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Last post 6 years ago by Speyside. 97 replies replies.
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teedubbya Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Yea I don’t mean any disrespect. I didn’t think about it.
frankj1 Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,296
truthfully, I was clicking in and out with every new post and didn't realize it til just a minute ago...obviously no harm intended nor committed.
just sort of bizarre the way it naturally flowed.
DrafterX Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,601
Didn't think about it either.. sorry Frank.. Sad
frankj1 Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,296
William, for real, I'm not disturbed...it just was so eerie how normal it seemed.
frankj1 Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,296
maybe we really are getting numbed to it.
Speyside Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Frank, I think it is a natural reaction to become numb to the carnage. If not how could we possibly continue on. The pain would be unbearable. We talk about it, we argue about it, we joke about it, and so on. Perhaps there are an exception or two here, but as a whole we care deeply. The world we know now is so different than the one we grew up in. I for one simply can not comprehend the lack of value that so many have for life. I don't see an obvious answer to why so many monsters walk among us.
frankj1 Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,296
agree, Allen
teedubbya Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I’m not numb to it. There is truth to it’s not the gun it’s the person. I’m for some responsible gun control but not for going overboard.

In this case we were discussing a responsible person buying a .22lr that will never be pointed at a human empty let alone loaded.

I transitioned the thread over by making fun of the stupid cars kill more people argument while maintaining that while I find that logic absurdly dumb, I’m not for banning guns.
teedubbya Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
That said I’m respectful that if some find this a thread about kids that were just killed rather than another gun control thread then I’ll stop talking about this I’m here. By not thinking about it I meant I was thinking less of the humans involved and more the issue. And I was intentional in my first post but not in the subsequent posts. In those I was thinking more about my purchase. Mindless.
frankj1 Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,296
and now you're mindful.

this lib is oddly in agreement with your (wide?) stance on gun control...but it is an issue of human safety from people who should never touch guns.

To deny any discussion is endangering everyone, even folks against gun control laws.

Hence my agreement on some responsible legislation...whatever that may be after open and real talk.
DrafterX Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,601
And what would that be..?? Huh
delta1 Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,836
Inured...we've become inured...


Shootings with multiple victims have become so commonplace, the media will scoff at anything less than 20...wanna get everybody's attention?...blast at least 20...

we were discussing the homeless problem in CA around the dinner table, and everybody agreed that a large percentage of homeless were mostly mentally unstable who didn't want shelter or to reintegrate into society...the cons in the discussion said that we taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for services for homeless people...that's when I said that we can make a lot of money that can be re-invested into mental health services for homeless by selling licenses to kill homeless people...brought the conversation to a screeching halt...daughter and SIL thought I had lost my mind...
frankj1 Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,296
#61

I dunno. No one will talk openly. It's take them all vs no restrictions and that has us with nuts shooting kids.

of course you should have whatever you want. but not everyone should. I am a lib after all, and I am saying guns, but have some brains with them.
teedubbya Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I will say I don’t want a registry. Our government isn’t trustworthy. DACA folks prolly regret registering. They were made a promise but our promises are only as good as the political winds.
delta1 Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,836
#63

frank, you and I have a lot in common, prolly brother's from another mother, but I firmly believe that we libs have lost the debate on gun control...

I've given up advocating that position...we cannot convince those on the pro-gun side that any restrictions are reasonable... they are dead serious...and they own more guns...WAY more guns...

I have reservations about the number of guns my SIL owns, and he plans to buy more...he keeps a loaded Glock in his bedroom and practices what he'd do when a home invader charges up the stairs...my grand-daughter sleeps in the next room and will soon be old enough to wander around...my SIL is a well-balanced and clear-headed person...

our divided political culture just reinforces the idea that there are hateful hurtful people just around the corner...I've lived for nearly 7 decades, sometimes in sketchy neighborhoods, and have never had a home invasion (burglarized three times), nor have I known anyone personally who has been a victim of a home invasion...
frankj1 Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,296
teedubbya wrote:
I will say I don’t want a registry. Our government isn’t trustworthy. DACA folks prolly regret registering. They were made a promise but our promises are only as good as the political winds.

my brilliant father, also a lib from a different era, refused to register a German pistol that could not be fired that he brought back from WWII.

I was a kid and asked why he wouldn't do as the town asked since they said it was just to know which houses had guns in case of an emergency.

He said it was to prevent them from knowing which houses had guns in case the gov ever went evil. Eventually I understood but in 1963 I was only 10.
frankj1 Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,296
delta1 wrote:
#63

frank, you and I have a lot in common, prolly brother's from another mother, but I firmly believe that we libs have lost the debate on gun control...

I've given up advocating that position...we cannot convince those on the pro-gun side that any restrictions are reasonable... they are dead serious...and they own more guns...WAY more guns...

