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Last post 7 years ago by DrafterX. 83 replies replies.
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Orlando shooting, politics as usual.
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dstieger Offline
#51 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 8:50 AM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Mattie B wrote:
Forgive me if this was mentioned somewhere else.



I can't get over the disgust I have for the democrats, that walked out during the moment of silence. I don't even know how that can be justified. Never have I seen a more distasteful act of disrespect for lives lost.
How can these folks be elected to represent US citizens?

At some point agendas must be replaced with humanity. We must get back on track if we have any hope of moving forward.

Protesting a moment of silence CANNOT be viewed as constructive.

Pray for our country!!!


I dunno, Mattie. I thought it was a clever move to make the point...their point that a 'moment of silence' is a smug reaction that accomplishes (and to most? means) absolutely nothing...but that congressional 'silence' is a big part of the problem.
I don't agree with their proposed fixes, but I had no problem with this symbolic 'gesture' of walking out
DrafterX Offline
#52 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 8:53 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,563
Bad example to set... Not talking
tailgater Offline
#53 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 8:59 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
Fair enough. there are 4 separate states which have passed or are trying to pass "religious freedom" laws, specifically allowing someone to simply ignore a standing law if it disagrees with their religion (I'm summarizing here, I'm sure there are some clauses etc).

Heck, tennessee was voting to make the bible the state book.

Every time an anti-abortion law pops up (and those seem to pop up very frequently, if not passed), the support of the law is largely based on biblical or religious ideas, not science. In Oklahoma, they literally said "god will take care of the economy" when fighting for an anti-abortion law.

Then there was the religious basis of the cases against coverage of contraception... I honestly can't remember if they were trying to pass a new law or dissolve an existing.


We all know that religion is used to support or condemn laws.
But I'm not hearing about laws that have been passed that have impacted you.

Surely you're not using speculative hyperbole?
And within the same post that you lambaste "conservatives" with a (miscalculated) math jab?

The horror.


Herfing
dstieger Offline
#54 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 9:02 AM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
the moment of silence ain't gonna do a whole hell of a lot for the victims or their loved ones....I suppose it might somehow make the representatives feel better...about something or other....what else might it possibly accomplish?...who could it possibly benefit.?

Fn congress....turn on cspan sometime....I'd estimate that 98 out of a 100 times that I check cspan, those arrogant **** are not doing ANYTHING the least bit productive related to legislating...but they can waste my taxpaying dollars spending time being 'silent'....I guess that's no less productive than anything else they do....f it
Mattie B Offline
#55 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 9:13 AM EST
Joined: 12-12-2005
Posts: 6,350
Dstieger,

I believe their moment of silence lasted all of 16 seconds.

I gather you don't understand the purpose of the moment of silence. If you did, you would never question who it's for or what it accomplishes.

See these moments were formed after the liberals banned public prayer. Like at a high school football game. When I was young, we prayed to keep all athletes safe. Now that's offensive to some.

So those 16 seconds was meant to pray for the families to feel the grace of God, and their suffering to ease.

These elected men chose those 16 seconds to make their agenda clear, instead of respecting those who were lost.




Sorry bud, that's a BIG deal to me
dstieger Offline
#56 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 9:31 AM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Ahhh...that does make a big difference....maybe they should have had that moment of silence LAST week and prayed that some nut job doesn't shoot dozens of innocents
Mattie B Offline
#57 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 9:37 AM EST
Joined: 12-12-2005
Posts: 6,350
Some of us have those moments on a daily basis.


Imagine how much better the world would be if we all did.
teedubbya Offline
#58 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 9:38 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
While moments of silence may have been pushed by Reagan in support of school prayer, they existed for centuries prior in formal and informal form IE they are not the property of either party or the result of either party.
DrafterX Offline
#59 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 9:56 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,563
Quiet You.. Mad
teedubbya Offline
#60 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 10:01 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I'm sorry
DrafterX Offline
#61 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 10:02 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,563
Laugh
bgz Offline
#62 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 10:43 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Ya, there's the whole terrorism thing, but I think that was just his way for him to mask his true motive.

I read a couple articles about this guy (cause they keep showing up everywhere).

Apparently this dude has been frequenting that gay bar for years and was a closet homo (might have even been a practicing one).

Some dude said he's been messaging him on some gay app for months.

That and apparently his dad was total anti-gay, so he would never get accepted by his dad.

It was probably going to come out that he was a homo, so he goes shoots up all his buddies to prevent that from happening in the name of islam... when in reality, he was just a coward.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#63 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 11:04 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
bgz wrote:
Ya, there's the whole terrorism thing, but I think that was just his way for him to mask his true motive.

