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I sat down at my computer a few minutes ago, clipped and lit a wonderful La Aurora that was recently gifted to me by a friend I met on this board ... in starting my post, I saw where there has been work done already today ... one of our number has got the jump on things and has successfully identified and clearly illustrated, the very problem I'm posting this to address ...

A recent posting on the Cbid board noted the number of guys who were “Missing in Action” lately and named several folks from whom we’ve seen very little in recent months … far more than those named have been missing and I’ve got a pretty good idea why that’s true … in verifying my thoughts, I wrote personal e-mails to many of them and their responses confirmed my thinking …

The problem, simply stated, is the unpleasantness that we’ve seen all too much of on the boards in recent months … since the closure of that bulletin board on another site that we won’t name, but everyone knows the two initial name of, there’s been an overwhelming influx of new faces on Cbid … while nothing is wrong with new people coming on board, many of the refugees from the closed board brought with them concepts of what was normal on cigar BBs that did not exist on Cbid … and the nature of their posts reflect those (to us) alien concepts.

Other newbies and a few of our old regulars have all too willingly joined on those threads and have lowered the tone here .. we see an overwhelming amount of acrimony and personal invective that were seldom if ever seen here before … some of what has been posted has an almost juvenile “writing on the restroom walls nature about it, some a silly and inane quality and some a very parsimonious nature …

Many of our regulars, daunted by the BS, have taken the course of least resistance and have either joined other boards or simply stopped participating altogether … not many of us have the time and energy to become deputy lords of discipline and “slim-slap” the offenders.

Cbid has always been a family … not necessarily one in which all members got along all the time or saw eye-to-eye on every issue … far from it … but with a rare exception or two, it has never sunk to a personal level in which attacks on one another were seen. Sure, there has been a bit of sometimes frustrating and annoying thread-jacking, but that too has increased exponentially in recent times.

The good folks at CI/CB are naturally reluctant to come down too hard on offenders … (A) because they ARE good folks and (B) because they are in business and the offenders are their customers … with a few exceptions in which offenders have gone far over the limits, few are banished from the site … not many threads are deleted from the board, although there are quite a significant number that by the rules could be.

There’ve been more threads censored and deleted in the past 60 days than I can remember happening in the two years that preceded them … and some of those whose threads have been deleted or censored are actually taking pride in that having happened as though it were a merit badge of some sort …

ENOUGH of that … !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There are a great number of us that want that to stop and stop for good … we’re sick and tired of all the dis-harmony and 7th grade bathroom silliness … we want a forum in which cigars and other topics can be discussed or even debated in a REASONABLE and CIVIL manner … we want a forum in which the “conversation” is kept within the bounds it would be kept if we were all in a large room and talking face to face …

I can’t count the number of times I’ve said it before, but the best example of what I’m talking about can be found in the relationship that I and Rickamaven enjoy … no two people could have more divergent political opinions, but no two people could have a warmer, friendlier and more cordial relationship than the two of us enjoy. We each have high respect for the other and despite deep differences in opinion, have kept all of our exchanges on a high-toned plane … there is no acrimony whatever.

We want to see all the old faces return … we want to see all the new faces remain and join those of us who’ve been around in the months and years before the closure of that other board. We want to see those whose concept of a BB is to slam one another and engage in juvenile behavior to go elsewhere … there are plenty of other boards where that sort of thing is prevalent and well-tolerated …

To that end, we will not engage in this sort of behavior … we will NOT respond to these sorts of rantings … we will isolate them and ignore them and leave them all alone … we will let them be seen for what they are… they will NOT be “Slim-slapped”, either by Slim or by a deputy … there will be NO response whatsoever to posts of this sort ... let me repeat that last ... there will be NO response to provocation whatsoever on these boards ... the provocateurs will be completely isolated and ignored as if they did not exist.

We will reclaim our board and will be only too happy to see the return of those members who’ve been Missing in Action and let those who don’t yet know them see firsthand, what an extreme pleasure a really good cigar BB CAN be …

Good point, good point Steve, none of this hostility like say, "you truly are pathetic", it would be nice not to have that kind of acrimony. Unless the ends justify the means only in some cases? I would think it would be much better if there were no hostility. That means from everyone. Not just the folks you don't like. Food for thought...

Steve ... it's good to see your original post, the way you intended it to be presented and read by everyone ... and in the proper context.

I agree 110% ... and it's not in my best interests to have to take on the role of the so-called 'Lord of Discipline' and 'Slim-Slap' those who don't have a clue. It would be such a relief if I didn't have to go there ...

I'm willing to do my part ... and I just hope others here will have the courage to make a change for the better on these forums also.

Time will tell ... who shall succeed, and who shall fail.

Amen Brother!

