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I am pro choice as long as there is CERTAINTY that
the zygote/embryo/whatever does not yet have a human soul.

I am also pro death penalty given same standard of certainty of guilt.

Even if they raped and mutilated your wife, daughter, mother....etc.

If it would serve as a deterrent from it happening even ONE TIME to someone else, and rest assured it will, I'm 150% for it.

^Once again, you take a sprinkling of truth and twist it into a tale of fantasy. The Old Testament (Jewish Scripture) states that if folks bring false witness against an innocent man, they are to suffer the punishment that the innocent would have suffered. So yes, if you where to falsely bring murder charges against someone, and where found out, you would suffer his fate. The rest of your scenario is pure fantasy.

If you knew anything about Scripture, you would know that God has entrusted government with the right to dispense justice. We, as individuals have no right to take life, except in self defense, but government does have the right and duty to do so, when it’s required to protect society and the innocent.

Personally, I don’t like the idea of Capital Punishment, and I wish it wasn’t ever required, but God is God, and I am not.

Now I can’t wait for the next one of your “the Bible says” tall tales.

^For someone who likes to infer lessons from Scripture, your ignorance is astounding.

Words of Christ:
"For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father." John 10: 17-18 ESV

Government did not take the life of Jesus, He gave it willingly. As the Creator, he could have wiped out the creatures that sought His death with but a word. But His death was God's redemptive plan from the beginning of time. God referred to this all the way back in Geneses, after the fall of Adam, and the prophets spoke of this throughout Scripture. But of course this is all lost on you, as you have no concept of what Scripture really teaches.

Oh, and the words of the Apostle Paul, which can be hard and difficult words, when we reflect on the many evil rulers through history, but inspired Scripture none the less:
“Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer”. Romans 13:1-5 ESV

At the time Paul wrote this, Christians where being imprisoned and even killed by the Jewish government under the authority of Rome. Paul was later martyred by the Roman government, but he accepted this as God’s plan for his life. Paul wrote from a Roman prison “For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain”. Philippians 1:2 ESV

Scripture tells us that even Pharaoh, who enslaved and killed God’s chosen people during the time of Moses was raised up for God’s purpose.

If you really want, I can start quoting dozens of passages where God demanded that life be forfeited for various infractions. Proof that the powers that be have the right to take life under certain circumstances as God‘s agent of justice, but since your mind is already made up, it would just be a further waste of my time.

Dude, you just don't get where I'm coming from. My words go right over your head.

No Fish, they are clearly going right over yours too. When I say that the scriptures were written by a governor to control the masses, how does it make sense to disagree with me by quoting more scripture? That's just plain silly.

and your point being what? that they weren't? are you seriously going to go that route?

by Christian do you mean that I love The Christ, believe in His teachings, and want to follow in His footsteps, or do you mean that I'm a blind follower of some silly text written by government officials to control the population? I don't really recall ever saying either. Why?

Exactly dude. That's exactly how I feel about any "book" that is USED as an excuse to murder another man. Quoting a bunch of BS Old Testament crap to me about justifying the death penalty is foolish and ignorant. I can quote scripture from the OT that tells me it's cool to rape and murder the wives and daughters of my enemies, or to eradicate (genocide) people's with dark colored skin too. Does that make it right?

The Christian Bible is a book of rules written by a Governor trying to control the population. Jesus Himself said to NOT follow that garbage, but instead listen to HIM. Nobody gets to God but thru HIM, yet you still wanna quote that Governors book. The same folks that hung him from a cross to shut him up.

I don't play the scripture game. Sorry.

Fish, think about what you just said. What have you SHOWN me that I am not seeing. And what have I SHOWN you that you are not seeing. Let's start there and regroup, eh? My apologies if I come across crass. I mean it.

Ya know James, I think I would pass out from shock if I ever saw you respond with a "ya know what, let me rethink that" or "hmmm, that's a good point, maybe I was wrong."


But for somebody who I actually believe is an intellegent individual, you are unquestionably the most closed minded individual I've ever conversed with. I'm 54 years old and have met people from all over the world, and have yet to meet a person like you that not will not LISTEN to anyone. You believe what you believe and that's the end of the conversation with you.

And while it's admirable that you stand firm in your convictions, say what you mean and mean what you say, ......to never agree, or God Forbid CONCEED a point to anyone is not anything an open-minded person would do. INSTEAD OF DISCUSSING SOMETHING YOU SIMPLY POST A CONTRADICTION AS TO WHY THEY ARE WRONG!


Even though you spend a lot of time here just trying to be contrary and having fun with it, even enticing people into "discussions", sometimes you've got to admit that, hey maybe I'm not right...maybe I should change my opinion!



I'll be interested to see if you can respond to my post without ripping a single or multiple parts of it.

[quote=fishinguitarman]Ya know James, I think I would pass out from shock if I ever saw you respond with a "ya know what, let me rethink that" or "hmmm, that's a good point, maybe I was wrong."


But for somebody who I actually believes he is an intellegent individual, you are unquestionably the most closed minded individual I've ever conversed with. I'm 54 years old and have met people from all over the world, and have yet to meet a person like you that not will not LISTEN to anyone. You believe what you believe and that's the end of the conversation with you.

And while it's admirable that you stand firm in your convictions, say what you mean and mean what you say, ......to never agree, or God Forbid CONCEED a point to anyone is not anything an open-minded person would do. INSTEAD OF DISCUSSING SOMETHING YOU SIMPLY POST A CONTRADICTION AS TO WHY THEY ARE WRONG!


Even though you spend a lot of time here just trying to be contrary and having fun with it, even enticing people into "discussions", sometimes you've got to admit that, hey maybe I'm not right...maybe I should change my opinion!

I call Bullsh%T...

you're 74

Me too.