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Last post 19 years ago by mrtelcom. 68 replies replies.
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That Juiced up piece of crap wins another MVP
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Double D Offline
#51 Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2004, 6:44 AM EST
Joined: 08-20-2003
Posts: 2,819
If anybody doesn't believe steroids can have an impact on a players ability to hit, just take a look at Sammy & Giambi this season, vs. their performances since 1998.

Sure, they were both injured, but their injuries were rather peculiar, and are not uncommon when someone cycles off the juice. Plus, their physical appearances changed dramatically this year (much less muscle mass).

Just MHO.

DD


eleltea Offline
#52 Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2004, 6:46 AM EST
Joined: 03-03-2002
Posts: 4,562
My roids have not helped my performance this year worth a $#!+
erkwgz Offline
#53 Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2004, 6:46 AM EST
Joined: 10-07-2004
Posts: 10,840
Also, Albert Pujols even with his defensive liabilities, is the player I would want to build a team around. Man can he hit! Sorry about the thread jack. Later, Erik
lofty1 Offline
#54 Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2004, 7:01 AM EST
Joined: 06-07-2004
Posts: 4,670
Beat,
I have to disagree with your statement that being on steroids doesn't help you hit the ball. I think that's terribly inaccurate. You're ability to swing and control the bat are enhanced considerably by increased strength. Try to hit a fast-moving ball with a really heavy bat. It's pretty damn hard. You don't have the time to adjust to the pitch. You have to start your swing before the ball is even delivered. Now, try to use a really light bat to hit a ball going the same speed. You'll give yourself much more time to react to the pitch. Also, being able to swing the bat faster will increase your odds of placing ball in a fan's glove. There's no question that being stronger helps to hit the ball. Take any average hitter and increase his overall strength, and I think you'll see a notable difference.

Not everyone that is juicing is putting up his numbers, but not everyone is juicing. Some folks weren't that great to begin with. Bonds was pretty damn good. Now, he's just plain dangerous in the box. You cannot ignore the effects of steroids on his offensive play. To do so is simply denial.
BeatDragon Offline
#55 Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2004, 7:31 AM EST
Joined: 02-28-2003
Posts: 4,754
Well, from my experience as a coach and hitting instructor, being stronger does NOT help you actually HIT the ball. It will however have an effect AFTER it is hit.

Case in point. I was a 5'10" bone rack in my younger days. Maybe 140 pounds. On one of the semi-pro teams I played on there was a guy that was a 6'1" muscle bound weightlifting nut . Yet I was a better hitter with more consistant power. It used to drive him nuts that the skinny kid could out hit him. Yes, he could hit the ball farther than I could, but I did it more often. I was second on that team with a .319 avg and hit 7 hrs in 20 games. He hit about .220 with a couple of jacks. Bigger, faster, stronger, not a better hitter. I had a better swing and a better approach. Your theory would suggest that because he was bigger and stronger that he would be a better hitter. It just isnt true. Strength has little to do with placing the bat on the ball.

The point is that if BB wasnt doing roids, his hitting mechanics and his approach are such that he would still be just as dangerous a hitter.
lofty1 Offline
#56 Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2004, 7:48 AM EST
Joined: 06-07-2004
Posts: 4,670
i think you're missing my point. i'm not saying that a bigger, stronger person will necessarily hit better than the the smaller, weaker person. as i said before, some people just aren't that good to begin with. i'm saying that increasing a hitter's strength increases his ability to hit the ball. since you have experience in hitting fast pitches, you understand the advantage being gained by waiting a fraction of a second longer before starting your swing and still getting the bat out in time for the pitch. you get to see more of the pitch before committing to the swing. that helps enormously, and that is the advantage you gain by being stronger. do you see what i'm saying now?
BuckyB93 Offline
#57 Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2004, 8:08 AM EST
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,251
"The point is that if BB wasn't doing roids, his hitting mechanics and his approach are such that he would still be just as dangerous a hitter."

No argument there. You don't have to look any further than Seattle's Ichiro (31 yrs old, 5'9", 173 lbs). This year he batted .372 and broke a MLB record with 262 hits in one season. He doesn't have the slugging % that BB has but put him on a roids program for 5 years and what would happen? I'd bet my house that his slugging % goes up.