I have reservations about the number of guns my SIL owns, and he plans to buy more...he keeps a loaded Glock in his bedroom and practices what he'd do when a home invader charges up the stairs...my grand-daughter sleeps in the next room and will soon be old enough to wander around...my SIL is a well-balanced and clear-headed person...

our divided political culture just reinforces the idea that there are hateful hurtful people just around the corner...I've lived for nearly 7 decades, sometimes in sketchy neighborhoods, and have never had a home invasion (burglarized three times), nor have I known anyone personally who has been a victim of a home invasion...

if you make sense to me, we are doomed.

you want half my tuna sammich?
delta1 Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,836
hah...chips on the side, please...
delta1 Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,836
...and your father musta had way more kids than you...
frankj1 Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,296
delta1 wrote:
...and your father musta had way more kids than you...

none that he knew of
delta1 Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,836
just my way of saying that his philosophy of not trusting the government was widespread among his generation and background...and has been passed on to their off-spring...
frankj1 Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,296
delta1 wrote:
just my way of saying that his philosophy of not trusting the government was widespread among his generation and background...and has been passed on to their off-spring...

his view was a bit complex, and it suits me just fine...he was quite liberal but wanted to make sure there was always protection from a potential overreach by even a government he liked.
Speyside Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Victor concerned about kids dying.
Speyside Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I'm surprised Victor even commented on it.
HuckFinn Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 07-10-2017
Posts: 2,044
According to the NY TIMES the vast majority of Americans support:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/05/upshot/how-to-reduce-mass-shooting-deaths-experts-say-these-gun-laws-could-help.html

Bar sales to all violent criminals
Semiautomatic gun ban
High-capacity magazine ban
Universal checks for gun buyers
Universal checks for ammo buyers
Bar sales to people deemed dangerous by mental health provider
Bar sales to convicted stalkers
Require gun licenses
Ammo purchase limit
Centralized record of gun sales

Report lost or stolen guns
3-day waiting period
Gun purchase limit
Workplace weapons ban
School weapons ban
Guns that microstamp bullets
Require gun safes
Require safety training
Fingerprint gun owners
bgz Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Well, ny times would say that... Their pool of most Americans was probably passing by their office. I'm sure if they took the poll in AZ or tx, the results would have been drastically different. With the most common answer simply lifting up the shirt so they could see what was in the waistband.
DrafterX Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,601
Gun owners wouldn't support most of the list... Most Americans own guns... No way a 'vast majority' supports this... Not talking
Phil222 Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
HuckFinn wrote:
Bar sales to people deemed dangerous by mental health provider


Some of that list is reasonable in my opinion, while some is not. Take this quote for example. ^

What will happen is many people with serious mental health problems will not seek help for fear of losing their right to own a firearm.

Guns are not the only way to kill people, and just because we make something illegal doesn't mean it will solve the problem. That has failed to work many times in our history. Look at the war on drugs in this country...as long as there is a supply and demand, guns will always find there way onto our streets.

If people really wanted to make a change in this area, then attack the problem from the top down and not the bottom up. Bottom up never works...just my opinion on the subject.
banderl Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
DrafterX wrote:
Gun owners wouldn't support most of the list... Most Americans own guns... No way a 'vast majority' supports this... Not talking



Most Americans do not own guns.

Film at 10
delta1 Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,836
delta1 wrote:
Inured...we've become inured...


Shootings with multiple victims have become so commonplace, the media will scoff at anything less than 20...wanna get everybody's attention?...blast at least 20...

we were discussing the homeless problem in CA around the dinner table, and everybody agreed that a large percentage of homeless were mostly mentally unstable who didn't want shelter or to reintegrate into society...the cons in the discussion said that we taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for services for homeless people...that's when I said that we can make a lot of money that can be re-invested into mental health services for homeless by selling licenses to kill homeless people...brought the conversation to a screeching halt...daughter and SIL thought I had lost my mind...



see...another one...only 5 killed...any splashy "breaking news"? ... any mention here? (crickets)...inured...I got a news update from Smart on my phone...only mention I found on internet is on Daily Beast...



https://www.thedailybeast.com/five-killed-in-pennsylvania-mass-shooting
DrafterX Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,601
This wasn't a random shooting.. tragic yes but the shooter knew his targets.. it's being called a domestic dispute.. Mellow
victor809 Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Speyside wrote:
I'm surprised Victor even commented on it.


Just amusing myself with dead kids.


Surprised no one had started a "thoughts and prayers" thread... maybe they realized they don't actually do anything.
Brewha Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,207
DrafterX wrote:
This wasn't a random shooting.. tragic yes but the shooter knew his targets.. it's being called a domestic dispute.. Mellow

True, true.

A random shooting is like when I roll the target out to 25 yards.

