Da Chief
21 years ago
The Muslim religion in the fastest growing
religion per capita in the United States, especially
in the minority races!!!

Allah or Jesus?
by Rick Mathes

Last month I attended my annual training session
that's required for maintaining my state prison
security clearance During the training session
there was a presentation by three speakers
representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and
Muslim faiths, who explained each of their belief
systems.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam
had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the
basics of Islam, complete with a video.
After the presentations, time was provided for
questions and answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to
the Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm
wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics
of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war]
against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an
infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are
assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you
give me the definition of an infidel?"

There was no disagreement with my statements and,
without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!"

I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this
straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded
to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go
to Heaven. Is that correct?"

The _expression on his face changed from one of
authority and command to that of a little boy who
had just gotten caught with his hand in the cookie
jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to
imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to
kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants
to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"

The Imam was speechless.

I continued, "I also have problem with being your friend
when you and your brother clerics are telling your
followers to kill me. Let me ask you a question.
Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill
me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to
love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants
you to be with me?"

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his
head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and /or
promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were
not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic
Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslim's beliefs.
I think everyone in the US should be required to read this,
but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the
ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized.

This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well
known leader in prison ministry.
324867.jpg

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drmccormick
21 years ago
FYI:
http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/rickmathes.html 


(3/24/2004) Since the horrible events of September 11, 2001, the Islamic faith, and those who follow it, have been the subjects of intense scrutiny and distrust. Desperate to know why so many innocent people had to die, many have tried to "prove" that the Muslim faith is intrinsically violent. Given this social tone, it is not surprising that this chain letter, supposedly putting one of Islam's own on the spot, has become so popular. At the very least, we can say this is a one-sided account of real events.

SAMPLE CHAIN LETTER TEXT

By Rick Mathes

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths who explained their belief systems. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say.

The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and sked, "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"

There was no disagreement with my statements and without hesitation he replied, "Non-believers!"

I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Pat Robertson or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"

The Imam was speechless.

I continued, "I also have problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let me ask you a question! ...would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and wants you to be with me?"

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.

Chuck Colson once told me something that has sustained me these 20 years of prison ministry. He said to me, "Rick, remember that the truth will prevail."

And it will!

END CHAIN LETTER TEXT



Rick Mathes and his wife, Trish, are the founders of Mission Gate Prison Ministries, an outreach to those who are incarcerated and their families. The essay above was offered in the ministry's subscription newsletter and appears in the version above unchanged from its original. Some versions, however, have changed. Most notably, some have added preface or postscript notes that lack the validity of Mathes original, but have become seamlessly integrated with it. Also, some versions have fallen victim to e-mail spell-checkers and incorrectly list the author's name as "Rick Mattes" or "Rich Mattes."





The veracity of the claims made in it, however, is the author's to prove. Unfortunately, Rick Mathes told BreakTheChain.org that he will not provide further details because, in his words, "I fear retribution - I have a 20 year prison ministry to protect."

Third-party accounts of the events in question paint a significantly different picture than the one offered by Mathes. Tim Kniest, spokesman for the Missouri Department of Corrections, told the Lee news service that the training session in question was for prison volunteers and took place in a corrections facility in Fulton, MO. However, according to Kniest, prison officials' recollection of events that day differ from Mathes' in several aspects:

Religious leaders representing faiths followed by current inmates were invited to present.

The presenter on Islam was not an Imam, but rather a Muslim inmate who was pressed into presenting after no Imam could be arranged.

Prison officials confirm that the Muslim inmate was asked a few questions that he was unable to answer, but none along the lines of those suggested by Mr. Mathes.
Mathes, however, maintains that his is an accurate account, using the facts he knew at the time, and did go into some more detail making the encounter seem less antagonistic than his original account:

"...the inmate was introduced as an 'Imam'. Mr. Kneist was not there to know what was said or not and cannot disprove that what I wrote wasn't said. In fact when I said, 'I have a hard time being your friend when your faith says to kill me to go to heaven.' everyone burst out laughing. When his presentation was over and it was time for a break, we all felt sorry for the inmate including my self. In fact I gave him a sign and said 'Salaam' and he responded with a knowing smile. Knowing that there wasn't any animosity between us.

