Add water...makes it's own sauce!!![whip]

Just like a Telefunken U-47.


with leather.


=d>

Wouldn't that make you very happy.

Somehow I'm thinking they'll find an excuse to sit this one out. They did at least suggest that they might need at extra $20 billion from the USA.

Let's ask Palestine instead.
Anyone with me?

They're prolly both busy with Israeli Apartheid Week.

yeah. or maybe trying to figure out how to wipe us out too. or maybe both.
just no time left to say yes to a new state. so hard yto make a new state, just ask Israel. It's a bitch irrigating a desert.

Wait. which side would Palestine (if there ever is a Palestine) be on in this Libya/Egypt/Yemen etc mess? Perhaps they'd help secure our interests waaaaayyyyy better than Israel.

Ya think?

I should have invested in whacking sticks.... remind me next year... 😟

Neither Palestinians nor Israel help secure our interests. De-fund them both.

We should be Proud to help Radical Islamist take over the Middle East, they are after all about Peace and Love..

Ever consider they are still being supported just to get them to stay out? Some believe this. I am not sure.

$20 billion is a lot of money, particularly compared to what we pay annually. Perhaps, the plan is to buy Israel's recognition of a Palestinian state, which might simmer down some of the regions problems- for a short while...

Anyhow, I have been trying to figure out what percentage Israel's annual budget represents the aid we annually give Israel. Do you know a source?


(Also, PM me your address as I have an SLR I want you to taste and tell me if it is "on")

The radical Islamists are against Gaddaffy. A no-fly zone would help them.

Robert,

The number I have seen is 3% but they are expecting a raise that is stuck in the buget fight in the US congress.

The $20 billion dollar came from I think the Israeli Defense Minister today.

We never get the straight story because there are so many different types of aid. Financial aid, military aid, research aid, loan guarantees.... It gets distributed in different budgets; some interestingly, are public and the others are secret. Military aid appears to require Israel to spend 75% on U.S. armaments- this helps support our military industrial complex.

The figure I keep seeing is $3 billion annually, but I doubt that is accurate. Most of what I am finding seems to be repetitive use of the same less than fully credible sources of information. Also, I have been reading that $3 billion annually represents somewhere between 1-5% of Israel's budget. When Israel's economy is doing well, some both here and in Israel wonder out loud whether the aid is truly necessary.

Anyhow, it seems to be a very tangled web, the deepest parts of which we will probably not learn about for years to come...

$3 billion is the relatively easily located military aid number. Loan guarantees technically don't count as aid and then often are forgiven later and just sorta vanish. Economic aid has been given that has been used to pay off our loans. Because much of the aid is hidden in department budgets, it is very difficult to know the true number above and beyond the $3 billion.

3 billion USD per year is equal to 20-25% of Israel's defense budget. 3/4 of that $3 billion has to be spent buying US weaponry and the other 1/4 can be used for anything and usually goes to the Israeli military industrial complex. It is pretty easy to find the Israeli government budget, convert the currencies, and figure out what percentage the 3 billion is of their overall budget. That is how I got 3%.

A good example on off-the-books types of aid is we're paying for a short range missle defense system for knocking out the little 1-5 lb warheads that get commonly launched from Gaza or Lebanon. It is of absolutely no use to the USA but is covered under a joint defense project and is not part of the $3 billion.

What is known is the USA has given Israel somewhere between $100-120 billion. More than the USA has given any other country.

There was a time when funding Israel was useful in the whole Cold War mentality. That time has passed. Now we just keep doing the same thing and hoping the result will be different.

I would listen to the pros and cons. But goodbye Palestine possibility. In the best of times they turned down every offer made without a counteroffer. Your suggestion would leave them worse off than ever. They have never even been "adopted" by Arab states. None willing to cede one square inch of sand to a new Palestine!!

Surprise, HD. I do care about them. I do believe they should have a state. Should have happened the day Israel was
(re)born. Can't blame Israel for that.

What did Balfour want?

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country". ~ Balfour

He didn't get the part about "nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine".



In reality, there is no Palestine possibility. Israel cannot make peace. There have always been counteroffers but Israel cannot accept them.

Ever see a map of the Israeli settlements in the West Bank? Israel is not going to pull out of those settlements or the entire Jordan border and the end result will be maybe 50% of the West Bank can go to the Palestinians and it will be carved up into many separate partitions that will be each surrounded by the Israeli military. Much like it is right now.

Too many Israelis view the West Bank as part of Zion. Samaria and Judea. Also parts of Lebanon can be considered Zion. This is where being a Zionist gets tricky. Is it just for a Jewish state or the full reconstruction of Zion.

Israel is never going to let go of any portion of Jerusalem. Through legal land purchases it is already pretty well colonized unlike the West Bank settlement colonization effort.

Israel is never going to allow the right of return to Palestinians who fled what now is Israel. If they did, it would become half arab, half Jew and the arabs breed far faster.

Israel can never allow a single state solution because of the exact same population demographics. This is why Israel can't annex the West Bank or Gaza until the Palestinians leave or are killed off. Jewish ethnic purity is critical to the concept of Israel as a Jewish state. A state with a bunch of Jews is not going to cut it.

Arab nations have donated land to form a Palestine. Jordan donated the West Bank and Egypt donated Gaza. Again, this kinda gets back to the definition of Zion. Maybe that wasn't a donation and it was simply Zion reforming its original borders. I think what you're looking for is Jordan to cut out a chuck of Jordan and call it Palestine and then all the Palestinians pack up from Judea and Samaria and move there. (With USA and UN funding, of course)

Although you care about the Palestinians having a state, you probably will care when the EU and the UN declare and recognize a Palestinian state on the pre-1967 borders and various UN resolutions. The next logical step will be reconstruction funds and peacekeeping troops. I expect this happens within 3 years unless Israel makes peace. Israel is already being recognized as an apartheid state with 43 years of Palestinian internment camps and meanwhile there is a strong possibility of democracy breaking out all over North Africa. Not a good situation for Israel.

Meanwhile we continue to pour US taxpayer dollars in for nothing. Cut the funds. It won't cripple Israel but they will take notice. It will also remind them that they can't go starting new wars with the safety that the USA will show up with an extra 10 billion or so, as needed.

...and they can still go do a no-fly zone over Libya!

Another Stanley Cup win?[whip]

Beer brewing Saturday?