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Last post 12 years ago by borndead1. 190 replies replies.
Poll Question : How to Solve the National Debt Problem
Choice Votes Statistics
Cut government spending 12 54 %
Raise taxes 2 9 %
Raise the debt ceiling and borrow more 1 4 %
All of the above 7 31 %
Total 22 100%

4 Pages<1234
How to Solve the National Debt Problem
OldSchool Offline
#151 Posted:
Joined: 07-21-2005
Posts: 1,542
You've ruptured his brain. He sounds like Alan Colmbs nowd'oh!
Stinkdyr Offline
#152 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
Duhmericans are gonna LOVE austerity !!!!!


Herfing
teedubbya Offline
#153 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
OldSchool wrote:
You've ruptured his brain. He sounds like Alan Colmbs nowd'oh!


Let me guess... you actually LIKE Hannity and think he speaks the truth?
OldSchool Offline
#154 Posted:
Joined: 07-21-2005
Posts: 1,542
teedubbya wrote:
Let me guess... you actually LIKE Hannity and think he speaks the truth?


He has nice hair!
Brewha Offline
#155 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
HockeyDad wrote:
Brewha,

So all you have is the rhetoric of goring the wealthy but no way to actually do it?



This is a good example of why I say the USA is already bankrupt.


OK – back to my first suggestion; Stop wasting money on endless wars.
Don’t change thing one with the tax code. Just stop blowing trillions on these never ending police actions.

You agree with that HD?
HockeyDad Offline
#156 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
Hannity doesn't matter unless he can give us one trillion US dollars per year.
HockeyDad Offline
#157 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
Brewha wrote:
OK – back to my first suggestion; Stop wasting money on endless wars.
Don’t change thing one with the tax code. Just stop blowing trillions on these never ending police actions.

You agree with that HD?




I absolutely agree with it. The problem is our decade of war has cost between 2.3 and 2.7 trillion USD that are now part of our 14.5 trillion USD national debt.

When you stop the war you have to stop the war machine. Shrink the military, cut weapons programs, eliminate military equipment, reduce veterans benefits, lay off soldiers, etc. Otherwise the only difference with being in Iraq versus Topeka is combat pay, wear & tear, and logistics.

If we fired every single member of the US military and Dept of Defense and sold off all equipment such that the entire military budget was eliminated, the Federal budget still would not be balanced.

(...and then they would all draw unemployment!)



ZRX1200 Offline
#158 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
Always half full with LHD!
teedubbya Offline
#159 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Hannity does matter. HD is wrong.
ZRX1200 Offline
#160 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
WALL BANGER OUTRAGE!
teedubbya Offline
#161 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Harvey?
ZRX1200 Offline
#162 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
Hannity the Wall Banger.
HockeyDad Offline
#163 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
We should raise Brewha's taxes. He does not pay his fair share.
teedubbya Offline
#164 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
HD - we should start a fundraiser that if we raise enough contributions towards the deficit (1 T?) We will have a live event where Hannity gets tossed into an industrial meat grinder. Then he will be relevant!
teedubbya Offline
#165 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
We could also go with colmbs, gore etc. it matters not. there is plenty of hate out there and a lot of money backing it.
teedubbya Offline
#166 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I've always thought I should find a way to exploit and profit from fear.... like insurance etc. but as I grow older I'm thinking hate may be the more solid choice.
HockeyDad Offline
#167 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
ZRX1200 wrote:
Always half full with LHD!



I'm just pointing it out that it isn't that simple to just say "end the police actions". It is true that the USA has been in perpetual undeclared war for a very long time. You would have to go back to the 1980s to even find a little peace break. These undeclared wars have added a great amount to our budget deficits and overall debt but are not even close to being the sole offender for overspending.

Anyone serious about cutting government spending will need to start with the military and then move on to Social Security. When you're trying to find a trillion dollars by whacking a couple of 5 billion dollar subsidies, you're going to be at it for a long time.

The Democrats are not even slightly serious about cutting spending. Their current proposal is more tax, borrow & spend.