"I really asked the questions I needed to know the answers to and he did not respond as I thought he would have. I expected him to defend this "jihad" thing as rebel Muslims using religion to cloak their evil deed in.

"His silence leads me to conclude that either he was ignorant of his faith, was caught off guard and speechless, or agreed with my premise and conclusion (which I think he was).

"I am getting 24 emails in favor of the article to 1 against. We all agree that there is a "simmering volcano" in the Muslim community. Give me an Imam that will sing "God Bless America" or will say the "Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag" and I will listen to them discredit the fears we have about the Muslim community and all that we see and hear in the media. Until the American Muslim community speaks up, I have my doubts about those who join them."



Nonetheless, this essay falls short of being the proof that Islam's leaders cannot deny the violent nature of their own religion that many would have it be. Since both sides of the argument have recognized that the person Mathes was questioning was not an Islamic official nor a recognized expert in the religion, his actions should not be considered indicative of all Muslims. Break this chain

adroomi
21 years ago
well done drmccormick,
As I've said at least a hundred times on this board......question everything.

Hatred breeds hatred, and ignorance leads to a closed mind.
Cigarick
21 years ago
I'd say a closed mind leads to ignorance. Ever read the Koran?
dapperdan
21 years ago
When a federal agent that works for the treasury department that is a expert on counterfeiting he does not study a counterfeit bill but the real one. So after seeing the real one and knowing it intimately he knows right off the bat which is the fake.I have read enough of the Koran to know its the fake.
18delta
21 years ago
i have read eulogies over coffins of several dead friends of mine killed by the followers of the koran..........enough said
18delta
21 years ago
some speak of ignorance here and i wonder how many times they have been at the receiving end of an ak 47 being fired at them by one of these "peaceful" people.

talk about ignorance
usahog
21 years ago
Yep Friendly....

DRUDGE REPORT
Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:31 pm Post subject: OBL Had Secured Religious Approval to Use Nuke Against US
http://www.drudgereport.com 

*****

FORMER HEAD OF CIA'S OSAMA BIN LADEN UNIT SAYS THE QAEDA LEADER HAS SECURED RELIGIOUS APPROVAL TO USE A NUCLEAR BOMB AGAINST AMERICANS
Fri Nov 12 2004 12:02:34 ET

Osama bin Laden now has religious approval to use a nuclear device against Americans, says the former head of the CIA unit charged with tracking down the Saudi terrorist. The former agent, Michael Scheuer, speaks to Steve Kroft in his first television interview without disguise to be broadcast on 60 MINUTES Sunday, Nov. 14 (7:00-8:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.

Scheuer was until recently known as the "anonymous" author of two books critical of the West's response to bin Laden and al Qaeda, the most recent of which is titled Imperial Hubris: Why the West is Losing the War on Terror. No one in the West knows more about the Qaeda leader than Scheuer, who has tracked him since the mid-1980s. The CIA allowed him to write the books provided he remain anonymous, but now is allowing him to reveal himself for the first time on Sunday's broadcast; he formally leaves the Agency today (12).

Even if bin Laden had a nuclear weapon, he probably wouldn't have used it for a lack of proper religious authority - authority he has now. "[Bin Laden] secured from a Saudi sheik...a rather long treatise on the possibility of using nuclear weapons against the Americans," says Scheuer. "[The treatise] found that he was perfectly within his rights to use them. Muslims argue that the United States is responsible for millions of dead Muslims around the world, so reciprocity would mean you could kill millions of Americans," Scheuer tells Kroft.

Scheuer says bin Laden was criticized by some Muslims for the 9/11 attack because he killed so many people without enough warning and before offering to help convert them to Islam. But now bin Laden has addressed the American people and given fair warning. "They're intention is to end the war as soon as they can and to ratchet up the pain for the Americans until we get out of their region....If they acquire the weapon, they will use it, whether it's chemical, biological or some sort of nuclear weapon," says Scheuer.

