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Last post 8 years ago by DrafterX. 136 replies replies.
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New Gun Confiscation Loophole...
DrafterX Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Just add someone to the "No Fly List'... No judge, no jury... just take his guns.... Think


Don't think this has happened yet but Obama and Hillary think it's a good idea.... Mellow
deadeyedick Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,120
One of my friends was informed he was on the no fly list when he tried to buy a ticket. With a name like Robert Johnson there might have been a little confusion. d'oh!

Took him weeks to get his ticket. Guess this is what "vetted" means.
DrafterX Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Yep.. could happen to anyone... and if Congress says Ok they could have taken his guns... prolly woulda been for more than a few weeks to get those back..... Mellow
dstieger Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
So....is the problem isn't really about guns? The problem is with the No Fly List?
DrafterX Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Both... putting your name on the flawed No Fly List will allow them to refuse to sell you/confiscate your guns... Mellow
tonygraz Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,284
dstieger wrote:
So....is the problem isn't really about guns? The problem is with the No Fly List?


No, the problem is with Drafter --- he can't find his fly and he's afraid he's going on the list.
TMCTLT Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
tonygraz wrote:
No, the problem is with Drafter --- he can't find his fly and he's afraid he's going on the list.




Move your head a little to the right.....there now he can see it. Your welcome citizen fog
cacman Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
deadeyedick wrote:
One of my friends was informed he was on the no fly list when he tried to buy a ticket. With a name like Robert Johnson there might have been a little confusion. d'oh!

Took him weeks to get his ticket. Guess this is what "vetted" means.

Lucky it only took him weeks. Have read reports where it can take up to years to get removed from "The List"

Am betting none of these folks from Homeland Security are on the "No Fly List"
http://www.teapartycrusaders.com/video-congressman-reveals-shocking-discovery-part-of-us-govt-may-be-infiltrated-by-terrorists/
ZRX1200 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
They HAVE to have presedence and that's what this is.
DrafterX Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
According to Obama's speech, opposing this will be allowing suspected terrorists to buy guns...
they thought up a good one here.. as long as you don't know all the details it sounds like the right thing to do.... Mellow
ZRX1200 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
Do suspected DUI drivers get their licenses revoked, or CONVICTED?

Keep giving up your rights sheep.
dstieger Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
If you are of the mind that one responsibility of our government to help ensure safety of its people......then you may have trouble arguing against a policy that keeps suspected 'dangerous' people off of airplanes.....IF you accept that those people are too dangerous to fly on your plane, I think most people are willing to keep them from possessing a gun.

I'm completely unfamiliar with the small print of 'no-fly laws/rules' as well as unfamiliar with the language of propose 'gun-control legislation'. However, as libertarian minded as I consider myself, I think I might be able to get behind well written and well executed law that mandates a list of people that should neither fly, nor have a gun.

IF we do the 'no-fly list' thing well, I don't see any reason the people on that list need to have a gun. So fix the no-fly thing and go ahead and then prevent those same people from having guns. Makes sense enough to me.
DrafterX Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
I don't have a problem with sheeps buying guns... Mellow
dstieger Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
ZRX1200 wrote:
Do suspected DUI drivers get their licenses revoked, or CONVICTED?

Keep giving up your rights sheep.



Not sure what this has to do with gun control or with no-fly lists.



I don't understand....safety and security of our citizens seems to be a huge priority for anyone right of Sanders....(and maybe Paul?), but....only if the proposals or messages are approved by the NRA
DrafterX Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
dstieger wrote:
If you are of the mind that one responsibility of our government to help ensure safety of its people......then you may have trouble arguing against a policy that keeps suspected 'dangerous' people off of airplanes.....IF you accept that those people are too dangerous to fly on your plane, I think most people are willing to keep them from possessing a gun.

