THEY THAT CAN GIVE UP ESSENTIAL LIBERTY TO OBTAIN A LITTLE TEMPORARY SAFETY, DESERVE NEITHER LIBERTY OR SAFETY.

.

^ (pregnant pause for effect?)

I agree.

"THEY THAT CAN GIVE UP ESSENTIAL LIBERTY TO OBTAIN A LITTLE TEMPORARY SAFETY, DESERVE NEITHER LIBERTY OR SAFETY."


That was all well and good in Franklins time, when a horse bomb was a fart and some crap, In todays world a car bomb could kill and maim a hundred people. I'm sure Ben would agree.

JonR

JonR

(pregnant pause for effect)

JonR

no pause, Laughed so hard that I cried!

Charlie

I totally agree with this... that's why those that are anti-gun will never get my vote. That's what you had in mind isn't it Rick?

Can we today understand the pledge our founding fathers made: "our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor" to acquire liberty? I think not.

Liberty, to the extent they visualized, was unknown in any country on earth and untried in any society in history.

I think that ol' Ben's admonition is still true, and that we deserve neither.

Which liberties, exactly, have you given up?
I hear much crying about the Patriot Act, but other than terrorists who has suffered?
They haven't knocked on my door, and I'm thinking they haven't called on anyone here either.
The horror!

I'm willing to bet that amongst those on these boards, more folks were directly affected by the 9/11 attacks than by will ever be affected by the Patriot Act. Unless, of course, you count increased safety from the aforementioned Act.

Take it further.
What about my "liberty" to drive fast on an empty street?
To grow my own pot?
To sell goods from my house in a residential zone?
I repeat: The horror!

"THEY THAT CAN GIVE UP ESSENTIAL LIBERTY TO OBTAIN A LITTLE TEMPORARY SAFETY, DESERVE NEITHER LIBERTY OR SAFETY."


That was all well and good in Franklins time, when a horse bomb was a fart and some crap, In todays world a car bomb could kill and maim a hundred people. I'm sure Ben would agree.

JonR


Jon, think about that! The founding Fathers wrote their own Death Warrants when they signed the Declaration of Independence. I think the gist of what Franklin was saying is that NO MATTER whether you are afraid of car bombs, or Red Coats coming to take you away in the night, you should never give up one iota of your freedom to purchase safety, because safe slavery is not as precious as perilous freedom!

Well said CWFoster.
Later
Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)

Tailgater, the one big test of the Patriot Acts reach was when State investigators used the shortcuts contained therin to avoid having to get a court order for wiretaps when investigating political corruption with the mob in Las Vegas. Granted, a local judge may have been in on it, and could have blown the whistle, but then if all this stands, they could use it on YOU too! Neither the Corrupt Pols, nor the shady gamers had ANY connection suspected or demonstable to ANY terrorist organizations, the law was used to surveille US Citizens! Why? Because they saw the opportunity! If they can do that, they can abrogate your rights against unlawful search and seizure, they can abrogate your rights to free assembly, and free speech ("He was inciting terrorism!") Do I need to go on???

CWFoster

very well put.

CWFoster

re your response to tailgator.

i am flabergasted to see how much we agree on freedom.
if have doubted you in the past, it was over minutia, but when it comes right down to it, we are together.

and all this time I thought the ol'boy was pushin up daisy's???

Hog

very nicly said tailgater, very well put. thank you...

CW,
I hear your point loud and clear, but disagree with the premise that you or I will be subjected to irrational treatment.
Look at your example. True, it's not terrorist related, but last I checked the MOB was known for illegal activities.
What's the fear?
That drug dealers will be more swiftly captured?
That thieves can't plot their next strategy?
That NAMBLA can't coordinate their next rape fest?

This IS America. If and when our real personal freedoms are infringed upon, don't you think we would "revolt" by voting in the personel who could change the laws?
It's like the liberals who claim they're against partial birth abortions because it would be a stepping stone towards making abortion illegal.
Or the right wing lunatics who want to keep automatic assault weapons available under the name of "right to bear arms".

Sometimes a little is enough.

I'd hate to think that a future terrorist attack couldn't be thwarted in time because the feds had to wait for a court order to tap a phone line.

I'd be the FIRST one in line to fight for my freedoms if I truly thought they were being taken away. I honestly don't think they are.
Of course, I may rethink my stance should I ever feel the need to smuggle in some plutonium, like the Constitution says I should be able to .