I have been on these boards for about two years and have never seen them in such a hostile condition. I am under the impression we are all here to enjoy the company of those who enjoy cigars and trade occasionally. Lately, I have been seeing one name in the middle of some argument trying to one-up the next person that has been insulted over and over. Yes it is true that if one is not interested in what someone has to say then don't read it. But why do we all have to be subjected to trash talking ego based conflict. Keep it up R and there will be few left in which one may converse. I have always been more in the sidelines and I myself am fairly conservative but until the bridge burning ends I will seldomly check in. maybe just trades. Also, since this is a read only board the "well then don't read it " is impossible.

I count Steve and monay others on this board as friends. They have come to my aid when my son and most of his possesions and his whole cigar collection were stolen. They have offered advice, traded information and cigars. I have sent opinions on the boards, love bombs, pool cigars, and "check this out" smokes and received the same in the mail. I have tried to help a couple of people I met here with issues of faith they emailed about (I am also a Pastor.) I found this to be a comfortable, welcoming forum. Some of that began to "pass away" as the board grew recently and took a different tone. It was easier to "rise above it" by my absence, and life was busy enough already. I miss what once was. I agree completely with Steve and will "rise above" any negative postings -- but I intend to be "present" rather than "absent" once again!

Mike Gardner (iquester)

The voice of reason in the wilderness. Thanks
Steve.

Writing as a person who has visited the cigar BBSs for many years, since they were simple list-serves, what has happened at this forum prevails at, virtually, every cigar BBS today. Regretfully, there are those who will use any open forum to spew rather than contribute. Based on my visits to the CBid forum, the problem, here, is still a small one. The suggestion by Steve, above, to ignore those posters is the only way to deal with them effectively, unless the owner of the forum elects to ban them, and lose a customer.

Agree 110% SteveS. It remains to be seen how it will all play out, but I'll do my part in trying to keep these threads the way the were intended to be--cigar related where it is supposed to be cigar related and that goes for the intent of the other boards as well.

Cudos to all that have this as their goal as well.

"Words of wisdom, Lloyd... words of wisdom..."

Low

I know this is turning into a free speech vs. politeness conflict, but I'll put my 2 cents in.

I never visit the Misc board because it is all political battling, etc, and I am here to learn about cigars. I seldom visit the Picture post because it is mostly invisible cars and bikes and dogs, etc. I don’t have enough free time in the day to mess with that.

However, I will continue to visit the Trades and cigar related forums because I love cigars and I need the vast amount of intellectual resources you all possess. I can ignore those who jump into strings of cigars they hate just to say they hate them, as opposed to providing anything useful. I can read past the personal attacks between individuals to find the topic related information.

I’ve only met one person from this board and he is a decent person, as I assume all of you are. I hope to meet many of you personally in the years to come. If I may use E-Chick as the example of what is needed, since she posted so well above. I have seen her post for prayers. I have seen her post her anger. And.. I have seen her good advice and information on cigars. She is choosing to police herself and that is commendable.

If others also choose to police themselves, then the tone here would become more like what Steve is looking for. Else, it becomes an even bigger battle ground between the “free speech” and the “politeness” crowds.

I vote for politeness with a little bit of joviality.

My free speech 2-cents
Dan

Steve,

Well Said - My Brother - Well Said!!

Mike,

Welcome back! Good to have you back!

I too agree with E-chick. I 'Normally' do not initiate a flame but will retaliate if offended! I too am here to broaden my knowledge of cigars and accessories.

Regards,


B

Dual post to the Miscellaneous Board.

Steve's intent is a good one to recover a bit of civility to the boards which are useful and fun for many. Having observed the deterioration of conduct of too many posters on the now-defunct JR Cigars BB it is a real concern to me where this board could be headed.

I am not an oldtimer on this board but have been around for awhile and post somewhat infrequently. It would probably be more often if the attitude and style of some was a bit less caustic. I don't mind differing points of view at all and a correction if I am mistaken with a point put forth, just be civil about it.

I for one am a wholehearted supporter of Steve's idea here and compliment him for taking the lead.

Grizzled.Old.Board.Purest

JustDanD's post is the only one here that makes any sense at all. People are doing a lot of crying about their feelings being hurt on the Misc board? Then why are they on the Misc board? If they want to talk Cigars, whineot talk cigars on the Cigar board? I don't see any hostility there? Save the self righteous Slim who should slap himself and leave others alone. People are going off the deep end here on both sides... Yes, it gets pretty heated on the Misc board, and occasionally on the Pic board. WTF? Here's an idea, "don't click the hyper link" and the post won't appear on your screen. If you're so bothered by the fact that the post, or the poster "exist", perhaps some introspection is required on your own part? Steve? Keep to the path, stay off the moors... Keep to the Cigar board. And for old timers? Get over yourselves, it's just a cigar bulletin board. Geesch! You’d think this was the UN and you were debating the fate of the world or something.