I'm completely unfamiliar with the small print of 'no-fly laws/rules' as well as unfamiliar with the language of propose 'gun-control legislation'. However, as libertarian minded as I consider myself, I think I might be able to get behind well written and well executed law that mandates a list of people that should neither fly, nor have a gun.

IF we do the 'no-fly list' thing well, I don't see any reason the people on that list need to have a gun. So fix the no-fly thing and go ahead and then prevent those same people from having guns. Makes sense enough to me.



that's just it tho... owning a gun is a right.. to remove that right you have to be convicted of a felony... the people on the No Fly Lists are suspects that may or may not have convictions.. Yes, keep the bad guys on the list and off the planes and gun free if possible.. meanwhile, don't let some bureaucrat with an agenda decide who gets to be put on the list just because he posted somethin on a cigar forum... Mellow
teddyballgame Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 09-16-2015
Posts: 592
TMCTLT wrote:
Move your head a little to the right.....there now he can see it. Your welcome citizen fog




HA! Gold baby, that's gold!
dstieger Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
DrafterX wrote:
that's just it tho... owning a gun is a right.. to remove that right you have to be convicted of a felony... Mellow



I dunno....there's plenty of numbskulls out there who aren't technically felonious who probably shouldn't have guns. I am not prepared to discuss how to define mental stability or lack there of, but I got little problem with certifiably dangerously mentally deficient current/former/future patients being denied the right (or PRIVILEGE?) of gun ownership.
tonygraz Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,284
DrafterX wrote:
I don't have a problem with sheeps buying guns... Mellow


I heard you liked sheeps.
ZRX1200 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
"I'm libertarian but I'm OK with no due process"
ZRX1200 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
dstieger you a Patriot Act fan too?
dstieger Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Not in the least. From the earliest days, I felt it was an full on assault by the federal government - one that took full advantage of our uneasy state shortly after 9/11.
But, I suppose deep-down maybe I'm just more a 1st and 4th Amendment libertarian than a 2nd.
Speyside Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I am not OK with having constitutional rights taken away from any American without altering the constitution to do so. Loopholes that allow this to happen need to be eliminated.
ZRX1200 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
Well I recognize your honesty.
zerohourhero Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2015
Posts: 1,308
Once upon a time when I was a young PFC fresh out of basic, as I approached the check in at OKC going home for Christmas leave I was informed I was on the No Fly List.

Mind you I'm standing there fresh off a bus with "FORT SILL" on the side, in full ACU's and a duffle bag.

Took them an hour to get me removed....

THEN THE POWER IN THE AIRPORT WENT OUT FOR 6 HOURS.

Good times. I felt like I was in the Langoliers.
DrafterX Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Obama prolly put you on da list.... Mellow
zerohourhero Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2015
Posts: 1,308
DrafterX wrote:
Obama prolly put you on da list.... Mellow


Negative. This was December 2006.
DrafterX Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Prolly Hillary then... Mellow
gummy jones Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
due process is over rated

you mean you dont trust the government and their unwritten rules for a list that no one can access to do the right thing?
DrafterX Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
There are laws out there we aren't allowed to know about... Mellow
tonygraz Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,284
Ignorance of the law is no excuse !
DrafterX Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Somebody tell Hillary that... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
A secret list

The Obama administration’s suggestion that people on the Transportation Security Administration’s no-fly list be barred from owning guns made sense to many – at least at first.

“What could possibly be the argument for allowing a terrorist suspect to buy a semiautomatic weapon?” Obama asked the nation on Sunday during a prime time address following the San Bernardino terror attack. “This is a matter of national security.”

Some GOP presidential contenders and members of Congress even spoke in support of the idea.

But critics say not so fast.

They note the no-fly list is a secret one, doesn’t need to be explained or justified by the TSA and contains the names of many people who have never been charged or even formally suspected of any crime.

"The no-fly list at best is a blunt instrument to protect air travel, at worst a denial of the ability to travel without due process," said Cornell Law Professor William Jacobson. "That blunt instrument becomes even worse when used to deprive citizens of their explicit 2nd Amendment rights based on random and often secret information. We would not apply such randomness to other protected rights, and we should not do it as to the 2nd Amendment."