As the head of the CIA unit charged with tracking bin Laden from 1996 to 1999, Scheuer says he never had enough people to do the job right. He blames former CIA Director George Tenet. "One of the questions that should have been asked of Mr. Tenet was why were there always enough people for the public relations office, for the academic outreach office, for the diversity and multi-cultural office? All those things are admirable and necessary but none of them are protecting the American people from a foreign threat," says Scheuer.

And the threat posed by bin Laden is also underestimated, says Scheuer. "I think our leaders over the last decade have done the American people a disservice...continuing to characterize Osama bin Laden as a thug, as a gangster," he says. "Until we respect him, sir, we are going to die in numbers that are probably unnecessary, yes. He's a very, very talented man and a very worthy opponent," he tells Kroft.

Until today (12), Scheuer was a senior official in the CIA's counter terrorism unit and a special advisor to the head of the agency's bin Laden unit.

Developing...

BTW did anyone catch this on 60 Minutes?? I don't watch CBS BS any longer!!!!

Hog
adroomi
21 years ago
I've had friends taken at the hands of followers of Jesus......but I don't want to kill Christians because of it.

How many of you have ever been at the receiving end of a laser guided missle. I know of a few gradeschoolers that have.

Fight the war, kill the enemy, destroy the bad ones, but please don't do the same to the good ones. There are some out there.

Keep the war real.....a fight against terrorism. Please don't turn it into a religious fight against non-Christians.
Da Chief
21 years ago
Sun Tzu once said...you must know your enemy to defeat him.

The Holy Jihad or Holy War is just that. A war brought on by RADICAL MUSLIMS not true Muslims. These are the muslims that believe the infidels must leave the holy land and be done by force if need be. True muslims are a peaceful people just as christian, protestants, catholics, etc.

This is plain and simple if you are Muslim and you believe and support the Holy Jihad you are my enemy. I know your tactics, techniques, and procedures that you use to try to kill me, my family, my friends, my fellow americans, and the innocent. I know of the many ways you try to hide roadside bombs. I know how you set up roadside ambushes, how you penetrate airport security to gather intel on your next fly bomb takeover. I know how you brainwash young men and women into wearing a 45 pound vest laden with explosives, ball-bearing, nuts, bolt, nails and walk into an open air market and pull the det cord. I know how you fill a car full of explosives and drive it next to a open air market, a bus, a military convoy, or a police station and detonate it. I know how you kidnap innocent people and use them to put fear in people those who watch in the effort to get countries to leave. If they don't comply you behead them because you believe that the soul cannot go to heaven if it is not whole. And you do all of this in the name of Allah who will promise you a place in heaven for killing the infidel.

Well I am here to tell all who are listening. You need to know more about what goes on in current events of this Holy Jihad, and the past of Bin Laden.

During the Iran-Contra hearing LtCol North was asked by the hearing commission as to the reasoning why he had spent 15,000 dollars on a home security system.

His answer was thet he was in fear for his life and the life of his family. The commission asked what person strikes such fear in you? His response..Osama Bin Laden. The commission then question as to what should be done. LtCol North responded that we should assasinate him. If we would have done that 15 years ago we would not have the problems we have today with terrorism. The reason he was not takeout was due to a president signing a bill that made state-sanctioned assasination illegal. After 9-11 Sec of State-Colin Powell recommended to President Bush to reinstate this.

Liberals can believe what they want to believe but I know what I know. I am a Antiterrorism Subject Matter Expert, E-9, Security Forces Manager.

I also agree we must keep an open mind. For you cannot even fathum the ways terrorist have plotted to blow up airliners, troops, or anyone in their way. If you for one moment think they are not here in the good old USA you have another thing coming.

I know my enemy and I will kill him if he gets in my way of freedom.

