America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
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Obama and Liberal Majority FACILITATE 1ST EVER CREDIT RATING DOWNGRADE
DrMaddVibe Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
Can you imagine if the Kenyan King announced he wanted legislation to repeal NAFTA and his flawed Obamacare bills?

I think Wall Street would respond.

He won't do it though.

That would take real leadership qualities. The kind you don't find in a Chicago alley or a golf course.
HockeyDad Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
Repeal NAFTA and start trade wars.....the Dow will head to 5000 quickly.

Repeal Obamacare....the market would go up and companies could free up cash they're sitting on to pay for it and use that money for investment.
Stinkdyr Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
HockeyDad wrote:
Libertarians = pothead Republicans


Fiscal responsibility, limited government, personal freedoms. Yes, I can see how you can confuse us Libertarians with the Republicans of the last 10 years. (Sarcasm)




Freedom. whatta radical concept.


Herfing
DrMaddVibe Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
HockeyDad wrote:
Repeal NAFTA and start trade wars.....the Dow will head to 5000 quickly.

Repeal Obamacare....the market would go up and companies could free up cash they're sitting on to pay for it and use that money for investment.



I disagree on the NAFTA nudge.

It would put manufacturing here in America back on track.

Google up New Balance shoe company and see what they're up against. The last American shoe company making them in the US...The Kenyan King's administration is in negoiations with Vietnam now.

CEO and CFO's across this nation are scrambling for waivers and licking their chops so they can shuck the entire benefits package down his throat. They realized after watching this stooge erode bond/share holders like it was NOTHING that they had to reserve capital for when he's out of office. They're fighting for survival and leaving him holding his big old empty bag.
HockeyDad Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
NAFTA created winners and losers. The eternal question is do we win more or lose more from free trade agreements. As consumers, we get dirt cheap stuff so everybody wins at a certain level. However, entire industries like clothing are destroyed and shipped overseas but we like $20 shirts and not $40 shirts. Car prices remain stable but tons of widgets and gadgets are made overseas now and those industries are heavily scaled back in the USA.

On the winning side many companies now have access to lots of foreign markets and that increases jobs here that are tied to exports and we do still do a lot of exports. some would say we export goods that are high on the food chain and import goods that are low on the food chain. It sucks if you were a maker of things low on the food chain.

The question becomes if we start canceling NAFTA and other free trade agreements, does the resulting trade wars hurt us more than help us as we now shift to destroying our export industries and rebuilding those industries that were destroyed previously.

It is not a win-win.

They got a name for the winners in the world, I want a name when I lose.
They call Alabama the Crimson Tide, call me Deacon Blues
DrMaddVibe Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
HockeyDad wrote:
NAFTA created winners and losers. The eternal question is do we win more or lose more from free trade agreements. As consumers, we get dirt cheap stuff so everybody wins at a certain level. However, entire industries like clothing are destroyed and shipped overseas but we like $20 shirts and not $40 shirts. Car prices remain stable but tons of widgets and gadgets are made overseas now and those industries are heavily scaled back in the USA.

On the winning side many companies now have access to lots of foreign markets and that increases jobs here that are tied to exports and we do still do a lot of exports. some would say we export goods that are high on the food chain and import goods that are low on the food chain. It sucks if you were a maker of things low on the food chain.

The question becomes if we start canceling NAFTA and other free trade agreements, does the resulting trade wars hurt us more than help us as we now shift to destroying our export industries and rebuilding those industries that were destroyed previously.

It is not a win-win.

They got a name for the winners in the world, I want a name when I lose.
They call Alabama the Crimson Tide, call me Deacon Blues



Wake Forest sucks.

That being said...you cannot create a taxable income if it's never created. The so called cheap stuff wears out faster than a Fuzz opinion post. The educated consumer is feeling it now and is hoarding cash and scaling spending.

We're watching what out corporaions are doing and taking note.

No, I say we need the manufacturing sector. We always have and we always will.
borndead1 Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 11-07-2006
Posts: 5,216
Wages in China have gone up like 25% in the last 8 years.

I think the U.S. will claw SOME of it's manufacturing back, but it's gonna take a while. We need more patriotic Americans to start businesses. Right now there's not much financial incentive to do so because anyone with half a brain knows that higher taxes/more regulations are coming. But, as sweatshop workers in 3rd world countries start demanding better wages and working conditions, and as more consumers start seeking out American made goods, and as small business owners start pushing back against big government, things will slowly get better.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
borndead1 wrote:
Wages in China have gone up like 25% in the last 8 years.

I think the U.S. will claw SOME of it's manufacturing back, but it's gonna take a while. We need more patriotic Americans to start businesses. Right now there's not much financial incentive to do so because anyone with half a brain knows that higher taxes/more regulations are coming. But, as sweatshop workers in 3rd world countries start demanding better wages and working conditions, and as more consumers start seeking out American made goods, and as small business owners start pushing back against big government, things will slowly get better.