The Republicans are only marginally serious about cutting spending because they've left the military spending out of the conversation. There proposal is still basically borrow & spend but they can't admit it.
teedubbya Offline
#168 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
meat grinder
ZRX1200 Offline
#169 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
Maybe I an borrow money to spend on a meat grinder.......

Teedubya, box split?
teedubbya Offline
#170 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
ZRX1200 wrote:
Maybe I an borrow money to spend on a meat grinder.......

Teedubya, box split?


deal
tailgater Offline
#171 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:
OK – back to my first suggestion; Stop wasting money on endless wars.
Don’t change thing one with the tax code. Just stop blowing trillions on these never ending police actions.

You agree with that HD?


Finally something constructive.

Law of averages, probably, but still. It does suggest that our patience is at least partially rewarded.

teedubbya Offline
#172 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I got a hunnert towards throwing Tom Brady in the grinder
tailgater Offline
#173 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:
The speed with which you break orbit on a tangent trajectory would give the space shuttle pause. “back off the competition”? Seems you are propelled by the thrust of you own talking points more than any fuel I might be providing. I pointed to a fundamental need to balance, nothing more.

I know that conservatives don’t like level playing fields, witness the KKK, but rationalizing injustice as “life is unfair” – is just wrong. Would you standby for, or aid a lack of fairness? Have you no moral compass?

Is that a brown shirt you’re wearing?


Sorry if I lost you on a tangent.
I must have refused to answer a simple question.

No, .....
Wait.

That was you.





And just for the record, the KKK didn't use the "life is unfair" mantra. They used hate.
And it's more than sad that you can't see the difference.
Brewha Offline
#174 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
tailgater wrote:
Finally something constructive.

Law of averages, probably, but still. It does suggest that our patience is at least partially rewarded.



And you, offering nothing except undue criticism. Obviously a Repuli-can’t
Brewha Offline
#175 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
tailgater wrote:
Sorry if I lost you on a tangent.
I must have refused to answer a simple question.

No, .....
Wait.

That was you.

And just for the record, the KKK didn't use the "life is unfair" mantra. They used hate.
And it's more than sad that you can't see the difference.


I did answer your questions, but apparently not simply enough. It is a hallmark of style thinking is it not, when one demands simple answers to complex questions.
Of course, to some the world is a simple place, painted in black and white with no shades of gray; simple and without ambiguity.



As for the sadness you feel, I can offer you this;

“Just to register emotion, jealousy - devotion,
And really feel the part.
I could stay young and chipper,
and I'd lock it with a zipper,
If I only had a heart.”

No need to thank me – it is complimentary.
ZRX1200 Offline
#176 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
Yes play coy.....
HockeyDad Offline
#177 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
The Greek Austerity Plan

(This was passed just to get more foreign loans and to get existing debt due date extensions)



TAXES

* Taxes will increase by 2.32bn euros this year, with additional taxes of 3.38bn euros in 2012, 152m euros in 2013 and 699m euros in 2014.
* A solidarity levy of between 1% and 5% of income will be levied on households to raise 1.38bn euros.
* The tax-free threshold for income tax will be lowered from 12,000 to 8,000 euros.
* There will be higher property taxes
* VAT rates are to rise: the 19% rate will increase to 23%, 11% becomes 13%, and 5.5% will increase to 6.5%.
* The VAT rate for restaurants and bars will rise to 23% from 13%.
* Luxury levies will be introduced on yachts, pools and cars.
* Some tax exemptions will be scrapped
* Excise taxes on fuel, cigarettes and alcohol will rise by one third.
* Special levies on profitable firms, high-value properties and people with high incomes will be introduced.

PUBLIC SECTOR CUTS

* The public sector wage bill will be cut by 770m euros in 2011, 600m euros in 2012, 448m euros in 2013, 300m euros in 2014 and 71m euros in 2015.
* Nominal public sector wages will be cut by 15%.
* Wages of employees of state-owned enterprises will be cut by 30% and there will be a cap on wages and bonuses.
* All temporary contracts for public sector workers will be terminated.
* Only one in 10 civil servants retiring this year will be replaced and only one in 5 in coming years.

