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Democratic Debates
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Brewha Offline
#1 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 7:43 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
Decent show – less than half the head count of the GOP debate.
Clinton credited with the kill – Sanders was strong.

While I like Sanders platform the best, and I trust him the most, I wonder if he really can accomplish much with the growing wage gap. Or the super packs. Can you really fight the owners of the country and win?
DrafterX Offline
#2 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 7:50 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
I was doing somethin else.... I don't even remember what it was now... Think
teedubbya Offline
#3 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 9:01 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Sanders looked angry to me.

This debate was more substantive than the GOP ones so far. Prolly purely due to numbers on the stage. I like hilldog even less after watching her. That runs true to every time I see her. Constantly changing but claiming not to. She has no soul. At least Cruz has a soul. Sure it belongs to the devil but he has one.
tonygraz Offline
#4 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 9:01 AM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,284
response to # 2 - A mind is a terrible thing to lose - it could make you a republican.
teedubbya Offline
#5 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 9:07 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
The sad part is the GOP needs more intelligent candidates rather than barking parrot flame throwers. They seem to be throwing out a collage of talking points without original or coherent thought right now. Just saying the things they are told to. There is someone in here mimicking the same technique and its not even worth responding to. I totally disagree with most of the democratic platform and want a smaller government, but in a substantive discussion with true give and take and no grandstanding/sound bites most on the gop stage couldn't hang with most on the dem stage. The GOP folks are more preprogrammed.


Good thing that's not necessary to win.
teedubbya Offline
#6 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 9:14 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Ya know... the GOP has always been the adult party to me and the Dems extreme whackos..... and I mean extreme whackos....


it was weird to see an adult debate last night and contrast it to the other....

again, I hope it's just a reflection of a crowded room....
Buckwheat Offline
#7 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 9:25 AM EST
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
There was a debate last night?
Gene363 Offline
#8 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 9:53 AM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838

Like the Crypt Keeper show without the movie.
Buckwheat Offline
#9 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 10:04 AM EST
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
Pretty much all of the debates have turned into a shadow play theater of the absurd. They never actually debate anything. It's a series of easy to digest sound bites that the general populous can understand. fog
Brewha Offline
#10 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 10:32 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
teedubbya wrote:
Sanders looked angry to me.

This debate was more substantive than the GOP ones so far. Prolly purely due to numbers on the stage. I like hilldog even less after watching her. That runs true to every time I see her. Constantly changing but claiming not to. She has no soul. At least Cruz has a soul. Sure it belongs to the devil but he has one.

Yeah, Not liking Clinton that much myself.
I agree with Sanders but I'm doubtful he can get is platform accomplished.

Cruz worries me - that man is bat guano crazy....
ZRX1200 Offline
#11 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 10:45 AM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
I agree with Buckwheat.

With this flavor of koolaid I think Sanders is easily the most honest and he's still a shill. Like the Donald, I don't think anyone who votes for Hilldog should have a vote.
cacman Offline
#12 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 11:23 AM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Couldn't even count the number of times I threw-up while listening to those shysters.
Just the sound of Hilldog's voice causes dry-heaves.
If one of the Dems bozos gets elected, we're all doomed.
teedubbya Offline
#13 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 1:52 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Are you the ghost of Karen carpenter or just a bit dramatic?
MACS Offline
#14 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 1:56 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,823
tonygraz wrote:
response to # 2 - A mind is a terrible thing to lose - it could make you a republican.


Never anything substantive. Just shots across the bow at the republicans... when, in fact, your precious democrats are forked tongued devils, as well.

Divided we will fall, indeed. Arguing about table scraps... smdh. Do any of you believe any politicians is not part of the 1%ers? They're all millionaires. They all take bribes. They are all beholden to the other 1%ers that contribute to their campaign fund.