Funny you type this...we recently had an incident where a call center went completely offline for DAYS!!! In India I guess if the competition wants to raise the stakes and give workers a .25 an hour raise they close the town and everyone jumps.

The call center was moved to Spain and is now set up in Costa Rica!

It is my hope and desire that manufacturing can jumpstart the American machine that once was the Wall Street darling of the 50's and 60's.

I'm not silly enough to jump on the "Buy American" bandwagon because in this day and age..you really CAN'T! Components are made elsewhere, finish install on furniture from Ethan Allen? Pacific Rim now! Wiring harnesses for American cars/trucks...China! You can do your best, but the buying the cheap junk, I'm not doing it anymore. I'd rather go to yard sales and flea markets and find older vintage stuff that already lasted a lifetime and will go through another for tools and other various kitchen and handtools. I'd rather buy used than over and over again. Same goes for clothes. I'm not chasing fashion. I'll buy when I need an item from now on. Lessons learned from this dismal economy and from disconnecting the tv!
HockeyDad Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
DrMaddVibe wrote:
The educated consumer is feeling it now and is hoarding cash and scaling spending.

We're watching what out corporations are doing and taking note.



That actually is worthy of an entire thread. What are consumers doing now or differently since the economy tanked and appears to remain tanked.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
HockeyDad wrote:
That actually is worthy of an entire thread. What are consumers doing now or differently since the economy tanked and appears to remain tanked.



Yeah...this is the kinda deep stuff we talk about when we're brewing beer, drinking and having a smoke or 3!
HockeyDad Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
It is the motive behind why I asked FuzzNJ on another thread "What percent of your family's income above and beyond what you pay right now are you willing to pay in increased taxes to do your fair share in fixing the problem?

You scream if it is higher, you're happy if it is lower. You willing to kick in 1%, 5%, 10%"

His couldn't answer but I can. I am expecting 5%.

I know my taxes will go up and I am de-leveraging existing debt and not taking on new big purchases like cars or boats and taking on no new debt. I am prepared for a significant hit to my income due to new taxation like the full expiration of all the Bush tax cuts and increased medical insurance costs.

I'm doing exactly what corporations are doing and I know it is not good for the economy but it is good for Le HockeyDad.

DrMaddVibe Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
He never answers anything.

Yet, he has his entire family stand around his computer chair as he reads him his witty replies!

IRONIC!

He can't see the pain train coming. Why, because...its gonna hit the rich.


As you're well aware, the cut where you can is already in full effect in my household. The 1st thing to go...Cable tv. Internet phone...DVR...see ya! That one move freed up almost 1200.00! Then I re-evaluated the insurance coverage on my house and cars. Saved moocho dinero there! Then started taking my lunches 4 days a week and eat out as a treat on Fridays. That was over 10 bucks a day. Cut out stuff like soda...lost weight and gained money! It's really easy to see where to cut if you take the time to see where the money is going. Once you see it and identify it...it's on the block. Once cut it becomes a cat/mouse kinda thing...am I really gonna miss it, can I do without it gamble. So far, so good.
borndead1 Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 11-07-2006
Posts: 5,216
DMV and Le HockeyDad, your money-saving moves are commendable, but you have both dodged the REALLY important question here...


At what point do you stop buying cigars?
gringococolo Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 02-04-2006
Posts: 4,626
borndead1 wrote:
DMV and Le HockeyDad, your money-saving moves are commendable, but you have both dodged the REALLY important question here...


At what point do you stop buying cigars?




Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey! DON'T get crazy now, we aren't talking the end of the world.
HockeyDad Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
borndead1 wrote:
DMV and Le HockeyDad, your money-saving moves are commendable, but you have both dodged the REALLY important question here...


At what point do you stop buying cigars?



If things got tight, cigars would be one of the absolute first things to go. It is a pure luxury item.
HockeyDad Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
I suspect most don't realize how I came to 5% reduction in pay.

Right now there is a temporary tax reduction where employers only take out 4.2% for Social Security instead of 6.2%. When that goes away, there is 2% right there.

Then when all the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of 2012, the 10% bracket goes to 15% and every other bracket goes up by 3%.

2+3 = 5% pay cut. The 2% hits in 2012 and the 3% hits in 2013. Unless there is legislation to stop this, these take affect automatically. The debt problem and credit downgrade will make it very difficult to extend these and the Bush tax cuts expire after Obama's re-election or lame ducking. He can hold the pledge on no new taxes to the "non-rich" and renege by vetoing anything as soon as the election is over. No politician will even touch it before the election.