SPENDING CUTS

* Defence spending will be cut by 200m euros in 2012, and by 333m euros each year from 2013 to 2015.
* Health spending will be cut by 310m euros this year and a further 1.81bn euros in 2012-2015, mainly by lowering regulated prices for drugs.
* Public investment will be cut by 850m euros this year.
* Subsidies for local government will be reduced.
* Education spending will be cut by closing or merging 1,976 schools.

CUTTING BENEFITS

* Social security will be cut by 1.09bn euros this year, 1.28bn euros in 2012, 1.03bn euros in 2013, 1.01bn euros in 2014 and 700m euros in 2015.
* There will be more means-testing and some benefits will be cut.
* The government hopes to collect more social security contributions by cracking down on evasion and undeclared work.
* The statutory retirement age will be raised to 65, 40 years of work will be needed for a full pension and benefits will be linked more closely to lifetime contributions.

PRIVATISATION

* The government aims to raise 50bn euros from privatisations by 2015, including:
* Selling stakes this year in the betting monopoly OPAP, the lender Hellenic Postbank, port operators Piraeus Port and Thessaloniki Port as well as Thessaloniki Water.
* It has agreed to sell 10% of Hellenic Telecom to Deutsche Telekom for about 400m euros.
* Next year, the government plans to sell stakes in Athens Water, refiner Hellenic Petroleum, electricity utility PPC, lender ATEbank as well as ports, airports, motorway concessions, state land and mining rights.
* It plans further sales to raise 7bn euros in 2013, 13bn euros in 2014 and 15bn euros in 2015.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#178 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
HockeyDad wrote:
The Greek Austerity Plan

(This was passed just to get more foreign loans and to get existing debt due date extensions)



TAXES

* Taxes will increase by 2.32bn euros this year, with additional taxes of 3.38bn euros in 2012, 152m euros in 2013 and 699m euros in 2014.
* A solidarity levy of between 1% and 5% of income will be levied on households to raise 1.38bn euros.
* The tax-free threshold for income tax will be lowered from 12,000 to 8,000 euros.
* There will be higher property taxes
* VAT rates are to rise: the 19% rate will increase to 23%, 11% becomes 13%, and 5.5% will increase to 6.5%.
* The VAT rate for restaurants and bars will rise to 23% from 13%.
* Luxury levies will be introduced on yachts, pools and cars.
* Some tax exemptions will be scrapped
* Excise taxes on fuel, cigarettes and alcohol will rise by one third.
* Special levies on profitable firms, high-value properties and people with high incomes will be introduced.

PUBLIC SECTOR CUTS

* The public sector wage bill will be cut by 770m euros in 2011, 600m euros in 2012, 448m euros in 2013, 300m euros in 2014 and 71m euros in 2015.
* Nominal public sector wages will be cut by 15%.
* Wages of employees of state-owned enterprises will be cut by 30% and there will be a cap on wages and bonuses.
* All temporary contracts for public sector workers will be terminated.
* Only one in 10 civil servants retiring this year will be replaced and only one in 5 in coming years.

SPENDING CUTS

* Defence spending will be cut by 200m euros in 2012, and by 333m euros each year from 2013 to 2015.
* Health spending will be cut by 310m euros this year and a further 1.81bn euros in 2012-2015, mainly by lowering regulated prices for drugs.
* Public investment will be cut by 850m euros this year.
* Subsidies for local government will be reduced.
* Education spending will be cut by closing or merging 1,976 schools.

CUTTING BENEFITS

* Social security will be cut by 1.09bn euros this year, 1.28bn euros in 2012, 1.03bn euros in 2013, 1.01bn euros in 2014 and 700m euros in 2015.
* There will be more means-testing and some benefits will be cut.
* The government hopes to collect more social security contributions by cracking down on evasion and undeclared work.
* The statutory retirement age will be raised to 65, 40 years of work will be needed for a full pension and benefits will be linked more closely to lifetime contributions.

