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Russiancrusher Offline
#51 Posted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 6:54 PM EST
Joined: 07-21-2002
Posts: 1,171
dstieger wrote:
Shiny! Embrace the future - vote for Rombie! 'Joss', by the way.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I voted Perot on an absentee ballot (early) in '92. Shortly after I mailed my ballot, he started in with the public paranoia about the RNC conspiracy to get to him through his daughter's wedding (or some such silliness.) I thought for years that I'd have voted differently had I waited for election day. Now, I'm glad I helped push the 'legitimacy' of a third party to 19% - And, I am convinced he'd have been a better president than Clinton was and better than GHWB II would have been. Loved Stockdale on the debate stage.




Joss, I know. It was a typo.

Great you tube video.
rfenst Offline
#52 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 3:03 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
bloody spaniard wrote:

Why are good judges/justices... "hard to come by"? We have an inexhaustible supply.


Because even being a great lawyer doesn't mean one will be a decent judge- two totally different skill sets and aptitudes.

Good Justices are even harder to come by. They usually first serve quite a bit of time until appointed up from a trial court to an appellate court, where they usually serve for a while and refine their appellate court skills.

State supreme court justices are usually "the cream of the crop" from the already serving appellate court justices. By this point, we are down to far less than 1% of the judges and lower court justices.
itsawaldo Offline
#53 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 6:30 AM EST
Joined: 09-10-2006
Posts: 4,221
jackconrad wrote:
Robert don't forget. "VOTE EARLY and Often !"



I was raised in Cook County IL and that was the mantra that was thrown around every election cycle.

Early voted Monday, they insisted I show my ID, not my voter ID card. I said I thought US Government decided that was illegal, if I am here and want to vote I should be able to.
She flashed some sign at me with a picture of Uncle Sam on it with the statute saying to early vote you must show ID.
I told her she was screwing up my plans to vote "early and often!".
She almost refused me my ballot except for the round of laughter from folks around me saved my azz.

Im going back Tuesday and try again..... in Illinois you need to vote the other party twice at least to overcome the machine.
critter2 Offline
#54 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 7:32 AM EST
Joined: 11-02-2007
Posts: 6,110

Although Justices Barbara Pariente, R. Fred Lewis, and Peggy Quince are insisting that voters should ignore their rulings when they head to the polls, and consider only whether these jurists have ever committed a crime, their critics and other legal scholars say otherwise -- i.e., that it is absolutely relevant to their retention that voters consider whether these justices are interpreting relevant law according to its original public meaning, or whether they are left-wing activists who ignore the law and impose their own personal moral philosophy on cases that come before them.

Below is the whole story from Sunshine News:

http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/three-justices-inventing-elements-crime-or-doing-best-legislative-screw-up?utm_source=constantcontact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=110112
rfenst Offline
#55 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 8:32 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
itsawaldo wrote:
I was raised in Cook County IL and that was the mantra that was thrown around every election cycle.

Early voted Monday, they insisted I show my ID, not my voter ID card. I said I thought US Government decided that was illegal, if I am here and want to vote I should be able to.
She flashed some sign at me with a picture of Uncle Sam on it with the statute saying to early vote you must show ID.
I told her she was screwing up my plans to vote "early and often!".
She almost refused me my ballot except for the round of laughter from folks around me saved my azz.

Im going back Tuesday and try again..... in Illinois you need to vote the other party twice at least to overcome the machine.


Ever talk about a bomb while in line to get on a plane?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#56 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 9:11 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
critter2 wrote:
Although Justices Barbara Pariente, R. Fred Lewis, and Peggy Quince are insisting that voters should ignore their rulings when they head to the polls, and consider only whether these jurists have ever committed a crime, their critics and other legal scholars say otherwise -- i.e., that it is absolutely relevant to their retention that voters consider whether these justices are interpreting relevant law according to its original public meaning, or whether they are left-wing activists who ignore the law and impose their own personal moral philosophy on cases that come before them.

Below is the whole story from Sunshine News:

http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/three-justices-inventing-elements-crime-or-doing-best-legislative-screw-up?utm_source=constantcontact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=110112




Awesome article.

