America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 6 years ago by Speyside. 241 replies replies.
5 Pages12345>
Florida School Shooting Timeline
Gene363 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,815
This time line is going to make some people angry and other sad, but here it is:

“Feb. 5, 2016: a Broward Sheriff’s Office deputy is told by an anonymous caller that Nikolas Cruz, then 17, had threatened on Instagram to shoot up his school and posted a photo of himself with guns,” miamiherald.com reports. “The information is forwarded to BSO Deputy Scot Peterson, a school resource officer at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.” Yes, you read right . . .

the same Scot Peterson who stood outside the school for four minutes while Nikolas Cruz shot and killed 17 students and wounded 14 others knew Cruz’s intentions to commit a spree killing almost two years to the day before Cruz launched his attack.

In November 2017, “a caller from Massachusetts calls BSO to report that Cruz is collecting guns and knives and could be a ‘school shooter in the making.'” The Herald reports that an unidentified Broward Sheriff’s Office Deputy “advises the caller to contact the Palm Beach sheriff.” And . . . that’s it.

The fresh revelations add fuel to the pyre of the FBI, the federal agency that failed to act on specific, credible information warning them that Nikolas Cruz planned on attacking Marjory Douglas Stoneman High School.

In fact, the deadly shooting was the end result of a cascade of government failure. The Herald compiled a timeline of the missed opportunities to intercept the spree killer and remove him from society. That is, the ones we know about so far . . .

Feb. 5, 2016: A Broward Sheriff’s Office deputy is told by an anonymous caller that Nikolas Cruz, then 17, had threatened on Instagram to shoot up his school and posted a photo of himself with guns. The information is forwarded to BSO Deputy Scot Peterson (the same officer that failed to act during the shooting), a school resource officer at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

Sept. 23, 2016: A “peer counselor” reports to Peterson that Cruz had possibly ingested gasoline in a suicide attempt, was cutting himself and wanted to buy a gun. A mental health counselor advises against involuntary committing Cruz. The high school says it will conduct a threat assessment.

Sept. 28, 2016: An investigator for the Florida Department of Children and Families rules Cruz is stable, despite “fresh cuts” on his arms. His mother, Lynda Cruz, says in the past he wrote a racial slur against African Americans on his book bag and had recently talked of buying firearms.

Sept. 24, 2017: A YouTube user named “nikolas cruz” posts a comment stating he wants to become a “professional school shooter.” The comment is reported to the FBI in Mississippi, which fails to make the connection to Cruz in South Florida.

Nov. 1, 2017: Katherine Blaine, Lynda Cruz’s cousin, calls BSO to report that Nikolas Cruz had weapons and asks that police recover them. A “close family friend” agrees to take the firearms, according to BSO.

Nov. 29, 2017: The Palm Beach County family that took in Cruz after the death of his mother calls the Palm Beach Sheriff’s Office to report a fight between him and their son, 22. A member of the family says Cruz had threatened to “get his gun and come back” and that he has “put the gun to others’ heads in the past.” The family does not want him arrested once he calms down.

Nov. 30, 2017: A caller from Massachusetts calls BSO to report that Cruz is collecting guns and knives and could be a “school shooter in the making.” A BSO deputy advises the caller to contact the Palm Beach sheriff.

Jan. 5, 2018: A caller to the FBI’s tip line reports that Cruz has “a desire to kill people” and could potentially conduct a school shooting. The information is never passed on to the FBI’s office in Miami.

Feb. 14, 2018: Nikolas Cruz attacks Stoneman Douglas High. Peterson, the school’s resource officer, draws his gun outside the building where Cruz is shooting students and staff. He does not enter.

Note: this timeline does not include the 39 times Broward County cop responded to complaints about Mr. Cruz’s behavior.

During the CNN gun control “Town Hall,” Sheriff Israel told NRA spokesperson Dana Loesch, “I understand you’re standing up for the NRA and I understand that’s what you’re supposed to do. But you just told this group of people that you are standing up for them. You’re not standing up for them until you say, ‘I want less weapons.’” The crowd cheered.