I read a couple articles about this guy (cause they keep showing up everywhere).

Apparently this dude has been frequenting that gay bar for years and was a closet homo (might have even been a practicing one).

Some dude said he's been messaging him on some gay app for months.

That and apparently his dad was total anti-gay, so he would never get accepted by his dad.

It was probably going to come out that he was a homo, so he goes shoots up all his buddies to prevent that from happening in the name of islam... when in reality, he was just a coward.



Really starting to look that way... Probably would have been just another run of the mill, closeted homosexual suicide had radical Islam not been thrown into the mix...
victor809 Offline
#64 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 11:25 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Mattie B wrote:
Dstieger,

I believe their moment of silence lasted all of 16 seconds.

I gather you don't understand the purpose of the moment of silence. If you did, you would never question who it's for or what it accomplishes.

See these moments were formed after the liberals banned public prayer. Like at a high school football game. When I was young, we prayed to keep all athletes safe. Now that's offensive to some.

So those 16 seconds was meant to pray for the families to feel the grace of God, and their suffering to ease.

These elected men chose those 16 seconds to make their agenda clear, instead of respecting those who were lost.




Sorry bud, that's a BIG deal to me


Mattie, I respect that moments of silence, or prayer mean something to you. But you have to understand how someone who is requesting action could be frustrated and irritated that they only get "prayer".

Those politicians want an action. They got "We're going to sit here and think nice things to a got who, depending on your religion either doesn't exist, or specifically doesn't actually do anything on earth anyway". You know the whole joke about the dude trying to get away from the flood, and bypasses all the actual physical means to get away, because he's sure praying will get god to save him... at some point action is called for. (don't get me wrong, I don't actually want any action at this point, but one has to understand their point of view).

If I'm in a desert, dying of thirst and a guy comes by with a canteen of water, looks at me and says he's going to pray for my well-being while walking away... I'm going to think he's a d!ck. From the viewpoint of these politicians, the legislators have the means to implement some action (ie, create laws against AR-15s) but are choosing to simply "pray for the victims".... which does nothing.
Mattie B Offline
#65 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 11:47 AM EST
Joined: 12-12-2005
Posts: 6,350
Victor, I understand that you aren't a Christian man and a moment of silence means little to you. However, we are talking about 16 seconds. Is it too much to ask to show respect for such a short period??

Regardless, I'll entertain your thought that AR's need tighter control. Let me share how I feel about that. You can make any and every law you wish for gun control, and it won't stop criminals. You see criminals don't abide by laws. Regulations only penalize law abiding citizens.
To prove my point, look at cities that have the strictest gun laws......
Chicago
LA
DC
New York
Those are the cities with the highest gun crime rates.

So new gun legislation simply is NOT the cure for gun violence....IMHO.

If polices, in place currently, were practiced I think you would see some improvement.

I have heard the idea of minimum convictions for gun crimes. I am 100% on board with this. If you break the law, with a firearm, you serve a minimum of 10 years in prison. Penalties should be placed on violators, not law abiding citizens.


As far as a religious debate with you, I won't do it. My religion Is Faith based. If you have no Faith, I will never get you to understand my point.

But I do agree that God empowers us to help ourselves. Just like the saying goes..... Give the man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach him to fish, he eats a lifetime. I use Faith in God to guide me through the decisions of life.
victor809 Offline
#66 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 11:54 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
You missed my point Mattie. I don't want any gun laws... Don't try to convince me we shouldn't have them.

My point is that you have to understand how to an individual asking for action, a "moment of silence" is meaningless. I'm not looking to argue religion or gun laws, just that one should understand that to some people "thoughts and prayers" has exactly the same value as its physical weight. I'm guessing they usually sit respectfully through this stuff, but as a form of protest, they wanted to point out that a moment of silence does absolutely nothing, and from their point of view they have the power to actually do something.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#67 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 11:58 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,513
Wait...this is the same Legislative Branch that has done virtually nothing? And they walked out? Is it time for another recess?
teedubbya Offline
#68 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 12:01 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
A moment of silence is not necessarily a christian thing
Mattie B Offline
#69 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 12:03 PM EST
Joined: 12-12-2005
Posts: 6,350
I'm with you now. Didn't mean to muddy the waters.


I still disagree with their protest. The timing is inexcusable. The RIGHT/HUMANE thing to do would be honor the silence, then walk out.

It was an insult to those that lost loved ones, religion and to the dignity of holding office.