That is all! Smok'em if you gottem!
Wyteyes
21 years ago
OTLS (on the lighter side) I bet he changes the dates on the milk bottles, too. John
Homebrew
21 years ago
I have friends, who are Muslim. They live, work, and pay taxes. They are also American citizens. To blame the religion for the acts of a few extremeists, is akin to blaming the whole Christian religion for the murder of abortion clinic employees, by one extremist.
The cultural and religous hatred esposed by the poster, puts him on no higher ground than the Imans who are calling for their Holy War.
R6_80922 wrote,
"The commission asked what person strikes such fear in you? His response..Osama Bin Laden. The commission then question as to what should be done. LtCol North responded that we should assasinate him." I agree that this was the right thing to do, but he continues with, "If we would have done that 15 years ago we would not have the problems we have today with terrorism." Shoulda Coulda Woulda, this is flawed thinking. If we had killed bin laden, another would have risen to take his place. Anyone know what happened to the mastermind of the terrorists attack on the 1972 Olympics?????? Hmmmm, didn't he just die, after becoming the Palestinian leader for several years. He should have been assassinated, but he was able to become a legitimate leader of his people. I would hope that this will not happen with Osama, but if we sink to his level, by blaming the whole religion for the extremeists actions, it will probably happen, 20 years down the road. I agree, we need to hunt down the terrorists, and shoot them down like the dogs they are, but indicting the whole religion, will turn the peaceful Muslims into extremists, and help the recruiting efforts of the extremists.
There, that's all I care to rant on this subject.
R6_80922,
Go somewhere else to spout your religious hatred. This is America, we are the melting pot of the world. This means that not all Americans think, act, or pray the same way. But that is no reason to hate them.
Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)
RagingMark
21 years ago
For what it worth here is an email I sent and it's respnose by the author of an article that was being emailed around awhile back. You have to research and question everything yourself.

Mark "RagingMark" Rose



Dear Mr Rose
Thank you for your massage.
This is a lecture which I gave once. It was transcribed and put on the web by I do not
know who. I am not sorry.
As to Dar al-ahd, this is not a term used by the Muslim Jurists, it was created ad hoc
at the time. Islam basically recognizes either Muslims or dhimmis. Those who come
from outside the Islamic territories (namely from Dar al-Harb and as such the object
of Jihad) are Harbies.

All the best

M. Sharon
---------- Original Message ----------

-Prof. Sharon,
-I am not sure if this is your article but if it is, in reading it arcticle I
-noticed it was missing the term dar al-Ahd. I was wondering what your
-thoughts on this was?

-The term dar al-Ahd (Arabic: house of treaty or house of truce) was invented
-to describe the Ottoman Empire -wiki/Ottoman_Empire-'s relationship with
-its Christian tributary -wiki/Tributary- states. The invention of a new
-term was necessary, as the worldview prevalent at the time did not allow for
-a protacted peace with non-Muslim states, even those under Muslim
-domination. See dar al-Harb -wiki/Dar_al-Harb-, dar al-Islam
--/wiki/Dar_al-Islam-.
-Today, the term refers to those non-Muslim governments which have armistice
-or peace agreements with Muslim governments. (The actual status of the
-non-Muslim country in question may vary from acknowledged equality to
-tributary -/wiki/Tributary- or puppet state -/wiki/Puppet_state-.)


-"THE AGENDA OF ISLAM - A WAR BETWEEN CIVILIZATIONS
-by Professor Moshe Sharon

-There is no Fundamental Islam

-"Fundamentalism" is a word that came from the heart of the Christian
-religion. It means faith that goes by the word of the Bible. Fundamental
-Christianity, or going with the Bible, does not mean going around and
-killing people. There is no fundamental Islam. There is only Islam full
-stop. The question is how the Koran is interpreted.

-All of a sudden we see that the greatest interpreters of Islam are
-politicians in the western world. They know better than all the speakers in
-the mosques, all those who deliver terrible sermons against anything that is
-either Christian or Jewish. These western politicians know that there is
-good Islam and bad Islam. They know even how to differentiate between the
-two, except that none of them know how to read a word of Arabic.

