track. If this was your original complaint, why is it buried in post 51?
victor809 Offline
#55 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 8:39 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
sounds like a different argument to me.... Mellow


thank you drafter.
Gene363 Offline
#56 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 8:44 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,850
rfenst wrote:
Why does every abortion argument here presume the women are poor and living on government?


Just the discussions where people advocate using taxpayer funds to pay for abortions.
wheelrite Offline
#57 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 8:50 PM EST
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
DrafterX wrote:
sounds like a different argument to me.... Mellow



just to be clear Wheel was outraged at 55 million but now the 4.6% seems to be his argument...


That is not my argument,,,,

All Abortion is wrong,,,,

sorry,,,

wheel,,


and weed is still a Gateway drug
and The Death Penalty is wrong too,,,,


Beer


Gene363 Offline
#58 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 8:50 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,850
JadeRose wrote:
No argument there. Too often abortion is used as a method of birth control


Yup, like using a sledge hammer to crack walnuts.
Gene363 Offline
#59 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 9:00 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,850

Wheel is pointing out the brutal realities of abortion. They are facts, regardless of your position on abortion.



The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

Winston Churchill


IOW, the stinking turd at the confluence of reality and consequences.
sd72 Offline
#60 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 9:02 PM EST
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
I don't know what you just said, but sounds good!!
wheelrite Offline
#61 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 9:12 PM EST
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
Vic surprises me, He isn't outraged that most,by percentage, babies killed by abortions are minorities,,,

Is Victor a Eugenic racist ?

Women who fall in the black ethnicity bracket are three times more likely to terminate a pregnancy over those who fall in the white ethnicity bracket according to abortion statistics by race. Females that belong to the black ethnicity group are approximately 12% of the population. The white ethnicity group makes up around 63%. Among the total percentages of females who have abortions in the U.S. they make up around 35%. Daily totals of terminations are around 3300 babies and out of these 1227 of them belong to the black ethnicity group whereas 1127 of them are of the white ethnicity group. Therefore, the black ethnicity group has a higher rate of abortion than whites do. At the rate black babies are aborted, the ethnicity group will no longer remain the largest minority group in the U.S. Basically, more black babies are dying daily to abortion than white.


Thanks Margaret Sanger , your plan is working,,,



wheel,
sd72 Offline
#62 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 9:14 PM EST
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
Large minority sounds kinda 'off'. You know what I mean?
wheelrite Offline
#63 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 9:20 PM EST
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
sd72 wrote:
Large minority sounds kinda 'off'. You know what I mean?


what do you mean ?

That Planned Parenthood was established to eliminate Blacks from our Society?

If so you are correct,,


wheel,
sd72 Offline
#64 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 9:23 PM EST
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
Large minority.
Big midget.
Government intelligence.
Good fats.

That kinda off. Don't know too many conspiracy thingys. Did you hear this from Mel Gibson.??
Brewha Offline
#65 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 9:27 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
wheelrite wrote:
bottom line,,,,

Sucking a baby from the womb is murder,,,,

why do you think a person can be prosecuted for the killing of a Pregnant woman and/or her unborn baby ?

splain please...


wheel,

Timing. All timing.
In the first trimester of gestation the fetus is not viable. In the month before delivery it is.
Granted we struggle with the timing. Some even term condoms "murder in the eyes of god".
wheelrite Offline
#66 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 9:29 PM EST
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
sd72 wrote:
Large minority.
Big midget.
Government intelligence.
Good fats.

That kinda off. Don't know too many conspiracy thingys. Did you hear this from Mel Gibson.??


what conspiracy do you speak of ?

Margaret Sanger , The Founder of Planned Parenthood, quote

Woman, Morality, and Birth Control. New York: New York Publishing Company, 1922. Page 12.


We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.




or in 2014 hire a Black President to do it ?

hmmm?


wheel,
sd72 Offline
#67 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 9:31 PM EST
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
Sounds like they wanted to make them feel equal to the whites.
wheelrite Offline
#68 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 9:33 PM EST
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
sd72 wrote:
Sounds like they wanted to make them feel equal to the whites.


you are a dork,,,
sd72 Offline
#69 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 9:34 PM EST
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
I'm offended.
wheelrite Offline
#70 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 9:41 PM EST
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
sd72 wrote:
I'm offended.


don't be,,,,
frankj1 Offline
#71 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 10:56 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,231
Gene363 wrote:
[color=darkblue]Yes, unfortunately a lot of folks think making something illegal or not talking about the subject will make it go away. Like putting men and women on Navy ships and getting all surprised when sailors turn up pregnant.