PRIVATISATION

* The government aims to raise 50bn euros from privatisations by 2015, including:
* Selling stakes this year in the betting monopoly OPAP, the lender Hellenic Postbank, port operators Piraeus Port and Thessaloniki Port as well as Thessaloniki Water.
* It has agreed to sell 10% of Hellenic Telecom to Deutsche Telekom for about 400m euros.
* Next year, the government plans to sell stakes in Athens Water, refiner Hellenic Petroleum, electricity utility PPC, lender ATEbank as well as ports, airports, motorway concessions, state land and mining rights.
* It plans further sales to raise 7bn euros in 2013, 13bn euros in 2014 and 15bn euros in 2015.






GREECE FIRE SALE!!!!




America is right behind!!!




It just doesn't want to dance to the tune yet!
tailgater Offline
#179 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:



As for the sadness you feel, I can offer you this;

“Just to register emotion, jealousy - devotion,
And really feel the part.
I could stay young and chipper,
and I'd lock it with a zipper,
If I only had a heart.”

No need to thank me – it is complimentary.


Awesome!
Made me laugh. Thanks Brew.
Brewha Offline
#180 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
tailgater wrote:
Awesome!
Made me laugh. Thanks Brew.


Your welcome tailgater – I enjoyed the banter with you as well.
Brewha Offline
#181 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
ZRX1200 wrote:
Yes play coy.....


Coy? No.
Now, you be carp.
On porous – just for the halibut.
borndead1 Offline
#182 Posted:
Joined: 11-07-2006
Posts: 5,216
HockeyDad wrote:
The Greek Austerity Plan

(This was passed just to get more foreign loans and to get existing debt due date extensions)



TAXES

* Taxes will increase by 2.32bn euros this year, with additional taxes of 3.38bn euros in 2012, 152m euros in 2013 and 699m euros in 2014.
* A solidarity levy of between 1% and 5% of income will be levied on households to raise 1.38bn euros.
* The tax-free threshold for income tax will be lowered from 12,000 to 8,000 euros.
* There will be higher property taxes
* VAT rates are to rise: the 19% rate will increase to 23%, 11% becomes 13%, and 5.5% will increase to 6.5%.
* The VAT rate for restaurants and bars will rise to 23% from 13%.
* Luxury levies will be introduced on yachts, pools and cars.
* Some tax exemptions will be scrapped
* Excise taxes on fuel, cigarettes and alcohol will rise by one third.
* Special levies on profitable firms, high-value properties and people with high incomes will be introduced.

PUBLIC SECTOR CUTS

* The public sector wage bill will be cut by 770m euros in 2011, 600m euros in 2012, 448m euros in 2013, 300m euros in 2014 and 71m euros in 2015.
* Nominal public sector wages will be cut by 15%.
* Wages of employees of state-owned enterprises will be cut by 30% and there will be a cap on wages and bonuses.
* All temporary contracts for public sector workers will be terminated.
* Only one in 10 civil servants retiring this year will be replaced and only one in 5 in coming years.

SPENDING CUTS

* Defence spending will be cut by 200m euros in 2012, and by 333m euros each year from 2013 to 2015.
* Health spending will be cut by 310m euros this year and a further 1.81bn euros in 2012-2015, mainly by lowering regulated prices for drugs.
* Public investment will be cut by 850m euros this year.
* Subsidies for local government will be reduced.
* Education spending will be cut by closing or merging 1,976 schools.

CUTTING BENEFITS

* Social security will be cut by 1.09bn euros this year, 1.28bn euros in 2012, 1.03bn euros in 2013, 1.01bn euros in 2014 and 700m euros in 2015.
* There will be more means-testing and some benefits will be cut.
* The government hopes to collect more social security contributions by cracking down on evasion and undeclared work.
* The statutory retirement age will be raised to 65, 40 years of work will be needed for a full pension and benefits will be linked more closely to lifetime contributions.