-The Language of Islam
-You see, so much is covered by politically correct language that, in fact,
-the truth has been lost. For example, when we speak about Islam in the west,
-we try to use our own language and terminology. We speak about Islam in
-terms of democracy and fundamentalism, in terms of parliamentarism and all
-kinds of terms, which we take from our own dictionary. One of my professors
-and one of the greatest orientalists in the world says that doing this is
-like a cricket reporter describing a cricket game in baseball terms. We
-cannot use for one
-culture or civilization the language of another. For Islam, you've got to
-use the language of Islam.

-Driving Principles of Islam
-Let me explain the principles that are driving the religion of Islam. Of
-course, every Moslem has to acknowledge the fact that there is only one God.
-But it's not enough to say that there is only one God. A Moslem has to
-acknowledge the fact that there is one God and Mohammed is his prophet.
-These are the fundamentals of the religion that without them, one cannot be
-a Moslem. But beyond that, Islam is a civilization. It is a religion that
-gave
-first and foremost a wide and unique legal system that engulfs the
-individual, society and nations with rules of behaviour. If you are Moslem,
-you have to behave according to the rules of Islam which are set down in the
-Koran and which are very different than the teachings of the Bible.

-The Bible
-Let me explain the difference. The Bible is the creation of the spirit of a
-nation over a very, very long period, if we talk from the point of view of
-the scholar, and let me remain scholarly. But there is one thing that is
-important in the Bible. It leads to salvation. It leads to salvation in two
-ways. In Judaism, it leads to national salvation - not just a nation that
-wants to have a state, but a nation that wants to serve God. That's the idea
-behind the Hebrew text of the Bible.
-The New Testament that took the Hebrew Bible moves us toward personal
-salvation. So we have got these two kinds of salvation, which, from time to
-time, meet each other. But the key word is salvation. Personal salvation
-means that each individual is looked after by God, Himself, who leads a
-person through His word to salvation. This is the idea in the Bible, whether
-we are talking about the Old or the New Testament. All of the laws in the
-Bible, even to the minutest ones, are, in fact directed toward this fact of
-salvation.
-Secondly, there is another point in the Bible, which is highly important.
-This is the idea that man was created in the image of God. Therefore, you
-don't just walk around and obliterate the image of God. Many people, of
-course, used Biblical rules and turned them upside down. History has seen a
-lot of massacres in the name of God and in the name of Jesus. But as
-religions, both Judaism and Christianity in their fundamentals speak about
-honouring the image of God and the hope of salvation. These are the two
-basic fundamentals.

-The Essence of Islam
-Now let's move to the essence of Islam. Islam was born with the idea that it
-should rule the world. Let's look, then, at the difference between these
-three religions. Judaism speaks about national salvation - namely that at
-the end of the story, when the world becomes a better place, Israel will be
-in its own land, ruled by its own king and serving God. Christianity speaks
-about the idea that every single person in the world can be saved from his
-sins, while Islam speaks about ruling the world. I can quote here in Arabic,
-but there is
-no point in quoting Arabic, so let me quote a verse in English. "Allah sent
-Mohammed with the true religion so that it should rule over all the
-religions."
-The idea, then, is not that the whole world would become a Moslem world at
-this time, but that the whole world would be subdued under the rule of
-Islam.

-When the Islamic empire was established in 634 AD, within seven years - 640
--the core of the empire was created. The rules that were taken from the
-Koran and from the tradition that was ascribed to the prophet Mohammed, were
-translated into a real legal system. Jews and Christians could live under
-Islam provided they paid poll tax and accepted Islamic superiority. Of
-course, they had to be humiliated. And Jews and Christians living under
-Islam are humiliated to this very day.
-Mohammed Held That All the Biblical Prophets Were Moslems. Mohammed did
-accept the existence of all the Biblical prophets before him. However he
-also said that all these prophets were Moslems. Abraham was a Moslem. In
-fact, Adam himself was the first Moslem. Isaac and Jacob and David and
-Solomon and Moses and Jesus were all Moslems, and all of them had writings
-similar to the Koran. Therefore, world history is Islamic history because
-all the heroes of history were Moslems.