At least that is what the range officer says.....
delta1 Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,836
DrafterX wrote:
This wasn't a random shooting.. tragic yes but the shooter knew his targets.. it's being called a domestic dispute.. Mellow



It IS a mass shooting, no? Four victims and the shooter...

this type of killing used to be big news...seems that they aren't anymore...they're so common now, like "dog bites man" stories, they don't warrant much attention...


on the other hand, do something wacko, like have 13 kids and keep them starved and ignorant and locked up in a filthy house...now that's national news...
victor809 Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
delta1 wrote:

on the other hand, do something wacko, like have 13 kids and keep them starved and ignorant and locked up in a filthy house...now that's national news...


.... so you're saying I SHOULD have children?
Buckwheat Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
DrafterX wrote:
One of the reporters who raced to a Kentucky high school on Tuesday after reports that shots had been fired was likely not prepared for what she found out at the scene.


The suspect, a 15-year-old boy, was her son, the Louisville Courier-Journal reported.

The shooting in Benton, which left two students dead and 21 injured, rocked the close-knit community of about 4,500 in southwestern Kentucky.

The mother and other family members declined to comment, the report said.

Authorities have still not announced the suspect's motive.

'Cultural problem'


As school shootings become more commonplace, debates are raging in Kentucky and state legislatures nationwide about how to prevent them.

Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin, a Republican and social conservative, has made it clear that he won't sign laws that restrict guns.

Bevin instead called on Americans to "wake up," recognize that school shootings are a "cultural problem,” and to look at the “root causes.”

"Our culture is crumbling from within," he said.

Bevin said the desensitization to death and killing is coming at an "extraordinary price."

"We can't celebrate death in video games, celebrate death in TV shows, celebrate death in movies, celebrate death in musical lyrics and remove any sense of morality and sense of higher authority and then expect that things like this are not going to happen," he said.




Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin, seated, signs a prayer proclama
Just hours after the shooting, his Republican colleague, state Sen. Steve West, rushed to file a bill to put more guns in schools.

His legislation would let local districts hire armed marshals to patrol public schools, make citizen's arrests and protect people from "imminent death or serious physical injury."

Marshals wouldn't have to be police officers, but school district employees in good standing who have a license to carry concealed weapons.

West's bill is one of at least two in the state that would allow more guns into Kentucky's public schools and college campuses. They reflect a sentiment that has found bipartisan support.

"We need armed officers in every school in Kentucky. That is a small price to pay if it saves one child's life," state Sen. Ray Jones, a Democrat, said.

In the conservative state where politicians routinely pose in ads with guns, the National Rifle Association has an outsized influence in many state elections and the resulting gun policy debates in those legislatures.

Some Democrats, however, believe the push for more guns is misplaced.

Democratic Rep. Attica Scott from Louisville said she is "definitely an advocate for gun safety and to me more guns is not the answer to gun violence."

Scott has filed legislation that would ban those convicted of hate crimes from carrying a gun and let local governments pass laws requiring gun sellers to use "responsible business practices."

"We are sending prayers and thoughts to kids who are clinging to the last bit of faith they have in the system of government that is supposed to keep them safe."

Meanwhile, Democratic Rep. Jim Wayne of Louisville has filed a bill that would make it a crime for adults to "recklessly" store a gun without a trigger lock, a measure aimed at preventing children and teenagers from obtaining access to their parents' guns.


Film at 11... Pray


I live in Kentucky and Bevin has offered nothing but hollow prayers as the answer to everything. He is a kook and needs to go along with Cecil the turtle. fog
victor809 Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
delta1 wrote:
It IS a mass shooting, no? Four victims and the shooter...

this type of killing used to be big news...seems that they aren't anymore...they're so common now, like "dog bites man" stories, they don't warrant much attention...


on the other hand, do something wacko, like have 13 kids and keep them starved and ignorant and locked up in a filthy house...now that's national news...



I was thinking about this.
I'm just guessing here... maybe one of the targets wasn't random.... but do we think the shooter really wanted to kill all 4 when they started their day? I mean... maybe they wanted to go kill person A.... but just had to kill B, C and D because they were there.

Doesn't that kinda make it a random shooting for the 3 people who were not the primary target?
DrafterX Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,601
They were witnesses... They had to go.. random witnesses maybe but not targets.. Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
It’s no different than metaphorically what is happening to anyone and everyone who has ever lead or participated in investigating Trump.
DrafterX Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,601
Trump has a list too..?? Huh
teedubbya Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Yea but he just fires them. He doesn’t really kill them yet.
frankj1 Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,296
DrafterX wrote:
They were witnesses... They had to go.. random witnesses maybe but not targets.. Mellow

just heard from Rhode Island...

say no more.
RMAN4443 Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
frankj1 wrote:
just heard from Rhode Island...

say no more. Wink wink nudge nudge

FIFY Beer
teedubbya Offline
#94 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Rhode Island Red? I love him and the 23 skeedoo
teedubbya Offline
#95 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvn9re
DrafterX Offline
#96 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,601
Sorry Frank... Sad
Speyside Offline
#97 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I thought that usually meant Jersey.
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