Given the importance of armed defenders in our schools, what we now know about Sheriff Israel’s department and the civility of CNN’s kangaroo court, the crowd should have booed. Before Sheriff Israel started speaking.

cacman Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Clearly it was the gun's fault!
dstieger Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
clearly....and the fault of the armed resource officer
Sarcasm


what a cf.....the unemployment rate should see a spike...whole lotta officials (at all levels) should be looking for new jobs
victor809 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I agree this "resource officer" dropped the ball.
But I'm not sure his job was to intervene during a school shooting. I think anthony has some knowledge of what a resource officer is expected to do at a school, but I was under the impression they are more to make sure kids aren't dealing drugs or little things like that.

Would it have been great if he chose that moment to be a hero? yeah... that would have totally been his moment.

But I don't really see a problem with this timeline.
dstieger Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
victor809 wrote:

But I don't really see a problem with this timeline.


not one?
cacman Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
victor809 wrote:
I agree this "resource officer" dropped the ball.
But I'm not sure his job was to intervene during a school shooting. I think anthony has some knowledge of what a resource officer is expected to do at a school, but I was under the impression they are more to make sure kids aren't dealing drugs or little things like that.

Would it have been great if he chose that moment to be a hero? yeah... that would have totally been his moment.

But I don't really see a problem with this timeline.

Maybe not in his job description, but possibly a moral responsibility to help his fellow man? Obviously he is not a Veteran.

The resource officer should be at least demoted to sitting behind a desk as obviously that's all he is good for.
victor809 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
cacman wrote:
Maybe not in his job description, but possibly a moral responsibility to help his fellow man? Obviously he is not a Veteran.

The resource officer should be at least demoted to sitting behind a desk as obviously that's all he is good for.


I don't really disagree there. It was his one opportunity to really be a hero, and he chose not to take it. A job where there may be gun fire is possibly not the best fit for him.
victor809 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
dstieger wrote:
not one?


where do you see a problem?
dstieger Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
victor809 wrote:

But I'm not sure his job was to intervene during a school shooting.



"Broward Schools Superintendent has lambasted Peterson over his reaction to the shooting. “I’m in shock and I’m outraged to no end that he could have made a difference in all this,” Runcie said Thursday. “It’s really disturbing that we had a law enforcement individual there specifically for this reason, and he did not engage,” he said."
teedubbya Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I feel bad for him.
dstieger Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
The superintendent?
teedubbya Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
no the resource officer. he had to see all the carnage, right or wrong he made decisions he has to live with, he probably feels horrible and there will be a scapegoat pig pile on him nationally. He should be on suicide watch. Poor man. Prayers for him.
dstieger Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I sorta got the "he called it in and secured the perimeter.....blah blah blah" ...but I've dismissed it until/unless I get more 'mitigating' info -- as it is now, I consider him a coward who might well have saved some lives if he'd done his job...or even just done what's right
teedubbya Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
dstieger wrote:
I sorta got the "he called it in and secured the perimeter.....blah blah blah" ...but I've dismissed it until/unless I get more 'mitigating' info -- as it is now, I consider him a coward who might well have saved some lives if he'd done his job...or even just done what's right



I agree. I just don't know if I would be a coward or brave, dead or alive. I know I'd need new undies.

I see him as a coward too. that doesn't preclude me from feeling sorry for him. Nobody deserves this and life can sure change on a dime. Just ask the families of the deceased, those that are wounded that haven't been spoken of much, the survivors with their guilt, and yes this poor dude.

prayers for all.


Unrelated...have you see three billboards?
dstieger Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
nope...that the movie with the Fargo actress?
frankj1 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
dstieger wrote:
nope...that the movie with the Fargo actress?

yeah, with her.

high on my list but probably not gonna see it for a while.
teedubbya Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
dstieger wrote:
nope...that the movie with the Fargo actress?



Yes. interesting movie. i found my self settling in on liking certain characters and disliking others, then becoming not so sure, then changing which ones I liked, then not liking any of them, then liking most of them. Not in that order so as not to give away anything. I felt sorry for folks I shouldn't feel sorry for and at points didn't feel sorry for folks I should. Crazy good, albiet very different movie. Makes you think.

Frank.... wait awhile.
dstieger Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
i'll put it on the list....probably wait for netflix, tho


She might be the best actress of our time, but she'll always be Marge Gunderson to me...there's a short list of actors that are so perfect...they ruin it for all future roles for me
frankj1 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
teedubbya wrote:
Yes. interesting movie. i found my self settling in on liking certain characters and disliking others, then becoming not so sure, then changing which ones I liked, then not liking any of them, then liking most of them. Not in that order so as not to give away anything. I felt sorry for folks I shouldn't feel sorry for and at points didn't feel sorry for folks I should. Crazy good, albiet very different movie. Makes you think.