Perhaps if the curriculum stayed with how babies are made they wouldn't have been badgered into discussing all sexual activities, e'g', gay sex. Even calling it Human Reproduction vs Sex Education would help sell the program; even lesbians can get pregnant.[/color]

something struck me as incompatible in the above paragraphs. I finally figured out what didn't jibe in my mind, and it may be just me who missed it.

We agree it won't go away by making it illegal or ignoring it, but you then say sex ed classes should not have been recognizing sexual activity that (I hate to assume) you believe should go away. Ignore the other stuff and it will go away??

I'm not attacking you, but have I hit on an inconsistency in your position when it comes to an honest school curriculum that addresses the reality that some of those other forms of sexuality exist, whether we approve of them or not? Should they have ignored their existence...in hopes they would go away? Like ignoring the discussion of birth control for heterosexuals?

Just like we agree that sex ed classes speaking frankly about birth control is not the same as teaching teens to have sex, do we differ in that simply discussing alternative sexual life styles (that we may not approve of either) in class is not tantamount to encouraging same sex relations?

I'm missed for your usual balance.
earthson Offline
#72 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 11:30 PM EST
Joined: 01-30-2010
Posts: 217
Abortion = bad. War = good. Welcome to America, Inc.

"You ever notice that pro-lifers are people you'd never wanna fulck anyway?" - George Carlin. Too true. Ain't met an attractive pro-lifer yet.
ZRX1200 Offline
#73 Posted: Thu, Jan 23 2014, 11:53 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,630
Yeah we all know liberal women are always sexy.

Sanger was a eugenists.


Abortion is wrong.
Gene363 Offline
#74 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 12:15 AM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,850
frankj1 wrote:
something struck me as incompatible in the above paragraphs. I finally figured out what didn't jibe in my mind, and it may be just me who missed it.

We agree it won't go away by making it illegal or ignoring it, but you then say sex ed classes should not have been recognizing sexual activity that (I hate to assume) you believe should go away. Ignore the other stuff and it will go away??

I'm not attacking you, but have I hit on an inconsistency in your position when it comes to an honest school curriculum that addresses the reality that some of those other forms of sexuality exist, whether we approve of them or not? Should they have ignored their existence...in hopes they would go away? Like ignoring the discussion of birth control for heterosexuals?

Just like we agree that sex ed classes speaking frankly about birth control is not the same as teaching teens to have sex, do we differ in that simply discussing alternative sexual life styles (that we may not approve of either) in class is not tantamount to encouraging same sex relations?

I'm missed for your usual balance.


I see what you are saying.

I want:

Kids to know what causes a woman to get pregnant

What birth control and how it works

Why they have no business bringing kids into the world until they are older, have a job etc.

Problems:

Some people think by not talking about it and not giving them birth control they won't have sex.

When you try to teach that, people call it sex education, it should be reproduction and birth control.

Once you call it Sex Education, the arguing starts.

Some people do not want their children exposed to alternative sex information. Meanwhile, when the gay folks and some others hear about "sex education" they immediately insist the curriculum include gays and whatever else they can think of in the category of sex and with the, "All this is perfectly normal." label.

Meanwhile, reproduction and birth control information never gets taught because they various faction can never agree.

People of the opposite sex can create a baby regardless of their sexuality or preferences. If you teach reproductive processes and birth control, those that need to know what causes a baby and what prevents one will get the knowledge they need.
MACS Offline
#75 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 7:44 AM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,840
HockeyDad wrote:
Republicans hate abortions almost as much as they hate welfare babies.


Ironic, isn't it?
HockeyDad Offline
#76 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 8:36 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,164
victor809 wrote:

People don't seem to realize that poor people cost them money, even if you don't give them ANY government assistance. Give them nothing, and you have to pay more for police to ensure they don't try taking anything. And you have to pay for a justice and penal system after they try taking something. The entire time, you have to spend your days dodging the trash and sh#t the poor leave on the sidewalk after sleeping there.



