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School shooting in Fl
coolbreeze68 Offline
#101 Posted:
Joined: 02-02-2010
Posts: 3,665
Just thinking....

We have to put more resources toward protecting our schools.
I would say we have gotten better at protecting our airports / gov buildings, etc. Unfortunately, that needs to trickle down.
When I let my kids, or grand kids, drive, go to the mall, the concert, the airport (anywhere else an accident can occur, it's up to me to weigh that risk (daily).
Well, school falls into the category.
I think, just my opinion, that the responsibility falls on the individual city / county. That means us, as property owners, taxpayers, voters, etc. to protect our children using our time, talents, and treasures.
Our city employs full time officers that rotate at the high school, and one middle school. My understanding is if it's their day, they are there all day during school hours.
And we still have plenty of officers working traffic and crime. Costs come from our property tax. Hasn't slowed the drug problem, but everyone that comes in has to walk by an officer.
Every county is different, # of schools, # of students, amount of resources. Up to the taxpayers to decide. We are ultimately responsible for our children, even in school.

We are not going to cure crazy, stupid or evil any time soon, but we could implement better security by the weekend.
All it takes is the whole town showing up at the city council meeting demanding we do better and willing to pay for it.

Just thinking....
frankj1 Offline
#102 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,234
DrafterX wrote:
I'd do this for Frank... Mellow

but I'm a fat kid...


been having trouble reading this thread...so had to make a joke to do it.
teedubbya Offline
#103 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
For the record I'm behind frank and drafter.... unless they are behind me.


Does the word terrorist come in to play here or is that only reserved for islam?
abjd14 Offline
#104 Posted:
Joined: 08-08-2012
Posts: 396
Having read previous reports but what are some opinions to make schools safer? This was carried out by a student who had inside knowledge of how schools prepare to prevent such tragedies and was able to plan the most effectife way to harm other with that knowlege
abjd14 Offline
#105 Posted:
Joined: 08-08-2012
Posts: 396
Haven't
Speyside Offline
#106 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
By definition these seem to be acts of terror. I think the one thing obvious and this thread proves it is there is no straight forward answer.
coolbreeze68 Offline
#107 Posted:
Joined: 02-02-2010
Posts: 3,665
abjd14 wrote:
Having read previous reports but what are some opinions to make schools safer? This was carried out by a student who had inside knowledge of how schools prepare to prevent such tragedies and was able to plan the most effectife way to harm other with that knowlege



I may be going overboard here, but there is a pretty good model at the White House, Congress, and most City Halls.
And I think those "grown-ups" are better suited to protect themselves.

We could scale it down to suite the childrens.

Just have to pony up those time, talents and treasures.

The question is.....are they worth it? (Not kidding)
bgz Offline
#108 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Speyside wrote:
By definition these seem to be acts of terror. I think the one thing obvious and this thread proves it is there is no straight forward answer.


Ya, I would agree with that. These are terrorist acts, they should be treated as such.
teedubbya Offline
#109 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Speyside wrote:
By definition these seem to be acts of terror. I think the one thing obvious and this thread proves it is there is no straight forward answer.



Completely agree. As I said earlier, I am frustrated that I don't even have my own strong opinion on what to do. Usually I can at least get that far.

I do know its not the press' fault, it's not movies, dirty magazines or the devils rock and roll, praying while great isn't going to stop it, strength and vigilance (or whatever) sounds nice but isn't exactly operational, more guns is silly (which should not be interpreted as less guns or really anything other than just not being the solution), .... on and on and on....

I'm frustrated I can easily recognize what in my mind won't work but have no clue what will. I try really hard not to think that way. But this one has me there.
gummy jones Offline
#110 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
As accountability and morality erode I worry we will see more and more of this sort of stuff. Despair is just so rampant.

It does make me scratch my head that we have guys with guns guarding our money but our kids are sitting ducks in gun free zones.
coolbreeze68 Offline
#111 Posted:
Joined: 02-02-2010
Posts: 3,665
Maybe change one hour at a time.