"Oh, but Bernie gets his money from the regular folk." No... regular folk can't afford to contribute to political campaigns, or they're too apathetic because they know it doesn't matter who the **** gets in. We're doomed if we don't change something.
dstieger Offline
#15 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 1:58 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Just think... if Karen Carpenter had eaten Mama Cass's ham sandwich, they'd both be alive today!

They might be playing the State Fair circuit together and we'd be able to hear Rainy Days and Monday Mondays.
dstieger Offline
#16 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 2:09 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I'd like to have a cup of coffee with Bernie....but I'd be caught poking under Hildog's dress before I'd vote for a Socialist. Who the f actually thinks that socialist principles and policies are the way to a better future for this country. Is there one single thing that Sanders has proposed that won't propel us to rapid financial ruin? Aside, perhaps, from some libertarian/freedom type issues????
DrafterX Offline
#17 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 2:35 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
If we spend it, they will come... Mellow
Brewha Offline
#18 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 2:38 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
dstieger wrote:
I'd like to have a cup of coffee with Bernie....but I'd be caught poking under Hildog's dress before I'd vote for a Socialist. Who the f actually thinks that socialist principles and policies are the way to a better future for this country. Is there one single thing that Sanders has proposed that won't propel us to rapid financial ruin? Aside, perhaps, from some libertarian/freedom type issues????

I do.
ZRX1200 Offline
#19 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 2:45 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
Because they "work" or because he promises to punish the boogie men?
Brewha Offline
#20 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 2:50 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
We have lots and lots of socialist programs in this country – Roads, Schools, Police, etc. and spending more on education and infrastructure are ways to a better future in the country.

And for those who read the word ‘socialist’ and ran screaming – it’s ok. You can come back now…
ZRX1200 Offline
#21 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 2:58 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
I agree with the first statement.

The problem with public works projects now is inflated costs and the efficiency of those dollars. That's why so many don't agree with you (here I believe). Many don't want to reward bad behavior with more money and power. Maybe I'm crazy.

I would add with regard to schools and police, it should be localized. This country has gone WAY TOO far to centralized power no matter the party in power.
dstieger Offline
#22 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 3:00 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
"From each according to his abilities...to each according to his need"

Please educate me, Brew. ^ That's what I remember from Econ 101, but I may have it wrong. If that's the foundational belief, then I emphatically believe that the productivity, ingenuity, entrepreneurial spirit are not long for this country. How could 'socialist economic' driving principles have ANY chance at creating a prosperous United States?
ZRX1200 Offline
#23 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 3:06 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
I think we're seeing decreased innovation in everything EXCEPT tech now.
Brewha Offline
#24 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 5:23 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
dstieger wrote:
"From each according to his abilities...to each according to his need"

Please educate me, Brew. ^ That's what I remember from Econ 101, but I may have it wrong. If that's the foundational belief, then I emphatically believe that the productivity, ingenuity, entrepreneurial spirit are not long for this country. How could 'socialist economic' driving principles have ANY chance at creating a prosperous United States?

It seems that socialisum and communisum are the same thing. They are not.

And backing social programs it not evil. It enhances capitalism my not allowing it to run amok. While we don't like income tax, the money for our military, police, education and so on comes from somewhere.

With the ever growing wealth and pay gaps, a more "socialistic" approach and regulations are needed. I don't agree with trickle down economics. Businesses that send jobs overseas need to be taxed accordingly. If you work full time you should earn a living wage. People should not be bankrupted by an illness. All socialist ideas....

When the middle class is payed better the economy grows.

What does socialist economics mean to you?
fiddler898 Offline
#25 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 5:38 PM EST
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,782
Finally, a debate for grown-ups.
99cobra2881 Offline
#26 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 6:23 PM EST
Joined: 11-19-2013
Posts: 2,472
Brewha wrote:
It seems that socialisum and communisum are the same thing. They are not.

And backing social programs it not evil. It enhances capitalism my not allowing it to run amok. While we don't like income tax, the money for our military, police, education and so on comes from somewhere.