Damn peasants.
frankj1 Offline
#77 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 8:57 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,231
Gene363 wrote:
I see what you are saying.

I want:

Kids to know what causes a woman to get pregnant

What birth control and how it works

Why they have no business bringing kids into the world until they are older, have a job etc.

Problems:

Some people think by not talking about it and not giving them birth control they won't have sex.

When you try to teach that, people call it sex education, it should be reproduction and birth control.

Once you call it Sex Education, the arguing starts.

Some people do not want their children exposed to alternative sex information. Meanwhile, when the gay folks and some others hear about "sex education" they immediately insist the curriculum include gays and whatever else they can think of in the category of sex and with the, "All this is perfectly normal." label.

Meanwhile, reproduction and birth control information never gets taught because they various faction can never agree.

People of the opposite sex can create a baby regardless of their sexuality or preferences. If you teach reproductive processes and birth control, those that need to know what causes a baby and what prevents one will get the knowledge they need.

Human Reproduction may in fact be a more appropriate subject for school. Causes and prevention!

Cool.
victor809 Offline
#78 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 12:08 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Gene363 wrote:
I see what you are saying.

I want:

Kids to know what causes a woman to get pregnant

What birth control and how it works

Why they have no business bringing kids into the world until they are older, have a job etc.

Problems:

Some people think by not talking about it and not giving them birth control they won't have sex.

When you try to teach that, people call it sex education, it should be reproduction and birth control.

Once you call it Sex Education, the arguing starts.

Some people do not want their children exposed to alternative sex information. Meanwhile, when the gay folks and some others hear about "sex education" they immediately insist the curriculum include gays and whatever else they can think of in the category of sex and with the, "All this is perfectly normal." label.

Meanwhile, reproduction and birth control information never gets taught because they various faction can never agree.

People of the opposite sex can create a baby regardless of their sexuality or preferences. If you teach reproductive processes and birth control, those that need to know what causes a baby and what prevents one will get the knowledge they need.


Gotta disagree slightly here (Not a lot). Sex Ed (or whatever you want to call it) needs to educate on both reproduction AND disease avoidance. Getting pregnant isn't little susies only worry. If she leaves high school with a nasty case of herpes, that's gonna stick with her the rest of her life. The trick is, disease avoidance IS a straight and gay issue. This is where discussion of "alternative" sex information ends up popping in.
victor809 Offline
#79 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 12:12 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
wheelrite wrote:
Vic surprises me, He isn't outraged that most,by percentage, babies killed by abortions are minorities,,,

Is Victor a Eugenic racist ?


wheel,


Why would I care what the percentage is? No one getting an abortion is being forced to at gun-point. If there are an unusual number of blacks getting abortions, then perhaps someone should look into what's causing these women to get pregnant when they don't want to have a kid... ie, is there an inordinate amount of rape? is there a lack of birth control? is there an unwillingness to use birth control? is there a socio economic factor keeping the women from access to the pill?

Fix the root of the problem, and your abortions will decrease.
DrafterX Offline
#80 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 12:14 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,566
prolly cheap imported rubbers.... they just don't make'em like they used to... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#81 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 12:21 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Gene363 wrote:

Wheel is pointing out the brutal realities of abortion. They are facts, regardless of your position on abortion.



IOW, the stinking turd at the confluence of reality and consequences.


What you don't realize is that these aren't brutal realities. They're facts, but they aren't shocking or brutal.

Do you want to start tallying up how many individual sperm are wasted annually, left to rot in condoms, dirty socks, swallowed, spit out, stuck in buttholes... hell, while we're at it, add in the ones that don't manage to get to an egg! That's gonna be a big number too... and we can call them all tragedies...

I suppose on the other hand we can tally up every egg that's dropped without being fertilized... since we've got so many sperm out there, we really should consider every unfertilized egg as a potential life, stopped cold and sopped up in a cotton wad.