Now I'm starting to feel guilty that I've had 3 free hours this afternoon. Instead of volunteering at my grandson's school, I'm playing video games, cleaning guns, and hanging out on cbid.

Hmmmm, how to volunteer without looking like the creepy old guy???
deadeyedick Offline
#112 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,136
abjd14 wrote:
Having read previous reports but what are some opinions to make schools safer? This was carried out by a student who had inside knowledge of how schools prepare to prevent such tragedies and was able to plan the most effectife way to harm other with that knowlege


Looks like the future of schools security may be something close to a TSA type screen for metal long before an individual can get close to the actual classrooms. I really can't think of anything that can stop an attack fully. He could have just stuck a gun through a chain link fence and sprayed a dozen kids at recess.
teedubbya Offline
#113 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Let’s be honest here. It’s not just schools.
deadeyedick Offline
#114 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,136
Yep. Schools are an easy target but any crowd will do.
DrafterX Offline
#115 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,566
True.. true.. I can see a problem arising from armed volunteers at schools also... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#116 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I dunno. Every time I’ve been in active shooter training they point out the issue of multiple folks with guns shooting innocents, shooting first responders....you know the guys in Black carrying weapons, and getting shot by first responders who have no idea if they are the good guys or bad guys with guns.

That’s just the homeland security training I’ve been through given by the commie lib FBI.
frankj1 Offline
#117 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,234
teedubbya wrote:
I dunno. Every time I’ve been in active shooter training they point out the issue of multiple folks with guns shooting innocents, shooting first responders....you know the guys in Black carrying weapons, and getting shot by first responders who have no idea if they are the good guys or bad guys with guns.

That’s just the homeland security training I’ve been through given by the commie lib FBI.

I blame J. Edgar
teedubbya Offline
#118 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
He was a ninny.
DrafterX Offline
#119 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,566
I understand that... Just one of the problems... Mellow
banderl Offline
#120 Posted:
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
teedubbya wrote:
He was a ninny.



He was kind of hot when he cross dressed.
frankj1 Offline
#121 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,234
banderl wrote:
He was kind of hot when he cross dressed.

if he tried that now he'd be a liberal
Speyside Offline
#122 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Nah, he just didn't have the legs for it.
DrafterX Offline
#123 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,566
Mellow
bgz Offline
#124 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
You guys saying his name was Hoover for a reason?
teedubbya Offline
#125 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Drafter dated him once
bgz Offline
#126 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Who paid?
teedubbya Offline
#127 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
The tax payers.
frankj1 Offline
#128 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,234
this is my fault.
I said "check, please".
teedubbya Offline
#129 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Good thing you don’t play hockey. You’d get hurt.

Sort of like Donald Duck took on a new meaning to the secret service last year.
Speyside Offline
#130 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
After they stopped laughing?
teedubbya Offline
#131 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Have they?
JadeRose Offline
#132 Posted:
Joined: 05-15-2008
Posts: 19,525
frankj1 wrote:
this is my fault.
I said "check, please".




We know this is a lie, Frank. You're Jewish.
frankj1 Offline
#133 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,234
JadeRose wrote:
We know this is a lie, Frank. You're Jewish.

I wish you posted more often.
Brewha Offline
#134 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
teedubbya wrote:
Have they?

No.
Burner02 Offline
#135 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,884
"To the cowards who think gunning down an innocent crowd is power, this is the face of Aaron Feis, who stood in the line of fire to protect children that did not biologically belong to him.

This is what real power looks like.
I will remember his name, and I have already forgotten yours.

To the heartbroken masses who have accepted that our new normal includes 8 school shootings with injuries or fatalities in the first 7 weeks of the year, and that the best we can muster is sad resignation, this is the face of Aaron Feis, who took the imperfect moment he was given to stand for the vulnerable.

Thanks be to God for the ones who don't resign their responsibility.

To those in power who argue incessantly about what is the real cause and who is really at fault, and then do absolutely nothing, this is the face of Aaron Feis, who gave up his life to do something, and had to do something, because you have done nothing.