These are elected officials......representatives of us. They are there to do a job for us. They don't get to throw a fit and walk out like some college kid disagreeing with a professor.

There should be a higher level of professionalism.
DrafterX Offline
#70 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 12:03 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,563
Quiet You... Mad
bgz Offline
#71 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 12:04 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Banning AR style weapons is pointless, doesn't accomplish a damn thing.

A certain percentage of the population is going to go postal no matter what. I would actually guess that guns prevent a huge number of deaths from nut jobs because of their limited lethality.

If you ban guns, then they'll get more creative... and the more creative they get, the more devastating the outcome.

Not to mention, if the guns are banned, and you truly want to acquire one, you're going to get one no matter what... it's not like they're rare.
Mattie B Offline
#72 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 12:05 PM EST
Joined: 12-12-2005
Posts: 6,350
Is drafter telling me to hush???
teedubbya Offline
#73 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 12:10 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Mattie B wrote:
Is drafter telling me to hush???



yea he told me he hates you and stuff

I agree with you on the lack of respect from the dems though.
teedubbya Offline
#74 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 12:11 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
As for the moment of silence it is acceptable to some BECAUSE it is not a christian or denominational thing.
Mattie B Offline
#75 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 12:12 PM EST
Joined: 12-12-2005
Posts: 6,350
Dude we have to stop agreeing so much.



Folks are going to think we are BESTIES.
teedubbya Offline
#76 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 12:14 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Well you did touch my nipples that one time... I know it was an accident but we will always have that moment
DrMaddVibe Offline
#77 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 12:19 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,513
teedubbya wrote:
And DMV you are right they have hijacked the religion in the sense that the vast VAST majority of those practicing the religion completely disagree with them and know it has nothing to do with their religion. The harsh words I was hearing from their leaders in effect telling them they were going to hell was interesting but missed by many. They want is to live in fear and tear us apart. In that sense they are winning. They (the very small minority) can't hurt us in any real way unless we decide to hurt ourselves. They also want us to blame Islam. And we are doing as the wish.




Really hard to hear them...their silence is deafening. As I've said before, it's almost like they're all in on the scam. Let those commit the acts and then run to the shadow and say nothing. Don't outwardly condemn the actions.

You can find videos, articles and op ed with stuff like this all day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=xEMHKO5MC6c

If it's our "media" doing it, then you would almost expect an outpouring of denial. It's just not happening though. Incident after incident around the globe they are killing and they grow bolder with each and every attack.

You happen to catch the new London mayor say no women in bikinis will be in ads posted around town.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/londons-first-muslim-mayor-bans-body-shaming-billboards-with-women-in-bikinis/

Talk about about face from what he said he was going to do, eh?
teedubbya Offline
#78 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 12:28 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I was working from home and had CNN on in the background. Muslim leaders were all over condemning it and there was a massive press conference with multiple leaders from multiple states. One of them clearly called out ISIS, told them they were not Muslims and that they would burn in hell (I'm paraphrasing). it caught my attention because it mirrored what I hear during our meetings (partially organized by my church) with the various religious leaders from most faiths in my area and was the opposite of what I hear in here. It was blunt, it was loud and it was on all the main outlets.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#79 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 12:34 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,513
Just did a search...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/14/living/orlando-muslims-statement/index.html

This is what you heard?
teedubbya Offline
#80 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 12:43 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
No it was a live press conference ... this wasn't it It was multiple folks speaking and not just one statement. There was one that made it political and was a douche but the others were pretty decent. I think it was live on a few cable news networks
DrMaddVibe Offline
#81 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 1:11 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,513
teedubbya wrote:
No it was a live press conference ... this wasn't it It was multiple folks speaking and not just one statement. There was one that made it political and was a douche but the others were pretty decent. I think it was live on a few cable news networks



I stopped watching network news after the divorce. I get the info from the web, when I want it on what I want. I stay pretty current. After more than a decade of coming home to multiple tvs blaring FoxNews and having to hear the hourly updates on how Timmy is in a well in AZ and we all have to do something...I unplugged.

Not that I don't believe you...it's just something that I wish was covered more...that one I posted...read it. Even after all that...that POS had hatred in his heart and justified it behind his Koran.
Stinkdyr Offline
#82 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 3:55 PM EST
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
DrMaddVibe wrote:
......... Even after all that...that POS had hatred in his heart and justified it behind his Koran.



Korans kill people. Ban them.

Herfing
DrafterX Offline
#83 Posted: Wed, Jun 15 2016, 3:59 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,563
I know a couple Koran dudes... Mellow
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