-Furthermore, Moslems accept the fact that each of these prophets brought
-with him some kind of a revelation. Moses, brought the Taurat, which is the
-Torah, and Jesus brought the Ingeel, which is the Evangelion or Gospel -
-namely the New Testament.
-The Bible versus the Koran
-Why then is the Bible not similar to the Koran? Mohammed explains that the
-Jews and Christians forged their books. Had they not been changed and
-forged, they would have been identical to the Koran. But because Christians
-and Jews do have some truth, Islam concedes that they cannot be completely
-destroyed by war [for now]. Nevertheless, the laws are very clear - Jews and
-Christians have no rights whatsoever to independent existence. They can live
-under Islamic rule provided they keep to the rules that Islam promulgates
-for them.
-Islamic Rule and Jihad
-What happens if Jews and Christians don't want to live under the rules of
-Islam? Then Islam has to fight them and this fighting is called Jihad. Jihad
-means war against those people who don't want to accept the Islamic superior
-rule. That's jihad. They may be Jews; they may be Christians; they may be
-Polytheists. But since we don't have too many Polytheists left, at least not
-in the Middle East - their war is against the Jews and Christians.

-A few days ago, I received a pamphlet that was distributed in the world by
-bin Laden. He calls for jihad against America as the leader of the Christian
-world, not because America is the supporter of Israel, but because Americans
-are desecrating Arabia with their filthy feet. There are Americans in Arabia
-where no Christians should be. In this pamphlet there is not a single word
-about Israel. Only that Americans are desecrating the home of the prophet.

-Two Houses
-The Koran sees the world as divided into two - one part which has come under
-Islamic rule and one part which is supposed to come under Islamic rule in
-the future. There is a division of the world which is very clear. Every
-single person who starts studying Islam knows it. The world is described as
-Dar al-Islam (the house of Islam) - that's the place where Islam rules - and
-the other part which is called Dar al-Harb - the house of war. Not the
-"house of
-non-Muslims," but the "house of war." It is this house of war which has to
-be, at the end of time, conquered. The world will continue to be in the
-house of war until it comes under Islamic rule. This is the norm. Why?
-Because Allah says it's so in the Koran. God has sent Mohammed with the true
-religion in order that the truth will overcome all other religions.

-Islamic Law
-Within the Islamic vision of this world, there are rules that govern the
-lives of the Moslems themselves, and these rules are very strict. In
-fundamentals, there are no differences between schools of law. However,
-there are four streams of factions within Islam with
-differences between them concerning the minutiae of the laws. All over the
-Islamic world,
-countries have favored one or another of these schools of laws. The
-strictest school of law is called Hanbali, mainly coming out of Saudi
-Arabia. There are no games there, no playing around with the meanings of
-words. If the Koran speaks about war, then it's war. There are various
-perspectives in Islam with different interpretations over the centuries.
-There were good people that were very enlightened in Islam that tried to
-understand things differently. They even brought traditions from the mouth
-of the prophet that women and children should not be killed in war.
-These more liberal streams do exist, but there is one thing that is very
-important for us to remember. The Hanbali school of law is extremely strict,
-and today this is the school that is behind most of the terrorist powers.
-Even if we talk about the existence of other schools of Islamic law, when
-we're talking about fighting against the Jews, or fighting against the
-Christian world led by America, it is the Hanbali school of law that is
-being followed.
-Islam and Territory
-This civilization created one very important, fundamental rule about
-territory. Any territory that comes under Islamic rule cannot be
-de-Islamized. Even if at one time or another, the [non-Moslem] enemy takes
-over the territory that was under Islamic rule, it is considered to be
-perpetually Islamic. This is why whenever you hear about the Arab/Israeli
-conflict, you
-hear - territory, territory, territory. There are other aspects to the
-conflict, but territory is highly important.
-The Christian civilization has not only been seen as a religious opponent,
-but as a dam stopping Islam from achieving its final goal for which it was
-created. Islam was created to be the army of God, the army of Allah. Every
-single Moslem is a soldier in this army. Every single Moslem that dies in
-fighting for the spread of Islam is a shaheed (martyr) no matter how he
-dies, because -and this is very important - this is an eternal war between
-the two
-civilizations. It's not a war that stops. This war is there because it was
-created by Allah.
-Islam must be the ruler. This is a war that will not end.
-Islam and Peace
-Peace in Islam can exist only within the Islamic world; peace can only be
-between Moslem and Moslem. With the non-Moslem world or non-Moslem
-opponents, there can be only one
-solution - a cease fire until Moslems can gain more power. It is an eternal
-war until the end of days. Peace can only come if the Islamic side wins. The
-two civilizations can only have periods of cease-fires. And this idea of
-cease-fire is based on a very important historical precedent, which,
-incidentally, Yasser Arafat referred to when he spoke in Johannesburg after
-he signed the Oslo agreement with Israel.