For heaven's sake, try something.
Anything.

And for all the rest of us, do not let the bullies define this world.
Do not let the cowards have the day.
For every one of them, there are a dozen faces like this in the wings.

This is the face of the world I choose to live in, the country I love.

This is the face of Aaron Feis."


Written by Brian Erickson —-pastor of Trinity United Methodist Church in Homewood, AL
teedubbya Offline
#136 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I thought axl wrote that
banderl Offline
#137 Posted:
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
Look at the orange idiot's twitter pic.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Rubio looks sick.
Speyside Offline
#138 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Thank you Burner.
HuckFinn Offline
#139 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Yeah, Burner, that's some powerful stuff.

Finally students are entering the conversation in a major way in March.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43105701
cacman Offline
#140 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Teachers say Florida suspect’s problems started in middle school, and the system tried to help him

PARKLAND, Fla. — The real problems started at least as early as middle school and quickly intensified. There were the vocal outbursts, disturbing drawings of stick figures with guns, constant disciplinary issues. There were threatening statements written on his homework and scrap paper, including a reference to killing President Barack Obama, saying he should be “burned alive and eaten.”

Some teachers banned Nikolas Cruz from their classrooms at Westglades Middle School because of his erratic behavior. One teacher said he was barred from bringing a backpack to the school and that security personnel had to search him to ensure he didn’t have weapons. Teachers were very concerned about him and were working to get him help.

“Looking in his eyes, he just looked like there was a problem,” said a teacher who worked with Cruz in sixth grade and spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the topic. “His behavior in class wasn’t constantly wrong, but every once in a while, it was. He would just spew something out of his mouth that was inappropriate.”

Several teachers who knew Cruz in middle school said in interviews that he was an increasing behavioral challenge for the school system and appeared to be on a troublesome path. In the years before he would allegedly carry out one of the worst mass shootings at a school in U.S. history, Cruz faced a long string of escalating disciplinary measures throughout his academic career for insubordination, profanity, disruption, fighting and assault.

“I can say I was so uncomfortable around him, I did not want to be alone with him in my classroom,” said one former teacher, who also spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the topic. “That is how disruptive his behavior was.”

In one school year, when Cruz was in middle school, he racked up numerous infractions — including for a fight during the second week of school and continuing with a pattern of unruly behavior, insults and profanity, according to disciplinary records obtained by WPLG-Local 10, an ABC television affiliate in Miami that shared the records with The Washington Post.

Teachers said that by eighth grade he was lashing out physically — randomly bumping other students in the hallways, appearing to want to pick confrontations and fights, and at times breaking into profanity-laced tirades without any apparent trigger.

“Something would just upset him and he would just do it and come to class and act out,” one teacher said. His homework scrawls got more troublesome, including repeated tirades against American society, the comment about Obama and other writings teachers found alarming. He put a swastika on a test. He wrote about his intense interest in, and support for, guns.

His middle school and high school teachers referred him to individual and family counseling, the records show. They held parent conferences and called social workers. They sent him to in-school suspension, and they sent him off campus. For a time, they sent him to a school for emotionally disturbed youth. Finally, after he was disciplined for an assault at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High, they asked for an assessment of the threat he posed to his school, and ultimately he was expelled, about a year before he returned with a gun.

A person familiar with the records confirmed their authenticity, and interviews with teachers, administrators and those who knew Cruz — along with other records and accounts — show that he was well-known to school and mental health authorities and was entrenched in the process for getting students help rather than referring them to law enforcement.

It is unclear how complete the records are, and a Broward County schools spokeswoman said she could not comment on them due to “student privacy rules.”

Instead of slipping through the cracks, it appears Cruz was the target of aggressive work to help put him on the right track. But it also appears he might have hit the limit of what could be done.

[‘People are angry’: Pain turns political in Parkland after school shooting]

Teachers worked “very, very, very hard” to get Cruz to a school center that would help him address his issues, said the sixth-grade teacher, who noted that Cruz’s now-deceased mother also understood his problems and wanted to get him help. But that process took years, the teacher said, and required loads of paperwork to back up Cruz’s needs.