Frank.... wait awhile.

OKEY DOKEY
Gene363 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,815
victor809 wrote:
I agree this "resource officer" dropped the ball.
But I'm not sure his job was to intervene during a school shooting. I think anthony has some knowledge of what a resource officer is expected to do at a school, but I was under the impression they are more to make sure kids aren't dealing drugs or little things like that.

Would it have been great if he chose that moment to be a hero? yeah... that would have totally been his moment.

But I don't really see a problem with this timeline.


In a round about way you agree with a Trump comment re arming some teachers, because they know and love their students. Contrast the three teachers (unarmed) that were killed protecting students vs the armed Sheriff Deputy that pissed down his leg while those kids were being killed.
paulkeck Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
The Chief of Police put the officer on blast as well
victor809 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Gene363 wrote:
In a round about way you agree with a Trump comment re arming some teachers, because they know and love their students. Contrast the three teachers (unarmed) that were killed protecting students vs the armed Sheriff Deputy that pissed down his leg while those kids were being killed.


Not really.
I don't necessarily think arming teachers is a good idea. I think that builds in an additional job responsibility which they simply aren't currently paid enough for. (not currently paid enough for their existing responsibilities). Nor do I really think that the teachers who are gung ho about being armed would be the ones I would think would have proper fire control under an active shooter situation. You will likely not have to wait long until a news report identifies a teacher shot by police reacting, or a teacher shooting an unarmed student during an incident.

But... hell... that'd make fun news. go ahead and arm them. I think it's dumb, but I'm willing to see how that plays out. should be amusing.
DrafterX Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
It will be a deterrent... Somebody will prolly test it tho... It's not going to stop somebody dead set on killing kids tho... And there are plenty of other places people gather... Mellow
Speyside Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
So Gene, I understand the entire article, but what could have been done legally. Up to the point of the shooting he had committed no crime. Obviously someone should have made the decision to involuntary commit him. But what could have the FBI or local LEO'S have done legally? I would put this on whoever evaluated him. But perhaps their evaluation at the time was correct.
Gene363 Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,815
Speyside wrote:
So Gene, I understand the entire article, but what could have been done legally. Up to the point of the shooting he had committed no crime. Obviously someone should have made the decision to involuntary commit him. But what could have the FBI or local LEO'S have done legally? I would put this on whoever evaluated him. But perhaps their evaluation at the time was correct.


Good question, I'm not a legal authority so I cannot say with authority. I can say they might have at least visited the shooter and confronted him, warned the school and perhaps assign an officer with some intentional fortitude to school. Looking forward it what can be done is something that legislature may be able too address as opposed to more gun control, i.e., something that would be effective.
teedubbya Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
One group loves kids more than another in this context is laughable and dumb. We had a dude do nothing and don’t know why. It was extrapolated to he must love kids less than teachers to fit a narrative not out of real logic.

I’ve had teachers that hate kids and janitors that love them. My guess is abrig would sell his soul to protect those kids. It’s just a dumb dumb thing the president said. He should retract it if anyone is to ever take him seriously.

A highly trained lawman failed. Lesser trained teachers will succeed or fail. Hard to know if at a greater or lessor rate.

The majority of these freaks kill themselves or expect death by cop. I don’t see them deferred by professor fluffkin and his 9mm.

And when the swat team arrives and 20-40 percent of the teachers have guns do the teachers shoot at the guy in the dark outfit with a long gun or do the guys in the dark suits shoot the adult with the gun? Who sorts it out?

If I’m swat, anyone with a gun is a target. Asking them to decipher on the fly is a bit much. They may be able to but God bless them. A trained officer failed, but we expect others to do a much heavier lift.
Gene363 Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,815
victor809 wrote:
Not really.
I don't necessarily think arming teachers is a good idea. I think that builds in an additional job responsibility which they simply aren't currently paid enough for. (not currently paid enough for their existing responsibilities). Nor do I really think that the teachers who are gung ho about being armed would be the ones I would think would have proper fire control under an active shooter situation. You will likely not have to wait long until a news report identifies a teacher shot by police reacting, or a teacher shooting an unarmed student during an incident.

But... hell... that'd make fun news. go ahead and arm them. I think it's dumb, but I'm willing to see how that plays out. should be amusing.