-Let me remind you that the document speaks of peace - you wouldn't believe
-that you are reading! You would think that you were reading some science
-fiction piece. I mean when you read it, you can't believe that this was
-signed by Israelis who are actually acquainted with Islamic policies and
-civilization.

-A few weeks after the Oslo agreement was signed, Arafat went to
-Johannesburg, and in a mosque there he made a speech in which he apologized,
-saying, "Do you think I signed something with the Jews which is contrary to
-the rules of Islam?" (I have obtained a copy of Arafat's recorded speech so
-I heard it from his own mouth.) Arafat continued, "That's not so. I'm doing
-exactly what the prophet Mohammed did."

-Whatever the prophet is supposed have done becomes a precedent. What Arafat
-was saying was, "Remember the story of Hodaybiya." The prophet had made an
-agreement there with the tribe of Kuraish for 10 years. But then he trained
-10,000 soldiers and within two years marched on their city of Mecca. He, of
-course, found some kind of pretext. Thus, in Islamic jurisdiction, it became
-a legal precedent which states that you are only allowed to make peace for a
-maximum of 10 years. Secondly, at the first instance that you are able, you
-must renew the jihad [thus breaking the "peace" agreement].
-In Israel, it has taken over 50 years in this country for our people to
-understand that they cannot speak about [permanent] peace with Moslems. It
-will take another 50 years for the western world to understand that they
-have got a state of war with the Islamic civilization that is virile and
-strong. This should be understood: When we talk about war and peace, we are
-not talking in Belgium, French, English, or German terms. We are talking
-about war and peace in Islamic terms.

-Cease-fire as a Tactical Choice
-What makes Islam accept cease-fire? Only one thing - when the enemy is too
-strong. It is a tactical choice. Sometimes, he may have to agree to a
-cease-fire in the most humiliating
-conditions. It's allowed because Mohammed accepted a cease-fire under
-humiliating conditions. That's what Arafat said to them in Johannesburg.
-When western policy makers hear these things, they answer, "What are you
-talking about? You are in the Middle Ages. You don't understand the
-mechanisms of politics." Which mechanisms of politics? There are no
-mechanisms of politics where power is. And I want to tell you one thing - we
-haven't seen the end of it, because the minute a radical Moslem power has
-atomic, chemical or biological weapons, they will use it. I have no doubt
-about that.

-Now, since we face war and we know that we cannot get more than an
-impermanent
-cease-fire, one has to ask himself what is the major component of an
-Israeli/Arab cease-fire. It is that the Islamic side is weak and your side
-is strong. The relations between Israel and the Arab world in the last 50
-years since the establishment of our State has been based only on this idea,
-the deterrent power.

-Wherever You Have Islam, You Will Have War
-The reason that we have what we have in Yugoslavia and other places is
-because Islam succeeded into entering these countries. Wherever you have
-Islam, you will have war. It grows out of the attitude of Islamic
-civilization.

