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NBC New's Obamacare Premium Calculator
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cacman Offline
#51 Posted: Fri, Oct 4 2013, 9:40 AM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Any systems that depends on the youngest and poorest people to sign-up for policies they couldn't afford before the law was passed, is doomed to fail.

So we are FORCED to depend on a bunch of 20yr olds just out of high-school or entering/graduating college to sign-up in order for the costs to go down? LMFAO!!! This is the same group of people demanding $15hr for minimum wage while working an unskilled labor job at a burger joint.

Good luck with that…
HockeyDad Offline
#52 Posted: Fri, Oct 4 2013, 9:52 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,179
cacman wrote:
Any systems that depends on the youngest and poorest people to sign-up for policies they couldn't afford before the law was passed, is doomed to fail.

So we are FORCED to depend on a bunch of 20yr olds just out of high-school or entering/graduating college to sign-up in order for the costs to go down? LMFAO!!! This is the same group of people demanding $15hr for minimum wage while working an unskilled labor job at a burger joint.

Good luck with that…




What would work is single payer Medicare for all, cradle to grave.
teedubbya Offline
#53 Posted: Fri, Oct 4 2013, 10:14 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I say we just let it fail since we are all smart enough to know it will.
DrafterX Offline
#54 Posted: Fri, Oct 4 2013, 10:15 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,571
But if we don't pay won't the guys wearing Jack's boots come kick in our doors..?? Huh
teedubbya Offline
#55 Posted: Fri, Oct 4 2013, 10:30 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
But if we don't pay won't the guys wearing Jack's boots come kick in our doors..?? Huh


Maybe. But I hear you can convert the $95 into $50 if you find the right thug.
Bur Offline
#56 Posted: Fri, Oct 4 2013, 12:16 PM EST
Joined: 07-31-2012
Posts: 5,638
HockeyDad wrote:
What would work is single payer Medicare for all, cradle to grave.


How? At what cost per person and how would those funds be raised? And at what availability of care (wait time, treatment protocols, level of care per person)?

At some point this discussion is a canard and the real discussion is "health" and "health care" as construed in modern western society is a commodity and the rules of commodoties apply:

There is an upward limit of available supply
There are costs developing this supply and getting it to "market" (in this case us as functioning humans)
Either the free market sets this cost through competition or the government does through regulation
Rational persons will either pay this cost or adapt to doing without, including accept penalty (financial or physcial)

I know that seems heartless as friends are caught up in this (one is a former MLB All-Star dying of prostrate cancer and wondering how to afford drugs) but on a macro level the facts are someone will have to pay for health care-either the individual, an insurance company that pools risk, charitable organizations (they used to run hospitcals) or the government.

Oh wait, I'm sorry I'm remembering economics classes. Remember those? They don't teach them anymore unless you specifically take b-school classes IN COLLEGE. Used to be a high school course.....
teedubbya Offline
#57 Posted: Fri, Oct 4 2013, 12:20 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Your condesending attitude is duly noted. as is your inability to identify sarcasm.

Flapper
HockeyDad Offline
#58 Posted: Fri, Oct 4 2013, 12:42 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,179
Bur wrote:
How? At what cost per person and how would those funds be raised?



We raise taxes. Simple. It is time you pay your fair share.
Bur Offline
#59 Posted: Fri, Oct 4 2013, 2:12 PM EST
Joined: 07-31-2012
Posts: 5,638
100%, all in baby. Uncle Sugar has already taken plenty of birthdays....
jpotts Offline
#60 Posted: Fri, Oct 4 2013, 2:56 PM EST
Joined: 06-14-2006
Posts: 28,811
victor809 wrote:
That seems like a stupid assumption.

If people didn't have insurance, but had an emergency, they went to the emergency room.
If people did have insurance, but had an emergency, they went to the emergency room.
Some subset of people who didn't have insurance, but had a problem they needed looking at, went to the emergency room.

Now, if everyone has insurance, seems only the first 2 groups would go to the emergency room.
The third group would schedule with their primary care physician, as normal.

Primary care doctors, and emergency rooms are two different groups. There may not be enough primary care doctors, but there shouldn't be a burden on emergency rooms.

I don't like obamacare, but make better arguments.




Mmmmm...no.

You cut yourself and you need stitches, you go to an emergency room whether your primary care doctor is open or not. The reason is that for things like that, many (most) primary care doctors don't do minor surgeries like that in office because the insurance companies make the rates of coverage prohibitive. At best, you'll get them to remove the stiches. But it wasn't like that in the past before insurance billing and malpractice started growing out of control. Nowadays, the best you'll get from them is blood drawn, maybe an X-ray, an EKG, or a finger up the butt (which will undoubtedly get wheel into the doctor's office knowing that this is now available).

My great-uncle, when his practice was open, used to do minor surgeries and even house calls. The guy he sold his practice to basically did the same thing up until (or about) the 1990s. That's when the insurance companies clamped down on what they would pay, and raised rates for surgical (he had a different word for it that escapes me at the present) for malpractice insurance. It forced him to dump those types of procedure being done in-office.

So there is a correlation.
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