PRIVATISATION

* The government aims to raise 50bn euros from privatisations by 2015, including:
* Selling stakes this year in the betting monopoly OPAP, the lender Hellenic Postbank, port operators Piraeus Port and Thessaloniki Port as well as Thessaloniki Water.
* It has agreed to sell 10% of Hellenic Telecom to Deutsche Telekom for about 400m euros.
* Next year, the government plans to sell stakes in Athens Water, refiner Hellenic Petroleum, electricity utility PPC, lender ATEbank as well as ports, airports, motorway concessions, state land and mining rights.
* It plans further sales to raise 7bn euros in 2013, 13bn euros in 2014 and 15bn euros in 2015.



Ooooooooh that's gonna hurt. 23% VAT tax? 30% pay cut for govt workers? 33% tax increase on gas and tobacco? OUCH!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#183 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
borndead1 wrote:
Ooooooooh that's gonna hurt. 23% VAT tax? 30% pay cut for govt workers? 33% tax increase on gas and tobacco? OUCH!



Did you read #121 & 122?

Really good stuff there.
borndead1 Offline
#184 Posted:
Joined: 11-07-2006
Posts: 5,216
What we need to do is figure out how to get all the money back that we've given to foreign countries.

"Give us 100 billion or we send in the drones!"
HockeyDad Offline
#185 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
Austerity sucks! Now you can see why the Greeks are all pissed off. They get to have that austerity plan or go bankrupt and withdraw from the EU. Nice! One out of every five workers in Greece either work for the government or work for a government-owned company.


There are some key differences between Greece and the USA.

Greece is in trouble because they have already taxed the crap out of their people whereas the USA has room to inflict more pain. For example, we could solve our woes with something like a 10% VAT tax.

Nobody trusts Greece so the only loans they can get are at 16% interest. We still have creditors that trust the USA so we can get loans at 3%.
teedubbya Offline
#186 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
they are all so greecy
teedubbya Offline
#187 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
You know you're gold, you don't gotta worry none
Oasis child, born and so wild
Don't I know you better than the rest
All deception, all deception from you

Your love is stag in the white sand
Wilderness for miles, eyes so mild and wise
Don't I know you better than the rest
All deception, all deception from you

Any way you run, you run before us
Black and white horse arching among us

Your love is stag in the white sand
Oasis child born into a man
Don't I know you better than the rest
All deception, all deception from you

Wilderness for miles, eyes so mild and wise
Oasis child, born and so wild
Don't I know you better than the rest
All deception, all deception from you

Any way you run, you run before us
Black and white horse arching among us
Stinkdyr Offline
#188 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
HockeyDad wrote:
Austerity sucks! Now you can see why the Greeks are all pissed off. They get to have that austerity plan or go bankrupt and withdraw from the EU. Nice! One out of every five workers in Greece either work for the government or work for a government-owned company.


There are some key differences between Greece and the USA.

Greece is in trouble because they have already taxed the crap out of their people whereas the USA has room to inflict more pain. For example, we could solve our woes with something like a 10% VAT tax.

Nobody trusts Greece so the only loans they can get are at 16% interest. We still have creditors that trust the USA so we can get loans at 3%.



We just haven't Hoped&Changed and morphed USA into a more Greece-like structure yet............give us time.

Herfing
engletl Offline
#189 Posted:
Joined: 12-26-2000
Posts: 26,493
HockeyDad wrote:
Define "fair share".



IMO Fair Share would mean the elimination of all taxes and institute a singular National Sales Tax

That way if all you can afford is beanie weanies than you are taxed and if you can afford a Bugatti Veyron then you are taxed
borndead1 Offline
#190 Posted:
Joined: 11-07-2006
Posts: 5,216
engletl wrote:
IMO Fair Share would mean the elimination of all taxes and institute a singular National Sales Tax

That way if all you can afford is beanie weanies than you are taxed and if you can afford a Bugatti Veyron then you are taxed


I agree, but it'll never happen. The uber mega super wealthy are actually the ones behind high income tax rates.

One of the main ways the uber mega super wealthy stay wealthy and powerful is by keeping other people from becoming rich.

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