With the ever growing wealth and pay gaps, a more "socialistic" approach and regulations are needed. I don't agree with trickle down economics. Businesses that send jobs overseas need to be taxed accordingly. If you work full time you should earn a living wage. People should not be bankrupted by an illness. All socialist ideas....

When the middle class is payed better the economy grows.

What does socialist economics mean to you?


Socialist to me means illegal aliens getting the right to vote, welfare programs run rampant, dwindling work force, high inflation, sky rocketing crime rates, obamacare (healthcare tax), and higher taxes.

See Venezuela.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/13/food-inflation-its-getting-hard-for-venezuela-to-feed-itself.html

You think that because we have public schools, roads and a police force that's paid for by taxpayer dollars that socialism works? Really?

Margaret Thatcher said it best "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."
banderl Offline
#27 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 6:46 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
99cobra2881 wrote:
Socialist to me means illegal aliens getting the right to vote,



What does this have to do with socialism?
99cobra2881 Offline
#28 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 7:27 PM EST
Joined: 11-19-2013
Posts: 2,472
Democrat voter base
banderl Offline
#29 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 7:52 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
99cobra2881 wrote:
Democrat voter base



Grasping for straws?
Socialism is an economic system.
Has nothing to do with immigration policies.
Brewha Offline
#30 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 8:05 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
99cobra2881 wrote:
Socialist to me means illegal aliens getting the right to vote, welfare programs run rampant, dwindling work force, high inflation, sky rocketing crime rates, obamacare (healthcare tax), and higher taxes.

See Venezuela.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/13/food-inflation-its-getting-hard-for-venezuela-to-feed-itself.html

You think that because we have public schools, roads and a police force that's paid for by taxpayer dollars that socialism works? Really?

Margaret Thatcher said it best "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

Capitalism - can mean exploring children to the point of needing laws to stop them being used as slave labor - like we had to do at the turn of the past century. It can also mean Henry Ford building cars that common people could afford and changing the nation for the better.

The point is that socialisum - us all working as a society - is a broad idea. And like capitalism it can be a great thing. It can also be a really bad thing. The devil is in the details.

But I will give you this - it's scary.
Change always is.
99cobra2881 Offline
#31 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 8:07 PM EST
Joined: 11-19-2013
Posts: 2,472
Grasping at straws? How?

Democrats will make it possible for illegals to vote so they can get elected to office where they can carry out their socialist agenda. Even if the illegals aren't allowed to vote they're still counted by the census bureau and that affects how many electoral votes a state receives.

Hillary is talking about illegals children having the right to sign up for obamacare paid for by you and me. Thats socialism run rampant.

I have no problem with people wanting to or that do come here legally. Go about it legally and become an American citizen. Don't kick down my door, sit at my dinner table and expect me to set another place for you.



banderl Offline
#32 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 8:49 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
99cobra2881 wrote:
Socialist to me means illegal aliens getting the right to vote, welfare programs run rampant, dwindling work force, high inflation, sky rocketing crime rates, obamacare (healthcare tax), and higher taxes.

See Venezuela.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/13/food-inflation-its-getting-hard-for-venezuela-to-feed-itself.html

You think that because we have public schools, roads and a police force that's paid for by taxpayer dollars that socialism works? Really?

Margaret Thatcher said it best "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."




Your entire post was about socialism.
I simply pointed out that socialism has nothing to do with a country's immigration policies (illegal aliens).
To the best of my knowledge, illegals can't vote.
If you have any type of credible source citing examples of widespread illegal aliens voting, please share it with the class.
99cobra2881 Offline
#33 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 9:03 PM EST
Joined: 11-19-2013
Posts: 2,472
The question was "what does socialist economics mean to you"