“We do, as teachers, everything that we possibly can to help these children, we truly do,” the teacher said. “And it’s a process. It’s a big process. You have to have just so much information, which we did on him, we had so much.”

Cruz’s past interactions with the Broward County schools have come into increasing focus since the shooting Wednesday, when he took an Uber to his former high school, walked inside and allegedly started firing into classrooms on two floors, killing 17 people, many of them teenagers. A school official — on notice that he could pose a danger — immediately raised concerns with other staffers upon seeing him approach, but it was too late.

Howard Finkelstein, the Broward County public defender representing Cruz, has decried the shooting as avoidable, emphasizing all the red flags that were missed in his client’s life — including at school, in the mental health system and with the FBI, which failed to investigate a tip last month that Cruz seemed capable of violence and might shoot up a school.

“What we have gathered so far looks to us like this is a complete multi-system failure, that you had the school system failed . . . you had the mental health system failed,” Finkelstein said. “When he went to purchase a gun, that system failed. . . . The FBI failed. When you look at it, this should never have happened.”

Broward Schools Superintendent Robert Runcie declined to comment on Cruz’s disciplinary past, but he said he is reviewing how Cruz’s case was handled.

“There’s always more that you could do, or could have done, but the fact is that there’s more that the federal leadership and government could do,” Runcie said in an interview Saturday. “They could put resources and make priority investments so that we can properly service these students who are disengaged or have mental health issues. That’s what could have been done better.”

Runcie said that while the district has a responsibility to ensure student safety, it cannot fall solely on a school district to handle mental illness.

“We need greater investments in mental health, social emotional services for our kids,” Runcie said. “It’s not just a school district problem. We can’t solve every problem.”

According to federal data, the district had about 580 counselors during the 2015-2016 school year, or about one counselor for every 462 students. The American School Counselor Association recommends one counselor for every 250 students.

While the school system falls short, it still has a far lower student to counselor ratio than most school districts in the United States.

Broward County schools once recorded more in-school arrests than any other Florida school system. But that harsh approach fell out of favor amid concerns that it was funneling too many young people — and particularly black and Hispanic students — into the juvenile justice system. Cruz is listed on official documents as being white.

In recent years, Broward schools became a leader in the national move toward a different kind of discipline — one that would not just punish students, but also would help them address the root causes of their misbehavior. Such policies aim to combat what is known as the “school-to-prison pipeline,” giving teenagers a chance to stick with their education rather than get derailed, often permanently, by criminal charges.

Beginning in 2013, Broward stopped referring students to police for about a dozen infractions ranging from alcohol and drug use to bullying, harassment and assault. Instead, students who get in trouble for those infractions are offered an alternative program that emphasizes counseling, conflict resolution skills and referral to community social service agencies.

Jonathon Fishman, spokesman for the Broward Sheriff’s Office, said last week that he had no record of deputies arresting Cruz before Wednesday.

As a result, Broward has seen a dramatic decline in the number of students who are arrested at school. In 2011-2012, Broward recorded 1,056 school-based arrests; by 2015-2016, that number had fallen 63 percent to 392 school-based arrests.

The Obama administration held up Broward’s transformed discipline system as a national model, inviting Runcie to speak about the district’s approach in 2015.

Cruz’s school records and interviews indicate that he was getting into trouble around the time of the policy shift.

One former middle school teacher said Cruz stood out in his mind among his problem students. He recalled “just him being very much a loner” and “erratic behaviors” that often disrupted his class. Sometimes, the former teacher said, Cruz would get up and begin dancing.

“At the time I never felt like he was a physical threat, but we knew that there was definitely deep issues,” he said.

Teachers began to press school administrators to have Cruz transferred to Cross Creek School, a K-12 public school for students with emotional and behavior disabilities that offers intensive psychiatric counseling. But one of Cruz’s former teachers said the referral process into Cross Creek was agonizingly slow, complicated by a lack of classroom space and cumbersome state procedures for officially designating a student as a potential threat to himself or others.

