maybe not this year or next, but soon we have to decide how much longer we should continue to support coal and oil.
I'm not talking about crushing thousands of families overnight, but at some point we have to get people who normally would be working in those industries redirected...

It's a painful concept yet we've faced it before in other industries in the last 3 or 4 decades. Delaying the inevitable will be worse in the long run. Planning needs to start.

Who's "we"? You talk like a commie collectivist. Maybe in the process of crushing them they could forcibly retrained as coders in the FEMA re-education camps under the direction of the Reptilian central planners in D.C. AOC can be commissar.
Some of you proles are scary, your crazy belief that central planners in government and bureaucracy are the least bit competent and can efficiently mold society, the economy and technology to your hearts desire is nuts!

So who exactly is "we" and after you crush the non-politically correct industries, what do have to replace them with, have you got a ready made replacement invented for those energy sources that is as cheap, clean, efficient and affordable?
I know Wokie Joe has a plan, he'll dictate by executive order 500,000 EV charging stations into existence for cars that won't exist or the ones only rich people can afford. (with a government subsidy of course) That'll fix it. No idea where the clean and cheap electricity will come from, but hey he'll think of something.

Oh wait, "Delaying the inevitable will be worse in the long run", I've heard that before, didn't AOC say that? If we don't implement the "Green New Deal" immediately, we're all dead in 10 years? Yep, that's what the bartender said.
I remember the "Peak Oil" scare too. What was that 20-25 years ago or something? Yep oil reserves are almost all gone, no more to be found they said, if gubment central planners don't do something we're all screwed.

True... true... even Louie-dog doesn't like him..

Oh yeah, that reminds me... you're an idiot.

code please

Your code is 🦜🦜🦜🦎🦎🦎🦜🦜🦜

I think my feelings might be hurt. I’ll check in on that and get back to y’all later

You're an idiot.

I got one, DrafterX. He doesn't care about Native land.

Drafter is an Apple.

BGZ hates the Ute. They want economic progress through their black gold and all they got from Biden was a poison worm filled apple.

I've got some bigly time questions...

Is the apple poison or the worms? Cuz I've seen poisoned apples before... it's a real thing... you take an apple, add poison - BAM - you got your poisoned apple...

but poison worms? Did you mean poisoned or poisonous maybe?

Poisonous i could see... micro evolution and such, over time they develop a toxic defense mechanism... probably have to be in a southeast Asian jungle of some sort though... that's where most toxic land dwelling creatures seem to reside...

how you would get them to develop an appetite for apples, a fruit they will have never encountered in their lives, I haven't the faintest of notions... and your poisonous worm apple is "filled"... not just like one or two...

At this point you're basically talking about training a fleet of Opisthopora's... and not just Opisthopora's, but toxic ones... and you're not getting bit? You have an antidote or just specialized training or something?

Ya know what, there's just too many questions for me, personally, at this point in time, to consider seriously investing in this... I think you've got a good product idea, but not a great product...

my personal advice - and I think you're gonna get this from a lot of other potential investors too - go back to the shop, simplify your product, and then perfect what you have...

I'm not gonna sit here and rework your product for free, but maybe start with something less finicky than apples - repurposed plastic Easter eggs... and maybe go with fire ants... they're easily obtainable at a local level... it's not poison but it still inflicts some damage...

Well look at that, I guess I am gonna sit here and rework your product for free... you're welcome...

OK, you do that OP.
BTW, there are poison worms.
https://www.cracked.com/article_19988_the-5-most-nightmarish-worms-planet.html

I think the ragworm has a strong resemblance to Pelosi.

You guys sure hate apples more than bgz does

Can anyone answer my question:

What percentage of U.S. oil consumption would the pipeline have provided once it was up and running?

98. So
Me thing or other

"we" does not include you, don't worry.

the rest is just too stupid.

the thing is I'll never support in a discussion what you determine were all my thoughts, and to be honest, you always say the same one note when you assume you speak for me.
That's where the stupid comes in. You hear nothing because you know all, including what others believe. The sad part is, as I have said here more than once, that you are not stupid, I believe I said quite bright recently, which makes it more disappointing because you think you are omniscient, have stopped learning, have zero tolerance for what might be smarter due to dogma, and are limited to griping while doing absolutely nothing to move the needle toward your causes because you see it as hopeless! Around here, we call that being a quitter.

I'm glad that some places like the Pacific Legal Foundation do a few things from which all of us may benefit. They are more convincing (not about everything) through action than you are through insults.

Anyhoo, I didn't suggest who nor how the shift from older-soon-to-become-antique industries should be decided. It would be great (my Capitalist soul speaking) if modern answers for the future were the products of natural birth from entrepreneurs who identify a need and fill them.

Did I dream that oil and coal have received some of my tax dollars?

To your point Frank I would much rather be in a market driven business than a subsidized one. Either could go south but at least you may have a fighting chance if you're not on the government teat and it gets yanked from your mouth.

agreed.


I haven't snopesed this yet, but this tidbit came up in a luddite search:


"Conservative estimates put U.S. direct subsidies to the fossil fuel industry at roughly $20 billion per year; with 20 percent currently allocated to coal and 80 percent to natural gas and crude oil. European Union subsidies are estimated to total 55 billion euros annually."


seems dumb at this point in the history of the planet.

Well I guess that means our corporate socialist government is a bunch of cheapskates compared to the EU's corporate socialist government.

Frank I thought you were all for gubmnet investing stolen loot to invent stuff and pick winners and losers in industry (Boondoggling I believe its called) because capitalist entrepreneurs are slackers and won't invest their own money in stuff that is woke, stuff that consumers won't want or can't afford.

Franky, once you start from the truth that governments are only really good at robbing and killing, and the bigger and more centralized they are the more robbing and killing they need to do to justify their existence and hide their failures, then critics of your sacred duhmacracy will stop looking stupid to you and the fog will lift from your statist eyes.
You may even come to the ultimate truth that "The State is a gang of thieves writ large - the most immoral, grasping and unscrupulous individuals in any society."

Kenney is a politician.

I honestly don’t know much about the subject but I do know if it’s a politician it typically involves political BS

Small potatoes Greta. You marching?

Ha! No, not me, can't speak for Greta though.

Just wanted to get it out there that those who worship the free enterprise over any gov't involvement are kidding themselves thinking the old fuel industries haven't been cashing in and out with gazillions of cash...that's IN and OUT.

I'm no more for creating unemployment than anyone else, but fear of change could cause disastrous harm if we think in terms of protecting oil/coal jobs as the reason to continue promoting industries rounding third and heading home. Short sighted and doomed to fail as jobs will vanish with those industries in the future.

Has anyone else noticed what ends up happening when huge changes morph into the mainstream over several years or decades? What happens is the current leaders in the industry undergoing the transitioning are in the best place to lead into the future!

Recycling has had a good run, maybe it's dying, but maybe not. The trashers didn't end up losing jobs, they actually got creative and created new jobs! But the crying was endless, until it worked.

Shell just scooped up a zillion future charging stations in Europe (Germany maybe?) from an innovative company...that's how it works. That's how it will continue to work.

Necessity is the mother of invention...and invention creates opportunity for better or at least new job.