A 5% hit to salary is coming for everyone at a minimum.

DrafterX Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Think Think
I better ask for a raise..... Mellow
HockeyDad Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
Good luck with that!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
borndead1 wrote:
DMV and Le HockeyDad, your money-saving moves are commendable, but you have both dodged the REALLY important question here...


At what point do you stop buying cigars?



The decision is easy for me to make. If it comes between necessity and luxury, necessity wins every damn time. Housing, food, clothes, car, medical/dental and anything else like that gets funded. Cigars...booze...funstuffs...that gets prioritized in order that it gets needed if at all. I don't miss tv one damn bit except for weather safety announcements. That caught me off guard, but now I monitor the web and radio a bit more.

Cancelled my cellphone because work pays for one...why have 2? That's over 1000.00 right there too!

Also, you have to be fiscally restrained to begin with. I NEVER got caught up with having to have the newest car, or bought into the hype of having the newest toys. I have always bought on an as needed basis and I refuse to buy new! Let some schlub pay the 15-30% retail price! I've ALWAYS bought a newer used car or truck...maybe a year old usually 2...STILL under warranty. I still have my 2004 F-150 Lariat Crew...150K miles on her, and a 2004 Chrysler Town & County minivan with 34K on it...yes 34,000 miles. I take care of what I have and kinda snicker at those that get a new car every model year because the radio knobs are in a different place or they HAVE to smell the new car smell. I'd rather live debt free and smell the GREEN smell of cash!

Dave Ramsey was right and is right. In order to live like no one else, you have to live like no one else. Only those that have walked that path KNOW what I'm talking about. You CAN effectively take control of your life and strifes associated with money by reigning it in.

Been talking about for years...Gene too.

Now that the crap is hitting the fan those all wrapped up in financed cars/toys and underwater with their houses are taking note. The Aesop Fabel of the Grasshopper and the Ant is what it's about. You have to prepare. You have to have a plan and stick with it.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
DrafterX wrote:
Think Think
I better ask for a raise..... Mellow



Don't know what to tell ya on that!

They keep telling me I'm lucky to HAVE my job...so, there's no sense in rocking the apple cart looking for more.

In 2009 I worked on a team of over 16 people. Now there's 3. Our work has effectively tripled. They've added more and more lines of business and we've integrated it assimilitaed it and watched the carnage. Duplicate positions eliminated...buildings closed...streamlining everything.

The best you can do is stay current with your position, grab everything you can, volunteer for it all and be all to everyone that wants you.

THAT'S how I've been able to be where I am.

The gravy train left the station with the Dot Com bubble. Now the cream rises. Obtaining a position that pays anywhere close to what I'm making (and I'm making LESS than I did 5 years ago because I haven't been given a raise!!!) now takes the guys that were on my team over a year to get if they're lucky. Most have 2 jobs.

We are watching the entire system we grew with up melt away. The American Dream is dead. The fork is in her back!

Just like in the original "Planet of the Apes" at the end of the film as he's looking at the carnage that he KNEW was at our own hands..."Oh, I guess they did it. Damn them all to hell". We did it to ourselves. Now, you have to learn to live with a bunch of noisy monkees running the place!
DrafterX Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
no more apples for X..... Sad
DrMaddVibe Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-McpNtHet3w


Preach it Bro!!!!


horse
HockeyDad Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
That is as good as Dylan Rattigan!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
Actually I like it better than Dylan!

snowwolf777 Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 06-03-2000
Posts: 4,082
At least El Presidente Bobblehead has a legacy now. He can be in the history books for presiding over our credit downgrade.

Frying pan
DrMaddVibe Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
Yo Borndead....


http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/113304/fast-ways-save-money


It's like looking at a shadow!

The last one the "recommend"...take a pair of scissors to them all if you can. I realize you have to have plastic, but you don't need a wallet 5" thick either!

Simplify.

Other than that...it's pretty much the same advice I already threw out there. What people do with it is their part.
teedubbya Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
HockeyDad wrote:
I suspect most don't realize how I came to 5% reduction in pay.

Right now there is a temporary tax reduction where employers only take out 4.2% for Social Security instead of 6.2%. When that goes away, there is 2% right there.

Then when all the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of 2012, the 10% bracket goes to 15% and every other bracket goes up by 3%.

2+3 = 5% pay cut. The 2% hits in 2012 and the 3% hits in 2013. Unless there is legislation to stop this, these take affect automatically. The debt problem and credit downgrade will make it very difficult to extend these and the Bush tax cuts expire after Obama's re-election or lame ducking. He can hold the pledge on no new taxes to the "non-rich" and renege by vetoing anything as soon as the election is over. No politician will even touch it before the election.

A 5% hit to salary is coming for everyone at a minimum.



