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BFD. Ever heard of abolitionists? Ya know who John Brown was?

White dude. Fighting with the slaves for their freedom. WTF people... everyone wants to point to the white man, when in fact it was white men who helped right the wrong. History... they still teach that shit, right?

Yes, and they are heroes who embody the goodwill of all mankind, and should be celebrated as such. There are still significant numbers who believe they are villains and fight tooth and nail against any measures to create a fully just society. And so, we still have a ways to go to achieve true equality: all men are created equal, one man one vote...

What are possible solutions? Well... you can tell that group to suck it up. But that's not really going to solve anything. You can get rid of a national anthem... but that seems drastic. You can officially change the national anthem to something which doesn't have lyrics in it that are thrilled about killing slaves... I suppose you could officially change the lyrics of the national anthem to remove that stanza...

This is a so what. The anthem is not changing because they want it to.

How are we not equal? I mean... aside from affirmative action, which ensures minorities get hired at a certain percentage.

Black men are 6% of the country, 70% of the NFL, and the NFL created the 'Rooney rule' so they could be interviewed for coaching positions, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phPXTWJhnYM&t=222s

TCBY... you truly are a treasure. I really hope that everyone here appreciates fully what is brought to any discussion. I thought there was no way anyone would take that position on this forum. No way. But you, with either your completely dulled sense of irony, or extraordinarily fine tuned sense of satire, went there.... I'm not sure whether you're completely dull or a genius... of if you wrap all the way around from one side to the other....

First... a discussion about "opinions" vs "facts"... very little of what was said was the historian's opinion. They have facts: That there were american owned slaves who escaped and fought for the british. This is a fact whether the historian is american or british. An additional fact pointed out by Mattie was that the british used press gangs for their ships during this era. Additional facts include a recent defeat of the slave battalion by the american forces somewhat contemporaneous with the writing of the lyrics of the star spangled banner. If you think these facts changes based on origination of the information then you should never be involved in any important decision ever again.

The "opinion" part comes in when the historian some of these items are related. As Mattie thinks the press gangs is related to the lyrics, and a british historian (and others) believe that the slave battalions are related. That isn't such a complex amount of information that you can't simply form your own opinion. This isn't a "I don't trust their opinion" sort of situation. In my opinion (as an american) it seems likely that the lyric, which says "slaves" applies to "slaves". That's not hard to figure. It's Matties opinion that the lyric which says "slaves" applies to "press gangs"... I don't think that's as likely, but I can't tell him definitively that he's wrong. But you, however... are very... very... wrong. Because you don't seem to understand where fact and opinion stop and begin...

Now that the boring part is over... let's get to the fun.

I am extraordinarily glad that you are of the opinion that people from a country which lost a war shouldn't have any input on anything regarding said war. I assume that you are of the same opinion regarding confederate statues? Ignoring the opinion of individuals from the former Confederate States of America will make it much easier to find consensus one what to do with these dumb statues.

You are certain it no longer exists after nearly two centuries of systemic, state sponsored inequality, where the minorities were legally deprived of many opportunities, let alone basic rights afforded the majority, and many of the majority who benefited from those institutions, to the detriment of the minorities, are still alive? And their progeny don't resent the fact that societal norms that favored them and their forbears in the past are prohibited, that their once elevated positions in the social order has been diminished? You're certain that none of that matters today? The Civil Rights Act wiped the slate clean and gave everyone a fresh start?

The John Birch Society got huge in Orange County, CA in the 60's.

My family still couldn't buy homes in many neighborhoods into the '80's.

How do you explain the rise of nationalism and populism and the accompanying resurgence of the white supremacy movement today?

Inequality is not due to systemic racism: because it has been outlawed? That's like saying most people were satisfied and complied with Prohibition. Like everyone is happy with Social Security and Medicare and want to keep and improve them...

At risk of being labelled a race baiter and told to leave my home country, as if someone here has the authority and might to make that decree...

No question that all the discriminatory laws are off the books, or if still in existence, are unenforceable. No question racism is much less open...no question more people are tolerant of minorities. Laws can and did change...that process was slightly less daunting than changing attitudes and beliefs. The Civil Rights Act didn't level the actual playing field...minorities still lived in sub-standard areas of town, unable to get jobs open only to whites, attending the same crummy schools they went to before the laws of equality were passed. And most importantly, still lived in a society where nearly half of the people opposed granting them the same rights they enjoyed. Look around...they still do, for the most part, and they still are...

But for all our flaws, I believe this is the greatest country in the world today, one that will progress in unimaginable ways.

... there are more people accepting of minorities. As an example, the number of inter-racial marriages (like mine) has increased tremendously, nearly 6 times the rate compared to 50 years ago at the passage of the CRA. But there are also indications of tolerance ... Some cities are seeing ethnic and racial segregation. People live next to each other but barely interact.