Shows EXACTLY why I'm willing to toss those 3 on the deadweight pile!

Disgusting "interpreters" that "think" they know not only the intent but the letter of the Law. Little legal wrangling looking for some loophole that's not specified yet changes they way a law has been handled for decades...all of a sudden...they KNOW better? They can go to hell! They're what's WRONG with America today.
rfenst Offline
#57 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 9:12 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
critter2 wrote:
Although Justices Barbara Pariente, R. Fred Lewis, and Peggy Quince are insisting that voters should ignore their rulings when they head to the polls, and consider only whether these jurists have ever committed a crime, their critics and other legal scholars say otherwise -- i.e., that it is absolutely relevant to their retention that voters consider whether these justices are interpreting relevant law according to its original public meaning, or whether they are left-wing activists who ignore the law and impose their own personal moral philosophy on cases that come before them.

Below is the whole story from Sunshine News:

http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/three-justices-inventing-elements-crime-or-doing-best-legislative-screw-up?utm_source=constantcontact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=110112



In the 70's, three Justices were accused of taking bribes. Needless to say, that led to outrage. In response, merit retention was put in place to provide an avenue for "bad" justices to be removed for "bad" conduct. While you certainly can use your merit retention vote any way you want, even including ridding the Court of a justice you oppose merely on political or philosophical grounds, that is not what was intended (for those who love original intent arguments).

My personal concern here is that if these justices are voted out (which they probably will be), the Court will, from election day forward, be influences by the political process as opposed to the constitutionality of law. We might as well put them up for sale like the three from the 70's were accused of. This move is nothing more than a partisan power grab to gain control of the courts.



(P.S. The news source you cited describes its own agenda and plainly states on its websites that its articles promote the editors' philosophies. Fair and balanced it is not.)
HockeyDad Offline
#58 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 9:22 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
rfenst wrote:
Because even being a great lawyer doesn't mean one will be a decent judge- two totally different skill sets and aptitudes.

Good Justices are even harder to come by. They usually first serve quite a bit of time until appointed up from a trial court to an appellate court, where they usually serve for a while and refine their appellate court skills.

State supreme court justices are usually "the cream of the crop" from the already serving appellate court justices. By this point, we are down to far less than 1% of the judges and lower court justices.




I'm sure there are plenty of good appellate court justices just waiting in the wings for their "big break"!
rfenst Offline
#59 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 9:28 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
HockeyDad wrote:
I'm sure there are plenty of good appellate court justices just waiting in the wings for their "big break"!


You would think, but that isn't the case. Waiting for that big break doesn't translate to being qualified.
HockeyDad Offline
#60 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 9:31 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
rfenst wrote:
You would think, but that isn't the case. Waiting for that big break doesn't translate to being qualified.



SO you're saying every appellate court judge in Florida is incompetent???? Good thing I voted some of them out too!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#61 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 9:34 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
rfenst wrote:
You would think, but that isn't the case. Waiting for that big break doesn't translate to being qualified.



So you have to be on the bench forever to be qualified...uh...yeah...ok.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#62 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 9:34 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
HockeyDad wrote:
SO you're saying every appellate court judge in Florida is incompetent???? Good thing I voted some of them out too!



Robert is the only person I know that voted FOR them!horse
teedubbya Offline
#63 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 9:58 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrMaddVibe wrote:
So you have to be on the bench forever to be qualified...uh...yeah...ok.



I could be wrong, but I don't think that is exactly what he was saying....

that said who the eff cares who the judges are in that backwards ass state?
HockeyDad Offline
#64 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 10:05 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
teedubbya wrote:

that said who the eff cares who the judges are in that backwards ass state?



Al Gore
DrMaddVibe Offline
#65 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 10:06 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
HockeyDad wrote:
Al Gore




horse



but wait...TW's in Kansas City!!!

At least we have indoor plumbing and air conditioning!!!!
teedubbya Offline
#66 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 10:08 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
HockeyDad wrote:
Al Gore


al gore only cares about woodsy the owl. he never really wanted to be prez.... he was just trying to help us. chad effed that up.