Post and read about cigars, post and read about trades. Otherwise, you may get offended, and no one wants that to happen. And try not to assume that you’re so much better than the next guy, or so much smarter (no names because Slim might be offended), simply live and let live. If it bothers you, count to 5, drink some water do some calisthenics, but don’t berate people, belittle them, correct them or otherwise “slap” them. Live and let live, isn’t that what the original poster was trying to say? With the exception of the fact that he was interested only in life for some, not all…

Grizzled.Old.Board.Purest

you are in a room with a bunch of guys.

you are all smoking cigars and drinking booze, beer, coffee.

you are talking about this and that, mostly about women you had, a deer that got away, the flat you had on the freeway,and if you are of the older generation, diabetes, cholestral reducing drugs, and your last blood work.

someone approaches your group and listens for a few moments and speaks.

he tells one of the guys in the group that had been chatting, that he is wrong about something. the guy in the group responds with, "huh" or "no i'm not" or "fu*k off stranger we were talking amongst ourselves." or "sit down and light up. haven't seen you before."

the stranger sits down, lights up and asks some questions to get the tone of the group.

do they tell dirty jokes? do they tell racial jokes? do they discuss politics? are they left wingers in those discussions or are they a mixture of differing viewpoints about how the country should be run? do they all talk together of do they listen while one of them is speaking? what is their language, polite, shouting at each other, hand signals, insulting.

the stranger gets the feel of the group and either wanders away or he likes their language and says his piece using the language of the group.

they meet daily, weekly, monthly and the next time they get togther there are no strangers, just a one person larger group.

and that his how the group grows one by one. they all disagree with each other about cigar wrappers, cello on or off, politics, sports teams, cigar cutters, and pretty much everything to some extent.

what they have in common is their language, not their viewpoint.

heh, spoken like a true statesman Rick. And Mr. Whelmie. Good points. Good points indeed. I rise in support (rise) of cordial conversation. Not McCarthyism, certainly not elitism. Simply as you’ve stated, common interests, and respectful presentation of differing view points. With the understanding of course, that from time to time (since this is not a perfect world) their may be the occasional “incident”. As long as that is the exception and not the rule, it shouldn’t be that big a deal (sob story). If it is the norm, then arguably some may have a point, however if it is not, then the more sensitive among us need to cowboy up and stop whining. How’s that? Please note, "occasional" and "exception".

(Maybe we should all change our names)

My first post in awhile:
CigarBid is like a city. In a small city you know everyone’s name and there is a real sense of community. You also feel comfortable talking to all your neighbors and feel safe leaving your doors unlocked. Once it becomes popular you get the problems associated with the “Big City”. You get the “Riff Raff” that moves in. You tend to socialize less, interact with your neighbors you don't know less and the “community feel is lost” There are ways to battle this but the community as a whole must work at it.
If you do nothing it gets worse and you look for a new place to live. There must be two things present for this to work 1) Acceptance of new people and their ideas into the community.
2) Minimum standards of conduct that is adhered to by all. (This must be self policing and firm).
GT

Nice work Steve

Mr. Labonte, spoken like a true bass player! Good points, and others as well. Good points. The keys here, avoid excessive abuse and patronizing, and also show some basic respect, that also implies avoiding "elitism", i.e., try not to correct people’s spelling, insult their cigar knowledge, and abrade them harshly for making “nubie mistakes”, etc…

It all goes back to who’s mud is bad mud. Some people despise and deride mud from another’s orifice, however they willingly sling their own or their so-called friends with little consideration to the thought that others may find it “muddy”. To be effective, disarmament must not be unilateral or it leads to dismemberment.

I've been reading these boards for awhile now and have even posted a few times. I agree with Steve. This should be a place that is enjoyable to come to. One should have high expectations about the topic and the people that he/she will be communicating with. It is our choice to read these posts. This initial choice was made (by me) because of the subjects and the quality of the "conversations" that I observed while lurking about for a few months. There are some truly fine people on this board and if they follow Steve's suggestion of ignoring the offensive then I believe the board will eventually win out. Don't fan a flame it just will burn you faster. Thanks.

Well said, justdand and gtofmurphy...as a man named ice-cube once said, "chicaddy check yo self before you wreck yo self...I also once heard in an AA meeting, "take what you need and leave the rest" among a sea of BS there are even stronger voices of reason here. -Kai

Just got back from Vegas (where I got to meet x!). Steve, as always, is right and I for one will take his advice to heart.

Thanks for the post Steve.

SteveS:
First of all, my apologies for my delay to your wonderful post...I've had a bit of a setback lately.
I agree wholeheartedly in your statements as you probably already know. I can only hope that this forum can be restored to the quality that originally existed when I started a couple of years ago. This quality that separates this forum from others was centered on intellect, courtesy and respect for it's members. Though I haven't met any member face to face, I feel that I established some good friendships which makes cigar smokers truly special. I know I have broaden my knowledge of cigars through the help of certain members and I hope I was able to also contribute.
After reviewing the previous post replies above, it seems that most of the members agree. It's good to see some of those MIA's return to the forum, and hopefully, this forum can be restored to it's original quality.

Ed