FuzzNJ
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15 years ago
I asked CIA Director Leon Panetta for the facts, and he told me the following: The trail to bin Laden did not begin with a disclosure from Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times. The first mention of Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti — the nickname of the al-Qaeda courier who ultimately led us to bin Laden — as well as a description of him as an important member of al-Qaeda, came from a detainee held in another country, who we believe was not tortured. None of the three detainees who were waterboarded provided Abu Ahmed’s real name, his whereabouts or an accurate description of his role in al-Qaeda.

In fact, the use of “enhanced interrogation techniques” on Khalid Sheik Mohammed produced false and misleading information. He specifically told his interrogators that Abu Ahmed had moved to Peshawar, got married and ceased his role as an al-Qaeda facilitator — none of which was true. According to the staff of the Senate intelligence committee, the best intelligence gained from a CIA detainee — information describing Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti’s real role in al-Qaeda and his true relationship to bin Laden — was obtained through standard, noncoercive means.

I know from personal experience that the abuse of prisoners sometimes produces good intelligence but often produces bad intelligence because under torture a person will say anything he thinks his captors want to hear — true or false — if he believes it will relieve his suffering. Often, information provided to stop the torture is deliberately misleading.

Mistreatment of enemy prisoners endangers our own troops, who might someday be held captive. While some enemies, and al-Qaeda surely, will never be bound by the principle of reciprocity, we should have concern for those Americans captured by more conventional enemies, if not in this war then in the next.



A snippet from McCain's

Bin Laden’s death and the debate over torture
By John McCain, Published: May 11

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bin-ladens-death-and-the-debate-over-torture/2011/05/11/AFd1mdsG_print.html 
Whistlebritches
15 years ago
Have you ever been waterboarded Fuzz??????? I'd love to prove to you and every other do gooder out there that waterboarding is NOT torture.No finger nails pulled,no crushed fingers,no testicles lit up by 120 volts and more importantly not one bruise left on your body.Tell me how thats torture.Waterboarding is no more than a virtual drowning used to induce panic.As far as I know not one person has ever died from this practice provided proper technique and protocol were followed.

I'd love to waterboard you..............we'd get to the bottom of those deep dark secrets that haunt you.


Ron
FuzzNJ
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15 years ago

Have you ever been waterboarded Fuzz??????? I'd love to prove to you and every other do gooder out there that waterboarding is NOT torture.No finger nails pulled,no crushed fingers,no testicles lit up by 120 volts and more importantly not one bruise left on your body.Tell me how thats torture.Waterboarding is no more than a virtual drowning used to induce panic.As far as I know not one person has ever died from this practice provided proper technique and protocol were followed.

I'd love to waterboard you..............we'd get to the bottom of those deep dark secrets that haunt you.


Ron

Whistlebritches wrote:



McCain has been tortured, he says waterboarding is torture, I'll take his word over yours, or potts, or wheels anyday.
Whistlebritches
15 years ago

McCain has been tortured, he says waterboarding is torture, I'll take his word over yours, or potts, or wheels anyday.

FuzzNJ wrote:




I agree McCain was tortured.He was beaten half to death numerous times.........among GOD only knows what other suffering he was dealt.I can also understand his viewpoint.I think anyone subjected to the horrors he suffered would have this opinion.


That being said he is WRONG.Waterboarding is so elementary it's not even used in most countries that allow TRUE TORTURE.They sit back and laugh as we continue to argue over this.

There are much better ways to make someone give up information than waterboarding but they are torture.I do not support the use of these methods except for extreme situations.


Ron
FuzzNJ
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15 years ago

I agree McCain was tortured.He was beaten half to death numerous times.........among GOD only knows what other suffering he was dealt.I can also understand his viewpoint.I think anyone subjected to the horrors he suffered would have this opinion.


That being said he is WRONG.Waterboarding is so elementary it's not even used in most countries that allow TRUE TORTURE.They sit back and laugh as we continue to argue over this.

There are much better ways to make someone give up information than waterboarding but they are torture.I do not support the use of these methods except for extreme situations.


Ron

Whistlebritches wrote:



Holy crap you are talking out of your ass here.

Why the hell should we care about countries that allow 'true torture'?

What are those countries and why should we be like them in any way and why the f should we care if they laugh?

If there are better ways to get information, why don't you support them all the time?

We have laws against torture and this includes waterboarding and it is against international treaties of which we are signers.

