You've still provided no reason why Israel has a few hundred thousand Israelis living in settlements in the West Bank and continues to build more. You are still just producing talking point distractions from why Israel cannot/will not make peace.

You want the Palestinians gone. Removed from the West Bank. Dumped on Jordan. That is one of the current lines of thinking I already outlined. The problem is you can't force march them out and you can't exterminate them. I know, we can't use the word "exterminate". How about UFOs come down and magically remove all the Palestinians from Greater Israel! Sounds much better.

The USA gives Israel $3 billion a year plus various other lumps sums. It now is over $100 billion since the 1970s and we get nothing in return. We've given more to Israel than any nation on the planet. Israel is the only industrialized nation that needs/receives our free money. That statement has nothing to do with Israel's "contributions to the world". Actually "contributions to the world" is a right wing Israeli talking point to combat de-legitimization. When you read the talking point it mainly covers technology and medical advancements that are sold to the world. Israel is high-tech but it is a little fast and loose with the definition of "contribute".

While celebrating synchronized cigars tonight, think of a way to get Israel out of the West Bank so the Palestinians can have a little rock of their own. So the entire world can stop being dragged into the mess. What would be the terms that both sides could live with but not be happy with because nobody will be perfectly happy when it is done. In negotiations with arabs, the most important thing to them is saving face. They will never completely surrender. Another 100 years of war would be preferred over total loss of face.

Either that or think about how Israel is going to go 5-0. ...and then 6-0, etc.

(I'm not counting Lebanon in 1982 that resulted in the creation of Hezbollah or Lebanon in 2006 the pushed Hezbollah into a leadership role. Those wouldn't go in the win column)

Live by the sword, die by the sword...get more free swords from the USA.

Have you noticed that you haven't offered a single solution to the Palestinian problem?

Detroit? ?

You're so busy researching to win a debate on a cigar forum that you forget what I wrote over several posts. I will try to Reader's Digest some highlights for...the...last...time...

Why does Israel...they believe it is their land, their roads, your opinion, my opinion means nothing. They have reasons you evidently can not fathom that they believe make it good for them. They may be wrong, maybe not, I wasn't in the meetings when they decided to move in. You are not tapped into their esteemed intelligence.

I don't want the Palestinians gone, you are quoting yourself supposedly quoting me again. You said dumped on Jordan, I said Jordan wouldn't take them, they created them. I said Jordan et al should help them (they don't). Many may end up Israeli citizens, many already are, living and working and being educated in Israel. Very desirable lifestyle for upwardly mobile people. Dark Agers...er, not so much. You can say exterminate. It doesn't apply to this case. But it sure does set the mood for you, just didn't work on me. Reset.

Refuse to make peace...Oy, so stupid. Israel has been to the table many times, with the Power du Jour over the years, once offered 98% of the land that was asked for. It was angrily rejected, no counteroffer, leaving us to surmise a compromise is out of the question. Jerusalem seemed to be part of that problem, we are left to guess. Israel's capital is Jerusalem, get over it. You can not negotiate with terrorists (as opposed to everyday suffering Palestinians being used by terrorists). Whatshisname (replaced Arafat) is almost powerless probably BECAUSE HE MIGHT find a compromise!!Radicals have no flexibility or they would be bad radicals, they do not have "compromise" in their dictionary. Everyone else seems to get this. Oh yeah, Israel will negotiate, check out your boys track record.

Peace will be negotiated and a state will be established when non-radical Muslims regain control...I am paraphrasing yours and my words from before. Somehow you made my point earlier, this we have stated in common: It is Islam's problem. But you want it to be Israel's...hey, good luck there. Modern Muslims MUST take back there religion for meaningful talks to occur. Modern Muslims are cowering in shameful silence. You really think Isarel can expect a serious dialogue with those making their brethren cower? Defense is not war mongering...but terrorism sure is.

Money...The new Tea Party agrees with you, No funding period. There's a recruitment center somewhere near you. You should be mad at the US, not Israel. Remember, your vote counts. It's just different than mine. Gotta love legitimate democracy.

Contributions...come on, you know better. Won't dignify that again. Hate all you want, but don't distort their excellence. You do the googling, I'm really low tech. I didn't even look up Whatshisname's name (what is his name, Abass? seriously I am at a loss)

A little rock...guess I have to be the one to tell you but if you give them a little rock, they might throw it through your window. They won't take it, and have turned down WAY more!

"In negotiations with arabs, the most important thing to them is saving face. They will never completely surrender. Another 100 years of war would be preferred over total loss of face."...Dude, I couldn't have said it better myself, thank you so much. Phew.

Smoke if you got 'em.







I

Dearborn???

Once again, you offer no solution for peace.

Just maintain the status quo. You've already convinced yourself that there cannot be peace because they'll throw the rock back so why try. Waiting for more moderate Muslims to come along isn't going to make things better. It is a chicken-egg thing.

This all leaves you squarely stuck in the right wing camp. Play for 5-0.

I do business in that part of the world. I have coworkers in Israel, business partners in Lebanon. The people I know there don't want to live under the reality that the only option is to play for 5-0 or 1-4 in the next round of an eternal war. The thing is, they're the one standing on the playing field. However, there are plenty wanting the next round so WAR ON!


Pepin JJ Maduro. Not like a Gurkha which I refer to as Palestinian cigars 'cause they explode.

Madison??

Madison is a nice place. I wouldn't give it the Israelis or the Palestinians.

Besides, it is one of the liberals' Holy Sites!

Modesto CA!

Has anyone besides me been to Israel and seen the historical and holly sites? Went to Bethlehem, Dome of the Rock, Temple Mount, The Old City, Golan Heights, Masada, several churches , holy Christian and Jewish burial sites, places, ancient ruins, an archaeological dig, Dead Sea Scrolls, where Jesus walked, etc. Perhaps that gives me a different perspective...