Mistakes

In the past, embarrassing blunders have shown the sometimes confusing rationale behind placing an individual on a U.S. terror watch list, such as the no-fly list.

The no-fly list has included members of Congress – including the late Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., and Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga. Members of the armed forces, too, have been on terror watch lists, as have U.S. air marshals and journalists, like Hayes.

Some estimates say 40 to 50 percent of the people on that terror watch list have nothing to do with terrorism.

Constitutional rights

A more important factor, critics say, is those added to the list are not given due process. That means President Obama’s appeal to prohibit gun ownership for those individuals could be considered unconstitutional.

“The Supreme Court has held that the right to keep and bear arms under the Constitution is a fundamental liberty,” Judge Andrew Napolitano told Fox News. “It’s in the same category as speech and religion and travel and privacy. You can only lose it if you’re found guilty of a crime by a jury.”

Film at 11... Mellow
ZRX1200 Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
Hillary Clinton now says what she told the families of Benghazi was because of the "fog of war".
DrafterX Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Musta been from all that sniper she took in Bosnia ehh..?? Eh?


"I say a lot of things -- millions of words a day -- so if I misspoke, that was just a misstatement," she said.

Think
Gene363 Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838

It's just a red herring on the road to total gun confiscation. It will always be, "Just one more common sense measure." until suddenly, you're a government subject and no longer a citizen.
deadeyedick Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,120
DrafterX wrote:
A secret list

The Obama administration’s suggestion that people on the Transportation Security Administration’s no-fly list be barred from owning guns made sense to many – at least at first.

“What could possibly be the argument for allowing a terrorist suspect to buy a semiautomatic weapon?” Obama asked the nation on Sunday during a prime time address following the San Bernardino terror attack. “This is a matter of national security.”

Some GOP presidential contenders and members of Congress even spoke in support of the idea.

But critics say not so fast.

They note the no-fly list is a secret one, doesn’t need to be explained or justified by the TSA and contains the names of many people who have never been charged or even formally suspected of any crime.

"The no-fly list at best is a blunt instrument to protect air travel, at worst a denial of the ability to travel without due process," said Cornell Law Professor William Jacobson. "That blunt instrument becomes even worse when used to deprive citizens of their explicit 2nd Amendment rights based on random and often secret information. We would not apply such randomness to other protected rights, and we should not do it as to the 2nd Amendment."

Mistakes

In the past, embarrassing blunders have shown the sometimes confusing rationale behind placing an individual on a U.S. terror watch list, such as the no-fly list.

The no-fly list has included members of Congress – including the late Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., and Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga. Members of the armed forces, too, have been on terror watch lists, as have U.S. air marshals and journalists, like Hayes.

Some estimates say 40 to 50 percent of the people on that terror watch list have nothing to do with terrorism.

Constitutional rights

A more important factor, critics say, is those added to the list are not given due process. That means President Obama’s appeal to prohibit gun ownership for those individuals could be considered unconstitutional.

“The Supreme Court has held that the right to keep and bear arms under the Constitution is a fundamental liberty,” Judge Andrew Napolitano told Fox News. “It’s in the same category as speech and religion and travel and privacy. You can only lose it if you’re found guilty of a crime by a jury.”

Film at 11... Mellow



Too bad we didn't have a no drive list back then. Mary Jo could have used it.

DED
pdxstogieman Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 10-04-2007
Posts: 5,219
"The no-fly list at best is a blunt instrument to protect air travel, at worst a denial of the ability to travel without due process," said Cornell Law Professor William Jacobson. "That blunt instrument becomes even worse when used to deprive citizens of their explicit 2nd Amendment rights based on random and often secret information. We would not apply such randomness to other protected rights, and we should not do it as to the 2nd Amendment."


