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Celtic brings up a lot of valid points. The Liberals aren't the only ones who are ramming their beliefs down the rest of society. Clearly, there is a difference of opinion on these topics here and we aren't going to change anyone's beliefs with a post on a cigar forum. TMCTLT, the government has been legislating how company's can conduct business since the founding of this country.

Vicki lives in San Fran????

Back at cha!

When, where & who said that..??

All I'll say is this Paul. I think a lot of people misuse the term morals/morality. I don't think being gay has anything to do with morality. Someone being gay causes no harm to anyone. No one should be able to discriminate against anyone because of who that person chooses to love.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

What an elegant and succinct way of conveying such a huge idea. Now some would argue that the Creator has a problem with homosexuality, others would say different. That argument is a long road that leads to nowhere except anger and hate. It's just not worth it in my eyes. How could anything that brings out such anger and hate and violence all because of who someone chooses to love be a good thing, a moral thing? All I said was that I don't think the government should be legislating morality. For some reason that made you angry. I know that it happens, I never said it didn't. I just said I don't think they should. I think both sides are spending so much time and energy and obscene amounts of money on trying to tear each other down that they don't realize they are tearing the country as a whole down with them.

but what about the childrens..??? nobody ever thinks about the childrens....

I heard he was only half black...

Rick, I have not seen a post by you in awhile, I hope you are doing well.

I realize that what I wrote is my opinion. I'm trying to give you my view on things without starting an argument because I realize that neither of us is going to change our point of view and starting an argument over it, causing bad blood between us etc isn't worth it. I guess what I was trying to express is that it seems things have devolved to the point that what side you are on doesn't seem to matter anymore. Both sides have pushed each other over the edge and they've brought us all along for the ride. The politicians of today seem to have forgotten their manners and what their job is. There is no give and take anymore. Rather than compromise and move us forward, they seem content with the idea that if they don't get it all their way then no one gets anything. Diplomacy has turned into a ridiculous version of a 9yr old kid on the playground who is taking his ball and going home if he doesn't get his way. Arguing about specifics is pretty much a waste of time and energy now and the only people benefiting from this state of affairs are the pundits and news organizations. This is what I was trying to say originally and when I used the topic of homosexuality to make a point, it side tracked the conversation. I really didn't intend to start arguing specifics, I wanted to talk about the big picture and how both sides are coloring so far outside the lines now that the original picture has become extremely distorted. So I hope I didn't cause any hard feelings, that wasn't my intent.

And yes, that should be "capitalized", but I lack the ability to edit from my phone. Anyways, sorry to interrupt. Proceed.

A) You should probably review your writing before bashing someone's editing abilities.(I.e. you're*, and "ability to edit, period".*) Just saying.

B) My comment actually spoke nothing towards my political affiliation, it was simply an observation. It is your kind of bull headed, outdated view (happens on both sides) of the world that keeps productive dialogue from happening, an attitude which is little different than "throwing gas on the fire". And in regards to "grotesque" homosexuality... it isn't a social issue, and it's your own fault if someone else's life bothers you that much. Whether or not I agree with it literally makes no difference. It is not the government's job to decide "natural order", and just the fact that you feel entitled to be offended by someone else's life because their views don't align with yours means that they are just as entitled to the same opinion of who you are. The bottom line is that the whole basis of our freedom is equal liberties for all citizens, not just the ones who are "American" enough. Remember, not too long ago many believed that it was "grotesque and socially unacceptable" for black people to use the same facilities as whites. And if you're planning on saying "that's not the same thing", it really is (aside from us dragging them over on boats and dehumanizing them for centuries). It is about civil liberties for Americans, and gay people have as much choice about who they are as we have about the color of our skin. So no, it's not just throwing gas on the fire, but the only reason you're even reading this far is to get more material to fire back at me with, which is why I don't usually find it worthwhile to actually get involved with these things.on the internet.

C) I prefer the term, "stirring the pot".

And
I prefer the term legislating a " feel good feeling " and to compare this ( being Gay ) to ones skin color is just foolish....one had NO choice, the other most definitely DOES. It's interesting that just recently a State Senator who had previously voted time and again to Uphold DOMA ( defense of Marriage Act ) = one man / one woman all of the sudden changed directions when finding out his son was Gay. And THAT is how this whole agends has gotten the legs it has. Apparently that's all it takes is to have one somewhere in the family and folks toss out ALL previously held beliefs BECAUSE otherwise they will be viewed as some kind of Hater, and that's just not the case. And for the record your referral to my thinking being " outdated " times don't change tool bag....people do!!! And as far as
" someone else's life bothering me " as stated many times before, I Do Not care what happens in the privacy of ones home, just don't legislate your sexual preference on the rest who do not see it the same.

I'm always curious when people say that being gay is a "choice"...

I can't say from personal experience whether its a choice or not, so I generally defer to the experts (for the record, the experts would be the people who do like screwing people of the same sex)... If they tell me it isn't a choice, why would I think I know more?

Further, I certainly don't have much choice in who I want to stick my d1ck in... I mean, sometimes they're blonde ore brunette... But they are definitely always female. I don't say to myself, " hey self... You should choose to be straight today".

Makes me wonder whether all these anti-gay "sexuality is a choice!" People are actually all bi and none of us ever noticed this.

See my post #23. I agree that a lot of these threads in the political forum are juvenile in their tone and content. I'm just as guilty as anyone else. If you are looking for someone to blame; I like to say that you can always find one by looking in the mirror.

Nah gene... I'm not playing the "thou doest protest too much" card. It simply could be a perspective issue. If they're all actually making a choice to have straight sex every time... Maybe from their perspective it is actually a choice.

It just doesn't make sense any other way... Otherwise their sexuality is definitely set in stone but other people's isn't.

Yeah but what kind of pasta do they like?