“It’s very hard to get a kid in there, very hard,” the teacher said. “I don’t know why, but I suspect it comes down to money. . . . So for three-fourths of the year, he went untreated at school.”

In February 2014, Cruz was transferred to Cross Creek. In January 2016, after about two years at Cross Creek, he transferred to Douglas High. It’s not clear why he left Cross Creek, a small school tailored for his needs, for a sprawling comprehensive high school of more than 3,000 students.

At Douglas, Cruz got into trouble four times during the first half of the 2016-2017 school year — for fighting, insults and profanity. In September 2016, after a fight, Cruz was referred to social workers. A week later, the Department of Children and Families opened an investigation.

That agency found that in the aftermath of a breakup with his girlfriend, Cruz — who had been diagnosed with attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder and autism — was depressed and cutting himself, according to a confidential summary of the investigation obtained by The Post. Cruz was interested in buying a gun, the investigators found. Even so, they concluded he was a low risk for harm.

School officials, who knew Cruz well, appeared to challenge that notion, according to the report. They had noticed an abrupt change in Cruz’s behavior after the breakup. The counselors had received reports not only that he was cutting himself, but also that he had drawn a Nazi symbol on his bookbag. School counselors raised concerns that it would be “premature” to conclude that Cruz was stable enough not to be hospitalized. A counselor who worked with Cruz at the time declined to comment when reached Saturday.

In January 2017, when Cruz was disciplined for an alleged assault, that triggered a call for a threat assessment, a formal process by which the school determines whether a student is dangerous and how that student should be supervised and supported.

Three weeks after the call for the threat assessment, Cruz transferred to an alternative high school. It’s not clear whether the assessment was conducted, what its findings were or how those findings translated into any intervention.

The shooting has been “devastating” to Cruz’s sixth-grade teacher, who said she has former students among the dead, and also has taught siblings of the victims.

“It’s too hard. It’s too much. It’s awful what he did,” she said, her voice breaking. “And the only reason I’m talking to you is because people need to know that it shouldn’t be this hard to get someone the help they need.”



https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/teachers-say-florida-shooters-problems-started-in-middle-school-and-the-system-tried-to-help-him/2018/02/18/cdff7aa6-1413-11e8-9065-e55346f6de81_story.html
HuckFinn Offline
#141 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Link comparing usa gun violence incidents to other nations

Plus insights about school shootings...cnn's town hall event..worthwhile read imo


https://qz.com/1212809/compare-us-mass-shootings-and-gun-control-to-germany-china-russia-switzerland-and-australia/
Brewha Offline
#142 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
But Hillary......
HuckFinn Offline
#143 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Brewha wrote:
But Hillary......

That biatch
tailgater Offline
#144 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
HuckFinn wrote:
Link comparing usa gun violence incidents to other nations

Plus insights about school shootings...cnn's town hall event..worthwhile read imo


https://qz.com/1212809/compare-us-mass-shootings-and-gun-control-to-germany-china-russia-switzerland-and-australia/


A comparison is only fair if it is equal.
America is a superior country to any of those.
If I thought otherwise I'd move there.

I hear North Korea had zero school shootings* last year.







*not government sanctioned.

jjanecka Offline
#145 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
Man whatever, I'm not gonna say multiple systems failed or whatever. Seriously they're mad because he got into a few fights, drew pictures of guns, and had racist chit on his test papers? That could have literally been any adolescent male in the 1990's. Big deal.
teedubbya Offline
#146 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Yea it’s not like he took communion without your permission and stuff
frankj1 Offline
#147 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,234
memory like an elephant
teedubbya Offline
#148 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
frankj1 wrote:
memory like an elephant


Body like one too
jjanecka Offline
#149 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2015
Posts: 4,334
Well it's settled the natural solution of letting teachers carry firearms seems to be the most logical route. I agree with trump.
teedubbya Offline
#150 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
jjanecka wrote:
Well it's settled the natural solution of letting teachers carry firearms seems to be the most logical route. I agree with trump.



I say we arm resource officers too.
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