DMV my state is effed up too. I live right on the mason dixon line.... the whole effin state is a fence post.

that does not change how effed up florida is though
DrMaddVibe Offline
#67 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 10:11 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
teedubbya wrote:

that does not change how effed up florida is though



Ummm...the point the HD was making that's CLEARLY lost on you is that FLORIDA...well, we have the ability to eff up the ENTIRE nation, nay the GLOBE!!!...especially with our STELLAR Judicial Branch!
teedubbya Offline
#68 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 10:15 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Ummm...the point the HD was making that's CLEARLY lost on you is that FLORIDA...well, we have the ability to eff up the ENTIRE nation, nay the GLOBE!!!...especially with our STELLAR Judicial Branch!


not intentionally though. its random because yall are inept
teedubbya Offline
#69 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 10:15 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
and being one of the swinger states you are keeping company with Iowa and Ohio.... congratulations chad
DrMaddVibe Offline
#70 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 10:25 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
teedubbya wrote:
and being one of the swinger states you are keeping company with Iowa and Ohio.... congratulations chad



We're #1!!!


American exceptionalism!
ZRX1200 Offline
#71 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 10:29 AM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
Rfenster you're missing the possibility that voters believe those justices are imposing their political views.....
HockeyDad Offline
#72 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 10:36 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
If these judges are tossed out, lawyers will be fine. They'll just stick to the Pirates Code!
HockeyDad Offline
#73 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 10:37 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
teedubbya wrote:
al I live right on the mason dixon line....



No you don't!
DrafterX Offline
#74 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 10:39 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
he might be thinking of the Bible Belt..... Mellow
bloody spaniard Offline
#75 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 10:48 AM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
ZRX1200 wrote:
Rfenster you're missing the possibility that voters believe those justices are imposing their political views.....



Don't even bother. I tried but he doesn't get that old, dirty parts need to be replaced periodically... Brick wall

Where's that bag of glue, Drafter?Drool
teedubbya Offline
#76 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 10:49 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
HockeyDad wrote:
No you don't!


I stand corrected. In terms of the litteral line of demarcation I am incorrect. In terms of the broader applicaiton of the term as it was used during the civil war and following I am closer to correct. But I realize in here that is not close enough and admit with no hesitation or caveats that I was incorrect and for that I apologize. I am truly sorry.


but none of this changes the fact that florida sucks.
teedubbya Offline
#77 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 10:50 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
the grass is always greener
bloody spaniard Offline
#78 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 10:55 AM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
teedubbya wrote:
I stand corrected. In terms of the litteral line of demarcation I am incorrect. In terms of the broader applicaiton of the term as it was used during the civil war and following I am closer to correct. But I realize in here that is not close enough and admit with no hesitation or caveats that I was incorrect and for that I apologize. I am truly sorry.

but none of this changes the fact that florida sucks.




Where the hell is my glue???
teedubbya Offline
#79 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 10:57 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
it's holding your chest hair on
rfenst Offline
#80 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 5:20 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
HockeyDad wrote:
SO you're saying every appellate court judge in Florida is incompetent???? Good thing I voted some of them out too!


No. I did not say that. Just that being an appellate judge doesn't translate into the appropriate skill set for the FSC.
rfenst Offline
#81 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 5:46 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
DrMaddVibe wrote:
So you have to be on the bench forever to be qualified...uh...yeah...ok.


No.

I think the best path to be a FSC Justice is being a good trial lawyer (courtroom experience and above average working knowledge of trial law) followed by a stint as a Judge. Once the individual proves themselves as a Judge and shows the important qualities of an appellate justice, they should then move up to an appellate court. Once they prove themselves as a good appellate justice, they should be considered for the FSC.

Another good route would be for a good appellate lawyer to be placed on an appellate panel. When that person proves themselves as an appellate justice, he/she then should be considered for FSC.

Whenever someone "leap-frogs", there is a much greater risk of incompetence. When appointments are made based on politics, there is a greater risk of incompetence. When there is too great turnover, things won't work well.

