I cannot believe that the students at Califoria Berkley are already planning protests against the United States actions before we do anything! If they are so willing to expend the energy protesting something that caused such vile results as World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks, then let them expend that same energy holding protest signs on the front of M1A1Tanks as they proceed across the deserts of Afganistan or help dig the bodies out of the Pentagon and WTC. I am appalled at any such actions or planned actions by "students" or "protesters" claiming such a right as this in the wake of what has happened to the United States and the Free World! How do such stupid people get into Cal Berkley to begin with? Charlie

Well here is what I think Charlie. Perhaps "back then", society expressed concern about what a college student did, said, thought. Maybe because college attendance was still mostly a thing of privilege and somehow we assumed that the "enlightened few" might have a brilliant point or two. Nowadays, with so many scholarship opportunities, financial aid, good ole US of A prosperity, etc., going to college is common among HS grads. Today, I think we see college students for what they are---kids (and no hate mail please...I went to college and I too was nothing more than a snot-nosed kid away from home for the first time--hardly an authority on world politics). So my point here is, you and I really don't give a good dump what a college student (who can't even spell Afghanistan)thinks about foreign policy. Remember, also, the pressure that the poor kids at Berkley are under! They have a reputation to uphold! Poor things, living 19 whole years of their lives with no decent military action to protest! This is their big day, Charlie! They've heard the stories about college life on their campus in the 60's and now its finally their turn! I hope CNN doesnt even bother to show up...HEY, here's a new slogan for ya...."What if they held a protest and no one showed up?"

Let me say this: I completely agree with the sentiments about the peace mongers. I don’t think they’re right at all, to be honest, if we don’t fight back this will become a common occurrence. I consider any and all talks of peace to be blatant liberal propaganda.

However, this idea of college students being “snot nosed kids who can’t spell Afganistan” is so far detached from reality that I can’t even begin explain it without sounding insulting. Society cares what college students think just like they care what every other interest group thinks. Want to know what the big key to that is? It’s a little thing called the vote. Seeing as we’re fellow voting Americans, we have a right to have a thought in our head. And guess what ace…..just like you said…..there’s more of us now which means the collegian vote counts EVEN more.

And whiles perhaps when you went away to college and didn’t know anything about the global situation, don’t discount the fact that there are a lot of bright people at these schools who perhaps might be a bit brighter than yourself. Although seeing as you don’t appear to even have a grasp on the college students place in American life, I don’t suspect that even today you’ve garnered the kind of knowledge to make educated decisions on foreign policy.

Now I’m a history guy. I know it pretty well. I’d be willing to bet that a lot of these college students who are protesting have a good idea what happened the last time when we entered into a foreign ideological war, and I’m SURE they’re fairly educated on what happened the last time a super power went into Afganistan. They’re just expressing the fears that every American should have, and while we don’t agree with it, it is our obligation as American citizens to hear out the thoughts of each other and make our decision based on the information provided and not to discount them as “snot nosed kids”.

I hate to dig deeper into reality here, but these “snot nosed kids” are the idealistic, vital, energetic folks that will be powering this nation (the very same one that you helped to build) into the next years. Americas youth have always had something to say.

-dan

It’s also very interesting to note that our countries “snot nosed kids” are the same kids who have largely DRIVEN the American machine through every major military conflict it’s been in. Hmmmm.

And yet you fail to acknowledge the fact that we're voters, we're educated, and we're the future of the country. Once again I remind you: Americas youth has been the force through every major military conflict this country has been in. Alternately, people are worried because the last time we entered a foreign ideological war we got our asses kicked (or perhaps that was due to the incompetence of baby boomers) and the fact that Afghanistan has been the MEAT grinder of super powers on 2 seperate occasions, not to mention the grounds of a massive civil war.