And why would only someone who hasn't been tortured be allowed to give an opinion on torture, shouldn't that be the opposite?

wheelrite
15 years ago
FuzzNJ
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15 years ago

Yawn...

wheelrite wrote:



Really? You seemed so excited when you posted the thank you mr. waterboard thread. Why did you lose interest?
VaMtnMan
15 years ago

"Leon Panetta, director of the CIA, revealed there was a 25 minute blackout during which the live feed from cameras mounted on the helmets of the US special forces was cut off. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8493391/Osama-bin-Laden-dead-Blackout-during-raid-on-bin-Laden-compound.html 




"SEAL helmet cams recorded entire bin Laden raid"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/05/12/eveningnews/main20062410.shtml?tag=cbsContent;cbsCarousel 



"I asked CIA Director Leon Panetta for the facts, and he told me the following"

Please don't get me wrong, but when Leon Panetta says something, I really have a hard time believing him now.
VaMtnMan
15 years ago
By the way, when it comes to Terrorist, I could really care less how bad we torture them. Sometimes you just have to get your hands dirty. I am sorry if you don't have the stomach for it. I am sure if it was up to you Fuzzywuzzy, we would have surrendered to them long ago. I guess that what you get for being a "Sheep".
wheelrite
15 years ago

Really? You seemed so excited when you posted the thank you mr. waterboard thread. Why did you lose interest?

FuzzNJ wrote:




I'm over it...

Now I'm fixated on the Arnold and Maria tragedy...
Whistlebritches
15 years ago

Holy crap you are talking out of your ass here.

Why the hell should we care about countries that allow 'true torture'?

What are those countries and why should we be like them in any way and why the f should we care if they laugh?

If there are better ways to get information, why don't you support them all the time?

We have laws against torture and this includes waterboarding and it is against international treaties of which we are signers.

And why would only someone who hasn't been tortured be allowed to give an opinion on torture, shouldn't that be the opposite?

FuzzNJ wrote:




1.That would be your job around here.

2.Because if we ever end up in a conflict in these countries this is what our servicemen and woman will be subject to.They'll be begging to be waterboarded I assure you.Other than that reason I could care less.

3.They laugh because we are so politically correct.DUHH....you're fugging brilliant

4.The better ways to get information I speak of do involve torture.Painful and horrific torture....it works but should never be used except in the event of preventing massive loss of life.

5.I believe you are wrong.I do not believe internationally waterboarding is specifically mentioned........nor is it defined as torture.

6.Everyone has an opinion Fuzz.....and if you can't see my point on McCain you are as dense as a log.I believe McCain even said sleep deprivation was torture............The man has some serious issues with this subject.Again quite obvious to me.


Ron
FuzzNJ
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15 years ago

By the way, when it comes to Terrorist, I could really care less how bad we torture them. Sometimes you just have to get your hands dirty. I am sorry if you don't have the stomach for it. I am sure if it was up to you Fuzzywuzzy, we would have surrendered to them long ago. I guess that what you get for being a "Sheep".

VaMtnMan wrote:



Yeah, those are our only two choices, torture them or surrender to them. Think before you hit post.
leonardo
15 years ago
Torturing is wrong. Is assassination ok? Wrong to induce panic, make 'em think they're drowning, but ok to kill them?
FuzzNJ
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15 years ago

1.That would be your job around here.

2.Because if we ever end up in a conflict in these countries this is what our servicemen and woman will be subject to.They'll be begging to be waterboarded I assure you.Other than that reason I could care less.

3.They laugh because we are so politically correct.DUHH....you're fugging brilliant

4.The better ways to get information I speak of do involve torture.Painful and horrific torture....it works but should never be used except in the event of preventing massive loss of life.

5.I believe you are wrong.I do not believe internationally waterboarding is specifically mentioned........nor is it defined as torture.

6.Everyone has an opinion Fuzz.....and if you can't see my point on McCain you are as dense as a log.I believe McCain even said sleep deprivation was torture............The man has some serious issues with this subject.Again quite obvious to me.


Ron

Whistlebritches wrote:




Oh lordy. You are confusing politically correct with legal, moral and just. We don't lower ourselves to the level of savages because we are of a higher moral standard. The fact that you 'believe' or 'feel' that I'm wrong, does not make it true. And of course someone who has been tortured has issues, or opinions on the subject. You have opinions on it as well, as do I, and we have not been tortured. Would you rather take the advice of someone who has been to the Grand Canyon before your vacation, or someone who only read about it on the internet?
FuzzNJ
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15 years ago

Torturing is wrong. Is assassination ok? Wrong to induce panic, make 'em think they're drowning, but ok to kill them?

leonardo wrote:



You're referring to bin Laden? Not this stupid argument again. 🐴
wheelrite
15 years ago
Torture ?

If KSM had the choice of telling all he knew or eating a meal my old lady prepared,he'd sing like a songbird..


wheel,,
leonardo
15 years ago

You're referring to bin Laden? Not this stupid argument again. 🐴

FuzzNJ wrote:



Sorry, haven't been keeping up.
FuzzNJ
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15 years ago

Sorry, haven't been keeping up.

leonardo wrote:



It's ok. I too can't read this crap every day either. 😉
FuzzNJ
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15 years ago

Torture ?

If KSM had the choice of telling all he knew or eating a meal my old lady prepared,he'd sing like a songbird..


wheel,,

wheelrite wrote:



and your old lady does what you tell her to do or else, right? You are one great man, had you been born like 400 years ago.
donutboy2000
15 years ago

McCain has been tortured, he says waterboarding is torture, I'll take his word over yours, or potts, or wheels anyday.

FuzzNJ wrote:




Fuzz believes Mccain !!!



END TIMES !!!
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