Or we can start talking about the FERTILIZED EGGS which are created, but never implanted when couples (good christian couples who hate abortion) decide to go and get in vitro fertilization. Do you think the doctors only fertilize one egg for implantation? No, they fertilize a bunch, implant a few of those (the rest either stay in liquid nitrogen indefinitely (what kind of hell is that for a living creature?) or are tossed. Then, the multiple which are implanted, some are killed off in the womb if too many remain viable (ie, if 4 start growing, they'd abort 3).

These are facts. These are realities. BUT THEY ARE NOT BRUTAL.

Wheel (and others) like to spout big numbers (55 million1!!!) and then associate them with pictures which are not in any way relevant to those numbers... I assume he's just been confused by propaganda out there, but it's possible he knows what he's doing.
JadeRose Offline
#82 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 1:13 PM EST
Joined: 05-15-2008
Posts: 19,525
There are Jews in the world there are Buddhists
There are Hindus and Mormons, and then
There are those that follow Mohammed, but
I've never been one of them

I'm a Roman Catholic
And have been since before I was born
And the one thing they say about Catholics is
They'll take you as soon as you're warm

You don't have to be a six-footer
You don't have to have a great brain
You don't have to have any clothes on you're
A Catholic the moment Dad came

Because every sperm is sacred
Every sperm is great
If a sperm is wasted
God gets quite irate

Every sperm is sacred
Every sperm is great
If a sperm is wasted
God gets quite irate

Let the heathen spill theirs
On the dusty ground
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found

Every sperm is wanted
Every sperm is good
Every sperm is needed
In your neighborhood

Hindu, Taoist, Mormon
Spill theirs just anywhere
But God loves those who treat their
**** with more care

Every sperm is sacred
Every sperm is great
If a sperm is wasted
God get quite irate

Every sperm is sacred
Every sperm is good
Every sperm is needed
In your neighborhood

Every sperm is useful
Every sperm is fine
God needs everybody's
Mine and mine and mine

Let the pagan spill theirs
Over mountain, hill, and plain
God shall strike them down for
Each sperm that's spilt in vain

Every sperm is sacred
Every sperm is good
Every sperm is needed
In your neighborhood

Every sperm is sacred
Every sperm is great
If a sperm is wasted
God gets quite irate
Gene363 Offline
#83 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 1:32 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,850
victor809 wrote:
What you don't realize is that these aren't brutal realities. They're facts, but they aren't shocking or brutal.

Do you want to start tallying up how many individual sperm are wasted annually, left to rot in condoms, dirty socks, swallowed, spit out, stuck in buttholes... hell, while we're at it, add in the ones that don't manage to get to an egg! That's gonna be a big number too... and we can call them all tragedies...

I suppose on the other hand we can tally up every egg that's dropped without being fertilized... since we've got so many sperm out there, we really should consider every unfertilized egg as a potential life, stopped cold and sopped up in a cotton wad.

Or we can start talking about the FERTILIZED EGGS which are created, but never implanted when couples (good christian couples who hate abortion) decide to go and get in vitro fertilization. Do you think the doctors only fertilize one egg for implantation? No, they fertilize a bunch, implant a few of those (the rest either stay in liquid nitrogen indefinitely (what kind of hell is that for a living creature?) or are tossed. Then, the multiple which are implanted, some are killed off in the womb if too many remain viable (ie, if 4 start growing, they'd abort 3).

These are facts. These are realities. BUT THEY ARE NOT BRUTAL.

Wheel (and others) like to spout big numbers (55 million1!!!) and then associate them with pictures which are not in any way relevant to those numbers... I assume he's just been confused by propaganda out there, but it's possible he knows what he's doing.


The reality? Abortion is about killing. That may be clinical to you, but the reality is brutal.

Quote:

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.