So let me get this straight, we need to be concerned with protecting constitutional rights if we're talking about gun rights, but not when Trump advocates registering all citizens of a particular religious affiliation. Ok, some rights are obviously more righteous depending on whether one is a member of the demographic whose rights are being infringed. That's @$$ hattery of the highest order. Congratulations on your achievement.
gummy jones Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
If they are too dangerous to fly or own a gun then why isn't the gov rounding the up? Why are they still allowed to drive our kids to school and make my food?
gummy jones Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
pdxstogieman wrote:
"The no-fly list at best is a blunt instrument to protect air travel, at worst a denial of the ability to travel without due process," said Cornell Law Professor William Jacobson. "That blunt instrument becomes even worse when used to deprive citizens of their explicit 2nd Amendment rights based on random and often secret information. We would not apply such randomness to other protected rights, and we should not do it as to the 2nd Amendment."


So let me get this straight, we need to be concerned with protecting constitutional rights if we're talking about gun rights, but not when Trump advocates registering all citizens of a particular religious affiliation. Ok, some rights are obviously more righteous depending on whether one is a member of the demographic whose rights are being infringed. That's @$$ hattery of the highest order. Congratulations on your achievement.


I didn't realize this was a trump thread Anxious
tonygraz Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,284
Trump will comment sooner or later and pick up a few more hater votes in the process.
Gene363 Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838
tonygraz wrote:
Trump will comment sooner or later and pick up a few more hater votes in the process.


Funny, I never saw you as a Trump voter.
DrafterX Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
pdxstogieman wrote:
"The no-fly list at best is a blunt instrument to protect air travel, at worst a denial of the ability to travel without due process," said Cornell Law Professor William Jacobson. "That blunt instrument becomes even worse when used to deprive citizens of their explicit 2nd Amendment rights based on random and often secret information. We would not apply such randomness to other protected rights, and we should not do it as to the 2nd Amendment."


So let me get this straight, we need to be concerned with protecting constitutional rights if we're talking about gun rights, but not when Trump advocates registering all citizens of a particular religious affiliation. Ok, some rights are obviously more righteous depending on whether one is a member of the demographic whose rights are being infringed. That's @$$ hattery of the highest order. Congratulations on your achievement.




who achieved what..??? Huh
TMCTLT Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733

Drafter...Gummy, you fellas are wasting your time....pdx is an Obummer kinda consitutionalist....

Whateva Barry says......GOES!!!! He and many like him require nothing else in exchange for their....loyalty???
cacman Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
pdxstogieman wrote:
So let me get this straight, we need to be concerned with protecting constitutional rights if we're talking about gun rights, but not when Trump advocates registering all citizens of a particular religious affiliation. Ok, some rights are obviously more righteous depending on whether one is a member of the demographic whose rights are being infringed. That's @$$ hattery of the highest order. Congratulations on your achievement.

Believe former elected President Jimmy Carter initiated similar policies towards Iranians during his term.
It's amazing to see how attitudes & policies have changed. What we would not put up with years ago is now acceptable. Obama has pussified this Country with political correctness
DrafterX Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
OhMyGod

The cacman just made da list... Sad
gummy jones Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
cacman wrote:
Believe former elected President Jimmy Carter initiated similar policies towards Iranians during his term.
It's amazing to see how attitudes & policies have changed. What we would not put up with years ago is now acceptable. Obama has pussified this Country with political correctness


they told me we have evolved past man's trivial urges of greed and lust
im just hoping the rest of the world gets the memo Think
cacman Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
DrafterX wrote:
OhMyGod

The cacman just made da list... Sad

I've been good, and hoping Santa brings me a new shotgun!

http://poorrichardsnews.com/reminder-jimmy-carter-banned-all-iranians-from-entering-us/
tonygraz Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,284
Are you really equating national origin with religion ?
tonygraz Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,284
Gene363 wrote:
Funny, I never saw you as a Trump voter.


Thank you !
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