Not every teacher would be a candidate for carry and some method of identification known to the police and the teachers would be necessary. Like concealed carry, let criminals guess.
teedubbya Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Gene363 wrote:
Not every teacher would be a candidate for carry and some method of identification known to the police and the teachers would be necessary. Like concealed carry, let criminals guess.



Would you use a love meter to determine who? LOL
HuckFinn Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
DrafterX wrote:
It will be a deterrent... Somebody will prolly test it tho... It's not going to stop somebody dead set on killing kids tho... And there are plenty of other places people gather... Mellow

Would stop me.
From going to school, period.
victor809 Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Hehehe....

HuckFinn Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
Wonder if we could call in the National Guard?
DrafterX Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
What about football games..?? How many people could a shooter take out there from a rooftop or Eve on da ground with a bolt action rifle..?? The weapon doesn't matter.. if someone wants to kill they will... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I'm not even sure the school part is or should be the focus.
teedubbya Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
What about football games..?? How many people could a shooter take out there from a rooftop or Eve on da ground with a bolt action rifle..?? The weapon doesn't matter.. if someone wants to kill they will... Mellow


A bolt action? Less than the dude in vegas. Way less....wrong tool for the wrong job. Onsies twosies from a distance maybe but not large numbers. You need a different tool. I'm just trying to be honest. I may buy an AR before they get banned.
paulkeck Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
teedubbya wrote:
A bolt action? Less than the dude in vegas. Way less.... and I'm just trying to be honest. I may buy an AR before they get banned.

But that's ok because it would only be 14 or so....like in 66 at UTA
teedubbya Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
paulkeck wrote:
But that's ok because it would only be 14 or so....like in 66 at UTA



Im not saying ok or not ok. I just firmly believe in the right tool for the right job (I added that as you were probably posting). I'm looking at it from a non value position. If your goal is large numbers its the wrong tool.

If the dude in Texas had a better tool he'd have likely done better at his job. (purposely not taking judgement...but what an evil eff) He was also facing clueless police responses at the time.
DrafterX Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
And even then the dude broke existing laws.. Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
And even then the dude broke existing laws.. Mellow


like killing people. we may as well not have that law. since it is law only criminals get to kill people. if someone wants to they will. if we just enforced that one better we wouldn't need others. lets just enforce that one better. its already on the books.
paulkeck Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2013
Posts: 2,686
I know what the gun banners are gonna say "not the same thing" but last I checked over 2000 people lost their lives with box cutters
teedubbya Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
my guess is there are more box cutters out there than guns. How many gun deaths were there in that time frame. What is the purpose of design of a box cutter.

I am pro guns. I like them. But silly is silly.
HuckFinn Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
DrafterX wrote:
And even then the dude broke existing laws.. Mellow

Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws.
Plato.
DrafterX Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
We could enact the 2 kill law... Everybody gets to kill peoples in their lifetime.. if you kill 3 then you have to go to jail.. just think how nice everyone will be to each other... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
cancer kills more people than measles. we need to stop focusing on preventing and treating measles.
teedubbya Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
We could enact the 2 kill law... Everybody gets to kill peoples in their lifetime.. if you kill 3 then you have to go to jail.. just think how nice everyone will be to each other... Mellow



I forget where I heard that thought before. It could work.
HuckFinn Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
teedubbya wrote:
cancer kills more people than measles. we need to stop focusing on preventing and treating measles.

There is no I in measles.
DrafterX Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
I've mentioned the rule before.. but it didn't take off.. Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
im sorry
delta1 Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,788
paulkeck wrote:
I know what the gun banners are gonna say "not the same thing" but last I checked over 2000 people lost their lives with box cutters




I'm not a fully engaged gun-banner...but if I was in a place where someone was killing people...I'd like my chances of fighting back much better if the dude was armed with a box cutter, a golf club, a bat, a knife, a chain saw, a car, a revolver or semi-auto low cap mag pistol, a bolt/lever action rifle, a shotgun... better than staring down the barrel of a rifle spitting out 20 - 30 or more bullets at a time
HuckFinn Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
DrafterX wrote:
I've mentioned the rule before.. but it didn't take off.. Mellow

Probably because you scared Hillary
delta1 Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,788
HuckFinn wrote:
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws.
Plato.


what if we can figure out ways to make it harder to find a way around the laws?
Users browsing this topic
Guest
5 Pages12345>