Winston Churchill
Buckwheat Offline
#84 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 1:33 PM EST
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
That's what being a Protestant's all about. That's why it's the church for me. That's why it's the church for anyone who respects the individual and the individual's right to decide for him or herself. When Martin Luther nailed his protest up to the church door in fifteen-seventeen, he may not have realised the full significance of what he was doing, but four hundred years later, thanks to him, my dear, I can wear whatever I want on my John Thomas...
[sniff]... and, Protestantism doesn't stop at the simple condom. Oh, no. I can wear French Ticklers if I want.
You what?
French Ticklers. Black Mambos. Crocodile Ribs. Sheaths that are designed not only to protect, but also to enhance the stimulation of sexual congress.
Have you got one?
Have I got one? Uh, well, no, but I can go down the road any time I want and walk into Harry's and hold my head up high and say in a loud, steady voice, 'Harry, I want you to sell me a condom. In fact, today, I think I'll have a French Tickler, for I am a Protestant.'
Well, why don't you?
But they - Well, they cannot, 'cause their church never made the great leap out of the Middle Ages and the domination of alien Episcopal supremacy.
victor809 Offline
#85 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 1:33 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Gene363 wrote:


The reality? Abortion is about killing. That may be clinical to you, but the reality is brutal.



Define killing.
Buckwheat Offline
#86 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 1:48 PM EST
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
victor809 wrote:
Define killing.


This thread is killing my head. fog
Gene363 Offline
#87 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 2:07 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,850
victor809 wrote:
Define killing.


Google is your friend, I'm not into 50(k) questions.

You are convinced abortion is great, you have to live with that decision. You are wasting your time trying to convince me abortion is clinical process. I'm old enough to know what things were like before 'legal' abortions as well as the current situation. Anyone that thinks either solution is problem free is ignorant to the facts associated with both.
victor809 Offline
#88 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 2:20 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Gene363 wrote:
Google is your friend, I'm not into 50(k) questions.

You are convinced abortion is great, you have to live with that decision. You are wasting your time trying to convince me abortion is clinical process. I'm old enough to know what things were like before 'legal' abortions as well as the current situation. Anyone that thinks either solution is problem free is ignorant to the facts associated with both.


Why would you assume I think everything is problem free?

I believe abortion is a tool. It's something women can use to have greater control over the various issues which impact their lives.

People like to use inflammatory words all the time with these sort of topics. Inflammatory words like "killing", "brutal"... they like to show images of fetuses which have less relation to the majority of abortions than a puddle of sperm does. They do this for impact, because they know showing a picture of a cluster of cells won't elicit the same emotional response, despite being more accurate.

People have gladly and willingly thrown accuracy to the wind in favor of half-truths, misdirection and outright lies simply because they believe it improves their argument. the irony is, in this case the group claiming women are getting abortions "uninformed" of what they're doing, seem most interested in spreading misinformation in the hopes of engendering an emotional response.

This is why I demand accurate definitions. If you want to call all abortion "killing" I demand a definition of what "killing" is. If you don't like me demanding accurate definitions, then use more precise and less emotionally laden words.
Buckwheat Offline
#89 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 2:25 PM EST
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
noun
1. An act of causing death, esp. deliberately.
daveincincy Offline
#90 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 3:11 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2006
Posts: 20,033
victor809 wrote:
Why would you assume I think everything is problem free?

I believe abortion is a tool. It's something women can use to have greater control over the various issues which impact their lives.

People like to use inflammatory words all the time with these sort of topics. Inflammatory words like "killing", "brutal"... they like to show images of fetuses which have less relation to the majority of abortions than a puddle of sperm does. They do this for impact, because they know showing a picture of a cluster of cells won't elicit the same emotional response, despite being more accurate.

People have gladly and willingly thrown accuracy to the wind in favor of half-truths, misdirection and outright lies simply because they believe it improves their argument. the irony is, in this case the group claiming women are getting abortions "uninformed" of what they're doing, seem most interested in spreading misinformation in the hopes of engendering an emotional response.

This is why I demand accurate definitions. If you want to call all abortion "killing" I demand a definition of what "killing" is. If you don't like me demanding accurate definitions, then use more precise and less emotionally laden words.


Is that you, Mr. Clinton? You still trying to determine what the meaning of the word "is" is?

Would you prefer the term "mercy killing" instead?

I don't think women are "uninformed" about what they are doing. They know what they are doing. But I do think they are severly "uninformed" (not taking into consideration) how this will impact their life 5, 10, 30 years from now. In the present moment, it's probably a painful process, and even a tough decision (I hope), but I don't know that that moment compares to the mental anguish (personal hell) they go through afterwards.


tailgater Offline
#91 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 3:37 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
It'
You do realize, that if these are irresponsible people, they're likely not going to be responsible parents either.



