rfenst wrote:Ben, I took logic1 and Logic2 at the University of Michigan. It was 100% symbolic set theory. The only time it wasn't was when someone didn't get it- and then the professor would used words (in the symbolic format) to show that the premise(s) undisputedly lead to the conclusion. We never argued any issues in class. That isn't what it was about.. Very interesting. No regrets here.
Also, made both my kids take logic early in college and they both think it was one of the most important analytical courses they regularly still use to succeed in the "real world."
For example, when my son is at work and he hears an argument he doesn't believe leads to the proper conclusion. He sometimes maps the argument out in symbols and then converts it analogous words to disprove management's conclusion from the stated premise(s), is wrong.
Very good! I only took one logic class (philosophy). So my analogy was more from a programmer's perpective.
I hear you on a wrong premise... but what happens when your axioms are wrong. Would you believe they were wrong if there was experimental evidence to the contrary?
If you build a premise upon wrong axioms... how would you know if it was true or not?
That's more the concept I'm arguing here without getting into it too deep. and I'm trying to argue it to someone who shouldn't be going at anyone with "logic".
For instance... he's insistant on a universal truth when we know from experiments... it's simply not true.
There is no universal concept of now (fact)
What happens next can only be described with probability densities at the quantum level (fact)
And it's possible for non local systems to measure different facts from a different system (recently proven).
Contrary to what Bucky says... you don't have to be a working high energy particle phd candidate or greater physicist to understand the concepts of this stuff... he would have everyone believe that because the quantum doesn't jive with his beliefs.
You don't even need to know math to understand the general concepts (though it helps).
Just look up the quantum eraser...
If that's not enough to make you go wtf, I don't know what will.
I apologize in advance if anyone gets stuck in the rabbit hole.
Again... Bucky is wrong... you can be a complete dumb sh*t and still appreciate this stuff... please, look it up.