As for my (2) mispellings it's likely because I type fast. My apologies, I don't have anything with spell check on my freeBE box. However, that doesn't change the fact, that you are absolutely incorrect. You can't argue anywhere from you're little over generalization. And if all you have on me is a few spelling mistakes, I'd say there's a signifigant intelligence difference between me, the snot nosed college kid, and you the apparently self-proclaimed intellectual demigod of foreign policy in the area of COMMON SENSE.

-d


But of course, you won't deal in actual facts, instead you're concerned with spelling errors.

I'm incorrect about what? That No one cares to watch kids in California wave protest signs?? I don't think you even read my post. Lay down your defense and look at what I said and didn't say. If being called a kid ills you, I hate it...but you are. I was too...get over it. I hold firm to my contention that most college students are authorities on beer, sex, football, fashion..NOT Middle East policy, of which I never claimed to be an authority. You are correct that "America's youth" have been the backbone of many a military action...and while they did, America's college "kids" protested....As for insulting me personally, I have held both textbooks AND M-16's. I've not only studied foreign policy, I've lived it. Without sharing more of myself than you deserve to know, suffice to say that I've seen humanity at it's best and worst. I've been a college student and a student of death, hate, and discontent...I've earned the right to have an opinion of both groups. You however do come across as being slightly more intelligent that the average frat boy...more than I probably was at your age...so I challenge you...print this thread, save it for 10-12 years, then read it and have a good laugh at yourself and how much you thought you knew about life at age 20(+/-).

Since I started this post, I am not screaming out against college students in general, I only mentioned the group of "radicals" from Berkley, who I am sure are being driven by some Liberal Left Professors (that Cal Berkley has in quite a large number) to protest against a criminal attack against the United States! Plain and simple without getting deeply bogged down in the political arguments! They attacked us, we will get them, and the students or anybody should not protest against the USA efforts, they should endorse these actions and stand solidly behind our Nation! Charlie

"Today, I think we see college students for what they are---kids (and no hate mail please...I went to college and I too was nothing more than a snot-nosed kid away from home for the first time--hardly an authority on world politics). " Likewise, I challenge you to print that line and try to fit it into the context of the American past, present, and future. Read into it and see if you can find out how it doesn't make any sense. -d

When the fine young men & women of Berkley start waving protest signs, no one is gonna consider it newsworthy, except for the fine young men & women of Berkley....and maybe MTV. CNN is not on college campuses asking kids for their opinion...they are busy interviewing political analysts, anti-terrorist experts, world leaders, and members of the intelligence community. That was NOT the case during the Vietnam War....hence my contention.

Dweeb, you've got a belly full of fire, but JBG's got you on this thread. You came out swinging simply because of a generalized comment. Since you are a History major (I think that's what you said) then you must realize that unity helps this country more than misguided protesting. The horrors that young American heroes endured in Vietnam were nothing compared to the horrors that awaited them upon their return to their "homeland". Charlie's point was simply that it's unbelievable these KIDS are willing to protest the US when all we've done thus far is receive the punches. We're not finished cleaning up the blood and these CHILDREN insist on preaching their moral superiority. Three weeks ago, these INFANTS didn't know who Osama Bin Laden was. Now they want us to Communicate rather than retaliate. To pleed and beg rather than dictate. To receive, but never give. To turn the other cheek when both were swiftly removed with the first blow. These Liberal Spirits don't remember the Embassy attacks or the bombing of the USS Cole. We chose not to retaliate then and look what happened. I honestly respect your defense of these college kids, but then you ought to know that Colleges are full of the Liberal Spirits. Liberals are, afterall, simply conservatives without a job...