At a minimum is the key. You may have a ballpark estimate this way but you can't add simple averages. There is a compounding issue here.


but the point is well taken.

I've been spending like a fiend lately. Maybe I need to reflect.

I do think many dems are having buyers remorse with the Big O. I just hope they have more conviction than the Republicans did and the result is different than when the Republicans sold out on Bush's second term.
jackconrad Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
Consumers Lose Confidence, as Do Once-Hopeful Economists
By Aaron Task | Daily Ticker – 40 minutes ago


Follow The Daily Ticker on Facebook here!
What a difference a month — and a brewing financial crisis — makes.
In early July, Moody's economist Mark Zandi told The Daily Ticker the U.S. economy was poised to "reaccelerate," predicting GDP growth close to 3% growth in the third quarter and approaching 4% in the fourth.
On Friday, Zandi lowered his forecast for U.S. GDP to 2% in the second half and just over 3% in 2012.
I don't mean to pick on Zandi, who is far from alone in slashing estimates: Economist surveyed by The WSJ now forecast 2011 growth of 1.6%, down from 2.6% in July; 13% say the economy is already in recession while 29% see a downturn in 2012, up from just 17% last month. Zandi too has raised the odds of a new recession to 33% from 25% only 10 days ago, CNN reports.
"We no longer expect a bounce in GDP growth during the second half of the year," writes IHS Global's chief U.S. Economist Nigel Gault, who on Friday lowered his 2011 GDP outlook to 1.6% from 2.5%, and 2012 forecast to 1.9% from 2.6%.
Gault cites a number of factors for declaring that "temporary shocks" is no longer a credible explanation for soft growth during the first half of 2011, including:
"Historical revisions to GDP," which showed growth tailing off to just 1.6% over the past four quarters.
Confidence in U.S. policymaking hitting new lows, a trend reflected in Friday's dismal consumer confidence data. "The artificial debt-ceiling crisis took the country to the brink of default," he writes. "And the resolution produced just more discretionary spending cuts, not progress on entitlements and revenues, which are the long-term keys to the problem."
Europe's sovereign debt crisis spreading beyond the so-called periphery while "European policymakers have been consistently one or two steps behind the markets in their reaction."
Just about every economist has drawn the same conclusion as Gault, mainly for the same reasons. This week's grim June trade deficit figures — at $53.1 billion, the highest since October 2008 — was another blow for optimists, as exports tumbled 2.3% and imports fell by 0.8% even as crude prices were still rising.
Economics: Now, With Even More Uncertainty!
But have some sympathy for these purveyors of the dismal science. This week also brought better-than-expected results on July retail sales while weekly jobless claims fell below 400,000 for the first time since early April. "Many of the most relevant coincident and lagging indicators continue to indicate growth — sluggish, unsatisfying growth, but growth nonetheless," as Dan Gross writes.
The tricky issue here is that the slashing of growth projections is both a function of, and contributor to, the recent upheaval in the financial markets. Although he doesn't foresee a double-dip, "financial markets create their own dynamics," Warren Buffett told Bloomberg TV last weekend.
If it's really the economy (stupid), recent drama in the financial markets can be attributed to the sharp downward revisions to growth estimates, which hit earnings forecasts which, in turn, prompt a reevaluation of the whole "stocks are cheap" valuation case for those using forward P/E ratios, as Henry and I discuss in the accompanying video.
As a wild week comes to a close, the market seems to be betting the worst has been "priced in," even as economists -- from optimists like Zandi to skeptics like Nouriel Roubini - are ratcheting up their forecasts for another recession.
Ahead of the market's rally on Thursday and Friday (but before the big swoon Wednesday afternoon), BTIG's Dan Greenhaus told The Daily Ticker stocks were a good buy, provided we're not heading for another recession.
Of course, that's a very big "if" -- one seemingly haunted by more uncertainty with each passing day.
borndead1 Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 11-07-2006
Posts: 5,216
DrMaddVibe wrote:
The last one the "recommend"...take a pair of scissors to them all if you can. I realize you have to have plastic, but you don't need a wallet 5" thick either!




I cut mine up and cancelled them long ago. My debit card works just fine. Iffin' the money ain't there, it ain't there.

I also cook all my own meals. I eat out maybe once every few months. I spend maybe $40-$50 a week on groceries and I eat like a king. I get the Sunday paper so I can check out all the sales and I only buy stuff that's on sale. I just got 3 racks of baby back ribs for $2.99/lb. SCORE!!!!!!!!!

I also don't buy new CDs and DVDs, with very few exceptions. Like when Motorhead puts out a new album. I gotta have that sh*t on day 1.

donutboy2000 Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 11-20-2001
Posts: 25,000
Gold $1900 !
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