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MikeyRavioli
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#41

And while I am more than happy to point the finger at corporate greed for the economic decline I also need to blame the consumers. Predatory loans? What the hell is that? When I bought my home at the height of the market, I was making a decent salary as was my wife. When we were going through the mortgage process we got approved for an amount that made both our jaws hit the table. There was simply no way we could have afforded a mortgage for an amount that high. But we were smart enough to know better. We consulted with a trusted advisor and he gave us a range that we could afford. That amount turned out to be about half the amount we were approved for. If you make $8 an hour at Taco Bell, you shouldn’t even be applying for a mortgage much less signing for a 500k commitment.

We are a consumer society who has no idea of the value of a dollar or what it means to sacrifice. Where in the constitution is the right to $100 jeans and $200 sneakers? Or big screen flat panel tv’s in every room? With 200+ cable channels and hi-speed internet. Or cell phones, mp3 players, and computers for every member of the family? Or the right to $6 coffee drinks and dinner out 5 nights a week?

Minimum wage was never intended to support a family. If you are only qualified to do minimum wage jobs than some things are going to be out of your reach.

The “poor” in this country have some lessons to learn about what it really means to be poor. A generation ago our “poor” would be judged as wealthy based on their possessions.

You want to protest and vilify people and tax millionaires that’s fine, but they need to look in the mirror as well. The greedy corporations may have thrown out the bait but the even greedier consumer was more than happy to take the hook.

rfenst
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#42

And Drafter they don't but cigars they confiscate them in Chicago.

ZRX1200 wrote:

That was the absolutely stupidest, bone-head move the vendors ever could have maid- putting all their eggs in one basket and deviating so far from their9r track record of success at different ports of entry. I spoke to the owner of one vendor who got hit and in retrospect he agreed that was the problem. They cut corners by going to Chicago to save $$...

MikeyRavioli
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#43

Give me a break Fuzz. I dont need charity becuase I worked hard, got an education, applied it in a free market economy and support myself and my family. I buy what I can afford avoiding debt and use my brain so I don't become a victim of corporate greed.

I work hard, I earn money, I pay my fair share of taxes so my government can keep me safe and help support those less fortunate.

Justice is served and charity is not needed.

FuzzNJ
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#44

The problem I have with these groups is that they are demanding something for nothing.
They can't stand the fact that it's difficult to find a good job.
So they are following the presidents cue and attacking the "rich".

Again I will ask: Why are they not protesting outside their universities? They paid good money for their degrees. They are not getting any return for their dollar. These CEO's did nothing to them but are being blamed. The Deans cheated them much more so then the CEO's.

But that would take some common sense.

tailgater wrote:

It doesn't make more sense when one is trying to bring attention to the lack of justice and the blatant way the system favors the wealthy and powerful to the disadvantage of working people. It is those policies, the money controlling the political system and the everything for business mentality that are the cause of our economic problems. This permeates everything, not just one industry or government. They aren't looking for charity, but justice.

rfenst
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#45

These buffoons may as well protest outside a basketball court and complain that the players are too tall.

Sure, their rant is based on facts. But what are they expecting to be done about it?

Akin to the tea party?
Not on the occupiers best day.

As any successful person knows, a critical aspect of getting what you want is to have a goal. In other words, you have to know what it is you're trying to achieve.

Didn't their worthless college degrees teach them anything?

tailgater wrote:

Akin to Tea Party in that it is populist. Not in terms of message, means, current stature, success, quality of leadership, influence or votes. But, you just never know...

tailgater
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#46

Whatever you need to open your eyes works for me. Go for it.

FuzzNJ wrote:

Open my eyes?
I've offered constructive criticism and all I've heard in rebuttal is vague fluff with zero substance.

Singing kumbaya and swaying in unison does nothing to improve their lot in life.

MikeyRavioli
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#47

Sorry again Fuzz, but the forgiveness of all debt and all educational opportunites including the highest universities being open to all and free is not justice. Its charity.

Expecting there to be avaialble jobs for people who worked hard and got an eduction and followed the path is justice.

FuzzNJ
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#48

MikeyRavioli wrote:

I said clearly that charity is not requested, and I don't need it either. We are fortunate enough to be able to give charity not receive. See I have mine, but I am aware that not everyone does. With companies outsourcing because it's not only cheaper, but incentivized by government policy, jobs are leaving, money is leaving the economy. Tax policy is making the rich richer and the poor poorer like no time since the great depression.

This is unsustainable, and the people are finally realizing it. They know the policies of the last 31 years are a disaster and need to change. That would be justice, not charity.

tailgater
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#49

Akin to Tea Party in that it is populist. Not in terms of message, means, current stature, success, quality of leadership, influence or votes. But, you just never know...

rfenst wrote:

Unfortunately, you are correct. The influence at the polls may be considerable.

DrafterX
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#50

Protesters in New York, Denver and Seattle clashed with authorities as at least 48 arrests were made early Friday near Occupy Wall Street encampments.

Police in New York said they made at least 14 arrests after a few hundred protesters marched through lower Manhattan near Zuccotti Park, where a planned cleaning on Friday had been postponed by the city's deputy mayor.

In one incident, an NYPD scooter accidently struck a protester, causing him to fall to the ground screaming before kicking the vehicle over to free his foot. He was then arrested.

Most of the arrests occurred near Broadway and Exchange Place. Charges were pending, but some protesters obstructed traffic or overturned trash cans and hurled bottles.

Film at 11... 🤔

tailgater
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#51

... With companies outsourcing because it's not only cheaper, but incentivized by government policy, jobs are leaving, money is leaving the economy. Tax policy is making the rich richer and the poor poorer like no time since the great depression.

This is unsustainable, and the people are finally realizing it. They know the policies of the last 31 years are a disaster and need to change. That would be justice, not charity.