A few points of order: I did come out swinging about a generalized comment. Fact is, a good deal of college students have a lot of knowledge about the outside world, contrary to various forms of propaganda you hear. And the other thing is, a lot of the peace types are looking at valid concerns rather then moral issues. We’re dealing with a religious war here, and worst of all, we’re going after someone who’s viewed as a saint. We’re also attacking them in the least advantageous terrain in one of the most mined places on Earth, in a country where Joe Average Citizen would love to grab his Ak-47 or muzzle loader and take a pot shot at you-----OR he might just strap a hand grenade to himself and run towards you. Also you’re dealing, in a country with about 80 million hiding spots. Also, we’re screwing around 2 very unstable nuclear powers who have an interest in the conflict that stems from their own religious attitudes. There’s a lot of fear here, and quite frankly, it’s warranted. To give you an idea as to how ugly this might get, the White House is yet to rule out a possible nuclear strike. Likely it would be tactical and used to clear out the mountains if we find out where Bin Laden is hanging, but still---a nuclear strike---for the first time since 45. Now, while there are some idiotic college types who are babbling about ‘turn the other cheek’ and such madness, there are also full grown adults, and dare I say it, members of your age/ethnic/economic class who ALSO believe in the ‘communicate not retaliate’ attitude. And while he is right, that CNN isn’t covering the kids at Berkley----wait 6 months when bodies start coming home. It is a very young war….And by the way, there's really nothing wrong with a few liberal tendancies----as I'm more of a common sense conservative myself. But alas---my conservative nature comes out as I'm in the process of ordering my first firearm for my 21st birthday in a few months. YAY.


-d

I do not disagree with one's right to protest in this country however I am dissapointed at the obvious lack of compassion by these protesters for all of those still in mourning of the tragic events that transpired two weeks ago. I do not think these protesters will be given much recognition due to the wave of patriotism that has swept this country.

I understand protesting as a matter of conviction, I have no patience for protesting as a right of passage. I doubt and question the motive of the "average" & "typical" student, which, perhaps, you are not. But I believe that if we were about to go to war with the Darth Vader, Freddie Kruger, and the Grinch that stole Christmas, kids at liberal schools would still be protesting simply because of the historical precedent and the file footage they say of good ole mom & dad protesting. And now that you have entered the arena of my expertise, what kind of handgun you planning on purchasing?

The ones looking for the moral high ground will protest any time the government tries to send the military into service on foreign soil. But don't worry, when the country is made up of men in black pajamas it's a lot easier to preach peace then when you're fighting the Harkonnen of the modern world. Check out www.rawa.org. Anyway, the gun I've selected is the HK USP(http://www.hkpro.com/usp.htm). The question is do I want to go with the full sized versin or the compact, and what caliber. The gun is a dream to fire. At first I had my heart set on the Glock--but then I was like "Just say 'no' to tactical tupperware" and finally after toying with 3 different usp's I realized what gems they really are. -d

Glocks are good, but I don't prefer them. I like the "tech tupperware" comment...mind if I borrow it? I have friends and acquaintances at H&K, so I've shot pretty much everything they have...(including the UMP .45...urg..urg..urg..urg!!) The USP is a fine handgun..I've shot it in the .45, which is my personal preference...really depends on why you are buying one & how often you plan to shoot, which I urge should be frequent or don't bother!! Get some training, don't just by a gun. Having one & not being familiar & confident is about as big a liability as not having one at all... [email protected] if I can help with any other questions.

Many of America's heroes who died in the cowardly attacks have not even been buried yet, nor will they, and we have those of us defending the right of some group of radicals to protest against the USA when we are the one's getting hit with the "crap"! Well, protest all you want, go to the Gaza and protest, and see how far that will get you! Go to Iraq, Kabul, etc and wave a flag of protest and then be thankful you live in the USA! God Bless America. Charlie

Amen! Charlie for the new Federal Cabinet Post of Protest Czar or should I say Anti-Protest Czar!

Dweeb, it was not that long ago that I too was a college student. I am not dismissing them as a group, and if I were to dismiss them then this wouldn't be a topic of conversation. My question is this: WHAT ARE THEY PROTESTING??? Is it the new War on Terrosism? If so, how can you POSSIBLY be against a war on such a heinous act? Perhaps, just maybe, their protest is indeed misguided, as many of us former college students have suggested. But misguided or not, it is definately poorly executed. As others have pointed out, to plan such an Anti-American event so soon after 6500 lives were lost is just plain stupid. Too bad that won't show up on their GPA.