These are supposed to be non-partisan elections and jobs. But, they are not. Ideally, money, politics and influence either way should have no place. Outside influence and the FRP have ruined this.
HockeyDad Offline
#82 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 5:58 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
It sounds like we are doomed once the current crop of Florida supreme court justices die off so we might as well just go ahead and vote them all out of office now and get it over with.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#83 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 6:01 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
HockeyDad wrote:
It sounds like we are doomed once the current crop of Florida supreme court justices die off so we might as well just go ahead and vote them all out of office now and get it over with.



I'm doing my part!
rfenst Offline
#84 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 6:04 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
ZRX1200 wrote:
Rfenster you're missing the possibility that voters believe those justices are imposing their political views.....


I am not missing that point. People do feel that way. They have every right to. They are free to vote however they choose- for whatever reason they choose. On the other hand, others feel the Justices are not imposing their views improperly. They are free to think, feel and vote how they choose too.

finally, there is a third group amongst a few others, who just don't want politics and influence to be a part of a non-partisan process. This is the very group I stand with.

Independence and non-bias are what is absolutely the most important thing for all to strive to protect. The political flavor of the day should not, IMO, have any bearing in this matter whatsoever. To be sure, there are plenty of outcomes I don't like, but if they are the result of valid legal analysis and application of laws and precedent to facts- that is far more important to me.
rfenst Offline
#85 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 6:05 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
HockeyDad wrote:
It sounds like we are doomed once the current crop of Florida supreme court justices die off so we might as well just go ahead and vote them all out of office now and get it over with.


Off with their heads too!
rfenst Offline
#86 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 6:07 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
bloody spaniard wrote:
Don't even bother. I tried but he doesn't get that old, dirty parts need to be replaced periodically... Brick wall



But, clean ones shouldn't just because.
HockeyDad Offline
#87 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 6:08 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
rfenst wrote:
But, clean ones shouldn't just because.



That's called preventative maintenance.
HockeyDad Offline
#88 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 6:09 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
rfenst wrote:
Off with their heads too!



Also known as a French vote of no confidence.
itsawaldo Offline
#89 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 6:48 PM EST
Joined: 09-10-2006
Posts: 4,221
rfenst wrote:
Ever talk about a bomb while in line to get on a plane?


I'm slow not stupid!

TSA knows where I go, when I go, when I'm thinking about going. Also that dang nexus card has an rfid tag in it.
bloody spaniard Offline
#90 Posted: Thu, Nov 1 2012, 7:21 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
rfenst wrote:
But, clean ones shouldn't just because.


Clean ones forever? Only in the movies...
Stinkdyr Offline
#91 Posted: Tue, Nov 6 2012, 7:53 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
DrMaddVibe wrote:
IF we were really serious...we'd solve the immigration issue.

1. End the "anchor baby" dilemma. We're the only nation that offers that. You're not a citizen from the US and have a kid here...congrats...now take you kid home. they're YOUR problem.

2. Instead of rounding up illegals like some "Planet of the Apes" movie...just shoot them. I'm not kidding. They would stop immediately if it started tomorrow. Other nations do it too.

3. Can't provide a valid drivers license, passport and birth certificate you don't get access to hospitals, jobs or education.

Feel free to add to this list but really if we're at the point where we're crying about not spending enough...we're spending waaaay too much and getting too little return for it. Teaching to a standardized test? That's insanity. The smart or gifted aren't rewarded. The stupid get a pass or get shoved on through. How many professional athletes cannot even READ? Please.


Shooting them is a tad harsh.
Just launch a few back over the border via catapult..........word will spread fast enough.


Ay carumba! Este burro no sirve! horse


DrMaddVibe Offline
#92 Posted: Tue, Nov 6 2012, 10:27 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
Stinkdyr wrote:
Shooting them is a tad harsh.
Just launch a few back over the border via catapult..........word will spread fast enough.


Ay carumba! Este burro no sirve! horse





C,mon...you've been here long enough to know 2 things about me.


1) I ALREADY called Top Bunk

2) I ushered in the usage of catapults to curb illegal immigration.
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