I answered the question of what it means to me and I also said "illegals getting the right to vote" not that they've gotten the right to vote or have the right to vote already but I see that happening under the broad socialist agenda that most democrats have.
Covfireman Offline
#34 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 9:48 PM EST
Joined: 09-03-2015
Posts: 809
Socialist economics means we will stop the 40 year decline of the middle class , get big money out of politics, create decent paying jobs,care for our veterans, strengthen and expand social securit, reform wall street , and lower prescription drug cost. The question is can it all be accomplished? Who knows but why continue down the same path the country is going ?
99cobra2881 Offline
#35 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 10:26 PM EST
Joined: 11-19-2013
Posts: 2,472
Covfireman wrote:
Socialist economics means we will stop the 40 year decline of the middle class , get big money out of politics, create decent paying jobs,care for our veterans, strengthen and expand social securit, reform wall street , and lower prescription drug cost. The question is can it all be accomplished? Who knows but why continue down the same path the country is going ?



It all sounds great but how are we gonna pay for all that?

I'm just gonna go put big rock candy mountain on repeat and hope for the best.
teddyballgame Offline
#36 Posted: Wed, Oct 14 2015, 11:27 PM EST
Joined: 09-16-2015
Posts: 592
99cobra2881 wrote:


You think that because we have public schools, roads and a police force that's paid for by taxpayer dollars that socialism works? Really?

Margaret Thatcher said it best "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."



Amen brother, Amen!

Another rational thinking conservative in the HOUSE!

Loves me some Maggy Thatch.

Illegal aliens voted in masse in Santa Ana in Orange county and the democrat won an election there in 1996, later to find out that Illegal aliens did in fact vote.

cobra is correct in that even though illegals aren't supposed to vote, they are counted in the census and therefore sway the electoral votes for states like Ca and NY.

cobra, you and I should fire up a couple O stogies and take in some fine bourbon.
cacman Offline
#37 Posted: Thu, Oct 15 2015, 3:20 AM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Just reading this thread made me throw-up again.
Guess you could call it a socialist puke, as everyone in the vicinity got a piece of it.
Phffft!
Ooops... there went a another Hill-ball!
TMCTLT Offline
#38 Posted: Thu, Oct 15 2015, 7:41 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Brewha wrote:
We have lots and lots of socialist programs in this country – Roads, Schools, Police, etc. and spending more on education and infrastructure are ways to a better future in the country.

And for those who read the word ‘socialist’ and ran screaming – it’s ok. You can come back now…



Yes we do, and our infrastructure IS coming apart @ the seems!! They ( our elected thieves ) create all these new taxes or ad dons to existing ones....and when the coffers grow.....they rand sack them and take the $$ for something else, because they never tell the truth on costs of programs...they just launch them and then steal from Peter to pay Paul. We spend PLENTY on education already, but then the taxpayer was NEVER meant to pay for a bunch of Illegal Invaders children on TOP of paying for their own. **** Socialism....
TMCTLT Offline
#39 Posted: Thu, Oct 15 2015, 7:46 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Brewha wrote:
Capitalism - can mean exploring children to the point of needing laws to stop them being used as slave labor - like we had to do at the turn of the past century. It can also mean Henry Ford building cars that common people could afford and changing the nation for the better.

The point is that socialisum - us all working as a society - is a broad idea. And like capitalism it can be a great thing. It can also be a really bad thing. The devil is in the details.

But I will give you this - it's scary.
Change always is.



Apparently we ARE okay with that as long as it's China or someone else doing it.....amazing how the conscience is able to " overlook " certain issues when it's @ a distance
Brewha Offline
#40 Posted: Thu, Oct 15 2015, 7:58 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
Just to shed some light on an apparently dimly lit subject – In the county we have an economic system that is a combination of capitalism and socialism. Which is as it should be.

The issue at hand is does our capitalism need to be reined in a bit and saddled for the public good.
Brewha Offline
#41 Posted: Thu, Oct 15 2015, 8:01 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
TMCTLT wrote:
Apparently we ARE okay with that as long as it's China or someone else doing it.....amazing how the conscience is able to " overlook " certain issues when it's @ a distance

Are you suggesting with have a war on China or boycott them over civil rights issues?