I think the fundamental question here is, should someone who is HIGHLY suspected of breaking MLB's rules on illegal substances year after year be considered a MVP and a Hall of Fame player?
BeatDragon Offline
#58 Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2004, 8:42 AM EST
Joined: 02-28-2003
Posts: 4,754
Yes, I getcha lofty
mrtelcom Offline
#59 Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2004, 8:51 AM EST
Joined: 03-25-2004
Posts: 2,255
Another thought is the roids help him have the power/stamina to practice reps too, which would make him a better hitter.
lofty1 Offline
#60 Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2004, 9:00 AM EST
Joined: 06-07-2004
Posts: 4,670
understand that i really don't have very strong feelings about bonds. there's no question that he's a good player, w/ or w/o 'roids. i just think too many people try to defend him by saying that the 'roids don't make him what he is. maybe they don't, but i think they do. he's still very talented. w/o them, he'd be, and he was, a very good player. w/ them he's a pitcher's nightmare.

think about this:
if the 'roids didn't help, why would he take them?
i think the answer is clear.
MACS Offline
#61 Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2004, 11:45 AM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,943
"Then why couldnt the other juiced players produce as well as ol BB????"

So you admit that you believe (at least subconsciously) that he is a juicer?? Yes?

The "other guys" you mentioned... their names are Mark Mcgwire and Sammy Sosa. And they DID hit as many. 71 and 66 I believe.

Also, you asked if we ever tried to hit a baseball before. My answer to that is YES, I have in HS. I, however, was terrible at it, until I figured out I needed glasses. :-)

I concede to you that hitting a baseball IS the hardest thing in sports to do. I said that already, but you seem to be refusing to admit that juicing has helped Barry in any way. It has.
BeatDragon Offline
#62 Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2004, 1:24 PM EST
Joined: 02-28-2003
Posts: 4,754
Yeah MAC, if he's juiced it makes him stronger. My point is that if there are steriods present, they're not the reason he puts up the numbers he does. He would anyway. Prolly wouldnt hit as many moon shots. And they dont help him as much as people believe. The jury is still out however on weather he did, I know the circumstances way heavily in favor that he did, and the frequency. Lets revisit this when the facts are presented as to how often or if.
mrtelcom Offline
#63 Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2004, 2:07 PM EST
Joined: 03-25-2004
Posts: 2,255
Also, don't rule out that his motivation for juicing is the power, not the average. Don't forget he is chasing the Hammer. I am sure that there is nothing more important to him that owning that record.
CWFoster Offline
#64 Posted: Tue, Nov 16 2004, 11:41 PM EST
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
*************Threadjack ON***************

Am I the only one who's thinking how much more refreshing this is than endless disputes over politics??

************Threadjack OFF (PLAY BALL!)******
nfldraftman Offline
#65 Posted: Wed, Nov 17 2004, 4:08 AM EST
Joined: 01-28-2004
Posts: 642
CW....no

I didn't read all the posts, but JonR talked about his HR totals jacking up at 73 and then going back down. I think he's on the sauce, but the fact that his HR totals have dropped is a direct result of the number of walks he is receiving. Honestly, if teams pitched to him like they pitched other players he would have 60+ every year. Bonds is a great player, I don't for a second think that he is the only player, pitcher or hitter in baseball that is juicing up, but there is no hitter even close to as feared as Bonds is in the league.
SteveS Offline
#66 Posted: Wed, Nov 17 2004, 6:23 AM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
I'd like to see the Giants put more support behind BB in the lineup so he'd draw fewer intentional walks ...

Oh, yeah ... I know ... Beat and some of the other BB apologists are saying "oh, right ... I'd like to see that too ... can you imagine what he'd do if he got to hit the ball even more often?" ...

While I can ONLY imagine it right now, I don't think Beat and other Barry Believers would be as happy as they think they'd be ... I'm willing to make a money bet that IF he got more chances to hit, his numbers would not only revert quickly to what we saw prior to 2002, they'd drop like a rock in water ... before '02, he was very good, but not jaw-droppingly awe-inspiring ... and before the WS that year, when the Angels reacted to his 73 HRs and began the fad of walking him under almost any conditions, he was getting plenty of chances to swing the bat ...

I think that particularly because he is past 40 y.o. he's being helped by NOT having to swing the bat too often ... he's able to focus his very real skills on a relatively small number of pitches ... IF he were to have more chances, I think he'd become less discerning swing more freely, hit more grounders (and with his lack of hustle, ANYthing on the ground could be an out), hit more pop-ups, more fly-outs, and strike out more ... in short, he'd be the player he was before, only older and slower and even more prone to not exhibit ANY hustle whatever ...
cexshun Offline
#67 Posted: Sat, Dec 4 2004, 7:40 PM EST
Joined: 09-23-2004
Posts: 1,289
^
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Charlie Offline
#68 Posted: Sun, Dec 5 2004, 2:00 PM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Pass the steriods pleasw!!!!!

Charlie
mrtelcom Offline
#69 Posted: Sun, Dec 5 2004, 2:35 PM EST
Joined: 03-25-2004
Posts: 2,255
Good article in the AJC today with an interview of The Hammer. He agrees that juice won't help you hit the ball, but it definitily will help a 40 year old bounce back from a days activities to make him better suited to be ready the next day.
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