So perhaps we should allow abortion, but require the parents be neutered?
victor809 Offline
#92 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 4:14 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
daveincincy wrote:
Is that you, Mr. Clinton? You still trying to determine what the meaning of the word "is" is?

Would you prefer the term "mercy killing" instead?

I don't think women are "uninformed" about what they are doing. They know what they are doing. But I do think they are severly "uninformed" (not taking into consideration) how this will impact their life 5, 10, 30 years from now. In the present moment, it's probably a painful process, and even a tough decision (I hope), but I don't know that that moment compares to the mental anguish (personal hell) they go through afterwards.




But if that's something to consider, so is the loss of opportunity. Depending on the situation, carrying the kid to term can mean sacrificing an education, getting stuck either marrying a guy they don't want to marry, or having to try raising a child alone, a significant loss of career opportunities since it costs more to put a kid in daycare than most entry level jobs pay, a loss in relationship opportunities down the road since there's going to be guys who simply don't want to get involved with a woman who has a kid. If she has to wait until the kid is older to date again, she's stuck with the leftovers of the dating pool.

It's a huge unknown on both sides. And since not every situation can be accounted for, there's no need for a bunch of fat white males in a cigar forum (myself included) to be arm-chair quarterbacking their decision. Let them do what they need to do.
victor809 Offline
#93 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 4:15 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
So perhaps we should allow abortion, but require the parents be neutered?



I'm cool with that.

I'm cool with preemptive neutering too.. but some of the people here may not appreciate my criteria.
DrafterX Offline
#94 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 4:21 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,566
victor809 wrote:
But if that's something to consider, so is the loss of opportunity. Depending on the situation, carrying the kid to term can mean sacrificing an education, getting stuck either marrying a guy they don't want to marry, or having to try raising a child alone, a significant loss of career opportunities since it costs more to put a kid in daycare than most entry level jobs pay, a loss in relationship opportunities down the road since there's going to be guys who simply don't want to get involved with a woman who has a kid. If she has to wait until the kid is older to date again, she's stuck with the leftovers of the dating pool.
.


I know a few grandparents raising kids their kids can't take care of don't want to take care of... talking about messing up someone's like.. retirement is suppose to be worry free isn't it..?? d'oh!
victor809 Offline
#95 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 4:24 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
I know a few grandparents raising kids their kids can't take care of don't want to take care of... talking about messing up someone's like.. retirement is suppose to be worry free isn't it..?? d'oh!


My aunt/uncle are doing the same thing. They wasted a lot of their life raising the **** children of their children. (to give you an idea of how bad it was, their kid is the father... the mom was messed up enough he got custody, despite being unemployed/unemployable)
bloody spaniard Offline
#96 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 4:31 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
So it appears you're saying there should be NO age cutoff for aborting kids (especially those damn, life sucking bas tards)?
Useless parents who abhor or neglect parental duties should be euthanized as well!

Damn, Victor. You and your occasional chiquita banana will be the only ones left soon.
Who'll be left to wipe your ass when you're old?Crying
victor809 Offline
#97 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 6:15 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
bloody spaniard wrote:

Who'll be left to wipe your ass when you're old?Crying


I'll die in a pile of my own sh#t, just like god intended....


Not talking
Brewha Offline
#98 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 6:37 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
DrafterX wrote:
I know a few grandparents raising kids their kids can't take care of don't want to take care of... talking about messing up someone's like.. retirement is suppose to be worry free isn't it..?? d'oh!

You think that's bad? Years ago when broke it off with my girlfriend, I got stuck with the cat.
victor809 Offline
#99 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 6:55 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Brewha wrote:
You think that's bad? Years ago when broke it off with my girlfriend, I got stuck with the cat.


You really should spin that better.

Instead, tell people you dumped the girl and she still gave you complete access to her *****
Brewha Offline
#100 Posted: Fri, Jan 24 2014, 7:04 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
victor809 wrote:
You really should spin that better.

Instead, tell people you dumped the girl and she still gave you complete access to her *****

Good point.

I guess it was true then that I had too much *****.
No, I don't think that line sells either . . . .
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