FuzzNJ wrote:

This is a good post.
I agree with much of what you're saying.

But I strongly dissagree with the method that the occupiers are employing.

Don't blame the corporations for following the rules. Look at the rules themselves and ask why and how they were put into effect.

But there is one tiny little snag here: The OWS crowd doesn't want to address the concerns through democratic measures. They want the corporations to either cave in or be forced by the government to simply hand them their demands.
They want their debt cancelled.
They feel they deserve high paying jobs even if none are available.
They expect to be coddled, and their sympathisers are providing them with satisfaction that they deserve it.

It's dangerous.
And it's disturbing that the president is one of their chief sypathisers.

FuzzNJ
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#52

MikeyRavioli wrote:

And those two 'demands' are from where? A couple random people and not an official release? Ah! So the Teabaggers who quoted "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." all the time or Psalms 109:8 about Obama where both referred to the death of Obama spoke for all teabaggers?

So you are saying that the unemployed in this country are people who don't work hard? Interesting position to take. I don't think you'll find many elected official willing to take it will you though.

MikeyRavioli
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#53

Nobody is defending outsourcing. Nobody is defending jobs and money leaving the economy. Nobody is unfair defending tax policy. For all those issues I agree 100% with the protesters.

What I disagree with is the occupation of public property and the targets they are choosing to go after as directed by the left. And all the other bull**** that the lack of central leadership allows to go on.

If they stuck to the above issues, hell I might spend a Saturday afternoon down there myself. Of course only after they aerate the greens at my country club. I hate playing once the greens are aerated.

FuzzNJ
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#54

DrafterX wrote:

The Egyptian military has rounded up scores of human rights activists, protest organizers and journalists in recent days without formal charges, according to watchdog groups and accounts by the detainees. While most arrests have been brief -- lasting fewer than 24 hours -- experts say they're a sign that the regime's notorious tradition of extrajudicial detentions is continuing even as Mubarak appears to be on his way out of power.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/02/06/2054199/arrests-stir-fears-of-a-crackdown.html#ixzz1amhcWyxI

We've already seen this film from all over the world, for years, decades actually. It's a sad rerun that the very same people can find outrageous or deserving depending on if they agree with the message. Principle be damned.

MikeyRavioli
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#55

I never said unemployed people dont work hard, but by nature of the definition of unemployed they dont actually work at all.

And those demands came from articles posted on the web by people doing interviews with protesters in the park. Again my point was that the lack of centralized leadership and a unified message hurts the whole protest. Nutbags like them get media coverage and weaken the true message.

Its jobs. Its all about jobs. Its always been about jobs. Jobs will turn the economy around. Not handouts. Not txing one group to give to another. Most Americans want to work. As soon as they get money in their pocket they want to spend it. Spending it creates the need for more jobs. More jobs means more spending more spending meand more jobs......

All the while the government collects taxes on the pay checks and taxes on the goods and services the remainder is spent on.

I have said I don't disagree with those views. Its the lunatics that have hitched their wagons to those views that diminish the message. The movement will not be taken seriously until a leader emerges and minimizes the roles of the lunatics who are there for no other reason than free pizza and a desire to poop in public.

FuzzNJ
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#56

tailgater wrote:

They wrote the rules. They own the rule makers and it's only getting worse since Citizens United.

But there is one tiny little snag here: The OWS crowd doesn't want to address the concerns through democratic measures. They want the corporations to either cave in or be forced by the government to simply hand them their demands.

tailgater wrote:

Lmao, protest is a form of Democracy man. C'mon! What a nutty statement. It's in our god damn constitution. Besides, we thought Obama was going to be different and we found out even he wasn't different, so the only way to try and change the system is through political pressure. This is one way.

They want their debt cancelled.
They feel they deserve high paying jobs even if none are available.
They expect to be coddled, and their sympathisers are providing them with satisfaction that they deserve it.

tailgater wrote:

All not true and/or exaggerated to fiction status.

It's dangerous.
And it's disturbing that the president is one of their chief sypathisers.

tailgater wrote:

Dangerous? How old are you? Dangerous? You would be one of those guys defending the crown in the '16th century' when we rebelled against England, huh?

FuzzNJ
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#57

MikeyRavioli wrote:

Aww, people making you uncomfortable, nice. That is how they know it's working. Democracy is messy and stuff happens, right Rumsfeld?

DrafterX
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#58

You would be one of those guys defending the crown in the '16th century' when we rebelled against England, huh?

There was prolly some rebelling going on by the local Indians on the east coast.... they should've let the pilgrims starve I say.... 😟

MikeyRavioli
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#59

Sorry again Fuzz but you cant compare Egyptian human rights protesters to people protesting for what these people are fighting for. It just doesnt compare.

You keep downplaying the extremists in this movement who don't want reform but want anarchy instead. No matther how many times you dismiss it all you have to do is look online at the news or watch any local broadcast to find them featured front and center.

A guy who lives under a repressive dictator where no one has a chance I can support
A guy who lives on his mothers couch and doesnt want to pay his student loans while wearing $200 sneakers talking to his friends on his iPhone - sorry.

FuzzNJ
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#60

MikeyRavioli wrote:

And what I'm saying is if all you do is look for the nutbags, that's all you will see. I gave the example of nut bag teabaggers, which you ignored. In the past on these boards I gave obvious examples of racist teabaggers. With great offense everyone who agreed with the teabag position defended the group by saying the group wasn't crazy or racist, there may be a few 'bad apples'. Yet the same people don't give the other side the same courtesy. I don't randomly throw out those posts for fun, they are intended to show blatant hypocrisy by the right, yet the most obvious points of logic seem to be lost on the most brainwashed partisan.

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