I agree that is a good example of capitalism run amok….
Brewha Offline
#42 Posted: Thu, Oct 15 2015, 8:12 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
TMCTLT wrote:
Yes we do, and our infrastructure IS coming apart @ the seems!! They ( our elected thieves ) create all these new taxes or ad dons to existing ones....and when the coffers grow.....they rand sack them and take the $$ for something else, because they never tell the truth on costs of programs...they just launch them and then steal from Peter to pay Paul. We spend PLENTY on education already, but then the taxpayer was NEVER meant to pay for a bunch of Illegal Invaders children on TOP of paying for their own. **** Socialism....

It is unbridled capitalism that invites these “illegal invaders” to this country by allowing them to work undocumented. And that is why they stay. That is; they are here because people are making money off of them.

Don’t be too hard on the immigrants. Unless you’re Native American you have some in you ancestry.
TMCTLT Offline
#43 Posted: Thu, Oct 15 2015, 8:32 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Brewha wrote:
It is unbridled capitalism that invites these “illegal invaders” to this country by allowing them to work undocumented. And that is why they stay. That is; they are here because people are making money off of them.

Don’t be too hard on the immigrants. Unless you’re Native American you have some in you ancestry.



So put a bridle on it.....Don't shoot the *****ng horse!!!!!!

Bullsh*t......It IS all of our social welfare programs and access to our schools that keeps them coming for the most part. And your last claim...is SO WORN OUT. My ancestors came here LEGALLY....got it???? Understand the difference or just able to ignore it?? We are like many others...a country made up of LAWS, apparently some would prefer to pick and choose which ones we uphold
DrafterX Offline
#44 Posted: Thu, Oct 15 2015, 8:36 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Mine have been here like a million years or so.... Mellow



did you know the daddy long-legs spider has been around for like 200 million years and pre-dates the dinosaurs..?? Huh
teedubbya Offline
#45 Posted: Thu, Oct 15 2015, 8:48 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I heard socialism means illegal aliens get to vote and stuff.
DrafterX Offline
#46 Posted: Thu, Oct 15 2015, 8:52 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
teedubbya wrote:
I heard socialism means illegal aliens get to vote and stuff.



That might take one of them Executive Order things... but it's just a matter of time... Mellow
banderl Offline
#47 Posted: Thu, Oct 15 2015, 9:32 AM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
teddyballgame wrote:
Amen brother, Amen!



Illegal aliens voted in masse in Santa Ana in Orange county and the democrat won an election there in 1996, later to find out that Illegal aliens did in fact vote.




I can't seem to find an actual number for the amount of illegals who voted in this election. Can you?
banderl Offline
#48 Posted: Thu, Oct 15 2015, 9:38 AM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
teedubbya wrote:
I heard socialism means illegal aliens get to vote and stuff.



That's what I heard too.
Brewha Offline
#49 Posted: Thu, Oct 15 2015, 9:51 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
TMCTLT wrote:
So put a bridle on it.....Don't shoot the *****ng horse!!!!!!

Bullsh*t......It IS all of our social welfare programs and access to our schools that keeps them coming for the most part. And your last claim...is SO WORN OUT. My ancestors came here LEGALLY....got it???? Understand the difference or just able to ignore it?? We are like many others...a country made up of LAWS, apparently some would prefer to pick and choose which ones we uphold

Illegal aliens can’t get welfare. But they do come for jobs . And undocumented workers pay taxes and social security – while not being eligible for welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, and most other public benefits. Most of these programs require proof of legal immigration status and under the 1996 welfare law, even legal immigrants cannot receive these benefits until they have been in the United States for more than five years.

But at least we agree that we need the bridal on capitalism....
Speyside Offline
#50 Posted: Thu, Oct 15 2015, 9:52 AM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I heard it at cbid...........so it must be true.
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