Sadly, in my opinion, the only hope for solution, is for the majority mainstream, modern-world-accepting Muslims to represent the interests of a people desiring to live in peace while accepting the right of Israel to exist...something millions and millions of Muslims do believe in and desire. I must have said versions of this several times already. I didn't say it would be on the fast track, but sure hope these folks step up soon. Hopefully even sooner the Palestinians will become disgusted with their failed alienating leadership and show them the door, or vote them out!!

I do not believe Hammas/Hezbollah et al deal in good faith. Few people trust them, do you? They have done nothing to bridge the gap. All of these quaint expressions referring to waiting "100 years" and more are Arab adages purposely designed to delay decisions and frustrate negotiators, they are not the best candidates for one-call sales closers. Israelis are swift and impatient doers. Yeah, arrogant, part of their charm. The delay is the property of the Arab way, not judging, just explaining.

I live near a heavily Jewish town that is home to a sparkling newer major mosque. These folks are digging each other so much, you'd don a tallis and do the horah. I am optimistic based on this that those in the middle east can also coexist, pessimistic about the time frame. If there can be no solution when radicals are holding the keys, how do you blame Israel? Blame doesn't matter anyway. Don't answer.

Islam must find it's true voice again, and that voice would be heard. If soon, then my fears would subside. The ball is in Islam's court. You hate that, I hate that, but it is my feeling, not necessarily the views of this station. Please don't demand I solve this crisis on CBids forums! I'm good, but not that good.

It isn't about wanting eternal war, but sadly it is about eternal waiting...and sometimes a hockey game breaks out.

I'm scared to ask what business you are in cuz then you may have to kill me. But I'm guessing that a few tweaks to Israel's policies and biz gets better? No insult intended, but people do form opinions with some appreciation of self-interest. Wouldn't think less of you. Just curious if it is part of the overwhelming frustration you are experiencing. Either way, I sincerely appreciate the insight you have afforded me.

On a personal note, I have never been accused of being a right winger in my life! And you probably the same about liberal positions. And here you are touting the NPR position. Were we switched at birth??

Maybe a Kristoff tonight, starts with that beautiful "K". say around nine-ish? I will share the Gurkah joke with the tribe.

Thanks

Frank

One thing you seem to be missing is knowing who the enemy is and where. You can't lump them all together and then wait for some global Islamic solution.

The Palestinian Authority is the West Bank. These are moderates.
Hamas is a terrorist organization in Gaza.
Hezbollah is a terrorist organization in Lebanon and rather strong.

My focus has been on the West Bank and the Palestinians. This is where the settlements are. This is where the ball is in Israel's court. This is where the occupation is and there is opportunity for peace. This is the flashpoint and the first domino for war or peace. When the West Bank shifts back to radicals.....fine, start the next war and go for 5-0.

My point all along has been the USA has no business funding this mess. We've poured over $100 billion into Israel and got nothing in return and will continue to get nothing in return. It is not overwhelming frustration, it is pointing out a policy that can't be defended in the post Cold War era. Israel doesn't need our money but, they enjoy spending it. The reality is the US left and right are both well conditioned and well lobbied to keep sending this money even though they can't explain why but they will trip over themselves to send more money to buy the Jewish vote. That is the comedy. It has nothing to do with the Israeli left and right.

As for business......energy. Electricity, nuclear, oil, natural gas, ethanol, biodiesel, solar, wind power. Worldwide. We have enough offices in enough places that we get around any geopolitical issues. We don't send women to the middle east. We don't send Americans to Venezuela. Americans go to the friendly sheikdoms, Turks to the less friendly. Canadians can go anywhere! Someone who has been to Israel doesn't go to a number of arab countries and vice versa.

As for the Israeli region, what little market there is we already have pretty much cornered for our domain. If there were another war and Israel suffered damage to the electrical grid, power plants, oil terminals, and pipelines, we would definitely get an increase in work! It would be paid for by the USA and we would staff it from Spain. Our partner in Lebanon got work once when Israel bombed a Lebanese substation. (I guess they thought there were PLO hiding behind a transformer! Cool thing....the USA paid for the jet and the bombs and the USA paid for the reconstruction!) I assume you thought I wanted to sell deodorant in the West Bank and Israel was blocking my efforts!

In the grand scheme of things and as industrialized as Israel is, one mid-sized city in China can easily provide far more revenue and profit than all of Israel even if it were rebuilding after a war. (and they both pay in US Dollars!)

HD

I accept your advantage in experience with the people and conditions in the middle east. I have never been there. Tell me what type of offer would be accepted by the current Palestinian representatives. And those reps would be able to sell to the factions. And missle lobbing would end Obviously, it's senseless to offer a little piece of rock, previous sit-downs were much further along then that. Rioting would ensue as it would be an insult. What is an acceptable starting point, fair to both sides, taking into account Palestinian rights to self government and self determination in a recognized statehood, and true eternal peace (of mind) for Israel? Ironically, it will include the reviled "land for peace". Won't it?

Let's pretend that if Jerusalem ain't in the package they walk from the table without a response. Or whatever is or isn't in the offer causes a walkout without counteroffer? Would it still be up to Israel to keep changing offers?

Does a car buyer have to keep guessing what the car costs?

I am not trying to be provocative, it is morning and I want peace today.

You can't find Good hot dogs anywhere in the Mid East

no Hebrew National???

(0(0)
(='.’=)
(")(")




Turkey Dogs !

instead of pork,,,

(0(0)
(='.’=)
(")(") The other Kosher meat

I eat it...shhhhh.

I would take a kosher hot dog over any middle eastern food!

....but I don't think I would even try to buy a car from a Jew or an arab. It would take a year to figure out what the final price was.