-What are the poor people in the Philippines being killed for? What's
-happening between Pakistan and India?
-Islamic Infiltration

-Furthermore, there is another fact that must be remembered. The Islamic
-world has not only the attitude of open war, but there's also war by
-infiltration. One of the things which the western world is not paying enough
-attention to is the tremendous growth of Islamic power in the western world.
-What happened in America and the Twin Towers is not something that came from
-the outside. And if America doesn't wake up, one day the Americans will find
-themselves in a chemical war and most likely in an atomic war - inside the
-U.S.

-End of Days
-It is highly important to understand how a civilization sees the end of
-days. In Christianity and in Judaism, we know exactly what is the vision of
-the end of days. In Judaism, it is going to be as in Isaiah - peace between
-nations, not just one nation, but between all nations. People will not have
-any more need for weapons and nature will be changed - a beautiful end of
-days and the kingdom of God on earth.
-Christianity goes as far as Revelation to see a day that Satan himself is
-obliterated. There are no more powers of evil. That's the vision. I'm
-speaking now as a historian. I try to understand how Islam sees the end of
-days. In the end of days, Islam sees a world that is totally Moslem,
-completely Moslem under the rule of Islam. Complete and final victory.
-Christians will not exist, because according to many Islamic traditions, the
-Moslems who are in hell will have to be replaced by somebody and they'll be
-replaced by the Christians.
-The Jews will no longer exist, because before the coming of the end of days,
-there is going to be a war against the Jews where all Jews should be killed.
-I'm quoting now from the heart of Islamic tradition, from the books that are
-read by every child in school. The Jews will all be killed. They'll be
-running away and they'll be hiding behind trees and rocks, and on that day
-Allah will give mouths to the rocks and trees and they will say, "Oh Moslem
-come here, there is a Jew behind me, kill him." Without this, the end of
-days cannot come. This is a fundamental of Islam.
-Is There a Possibility to End This Dance of War?
-The question which we in Israel are asking ourselves is what will happen to
-our country? Is there a possibility to end this dance of war? The answer is,
-"No. Not in the foreseeable future." What we can do is reach a situation
-where for a few years we may have relative quiet. But for Islam, the
-establishment of the state of Israel was a reverse of Islamic history.
-First, Islamic territory was taken away from Islam by Jews. You know by now
-that this can never be accepted, not even one meter. So everyone who thinks
-Tel Aviv is safe is making a grave mistake.
-Territory, which at one time was dominated by Islamic rule, now has become
-non-Moslem.
-Non-Moslems are independent of Islamic rule; Jews have created their own
-independent state. It is anathema. And (this is the worst) Israel, a
-non-Moslem state, is ruling over
-Moslems. It is unthinkable that non-Moslems should rule over Moslems. I
-believe that Western civilization should hold together and support each
-other. Whether this will happen or not, I don't know. Israel finds itself on
-the front lines of this war. It needs the help of its sister civilization.
-It needs the help of America and Europe. It needs the help of the Christian
-world. One thing I am sure about, this help can be given by individual
-Christians
-who see this as the road to salvation.






usahog
21 years ago
RagingMark, Thanks for posting.. very good read!!!

Hog
BLISTER
21 years ago
R6 80922,

You better get your sh*t together. That Oliver North testimony is erroneous. North was not talking about Osama Bin Laden, he was talking about Abu Nidal.

You can't believe everything you read on the internet.

Here's a link:

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/north.htm 
tailgater
21 years ago
I think we can all agree that the majority of people within any and all major religions are inherently GOOD.

The problem I see with with the radical Muslims is that they kill in the name of their god. And they've got the documents to back them up. Quite convincingly, too.

When people are felled by Christians, as Adroomi so "astutely" pointed out, it is not generally done in the name of God.
And on the rare modern occassions that it is claimed to be in the name of God (such as killing an abortion doctor), the culprit is not part of some large factor within the religion, but rather a lunatic who would have killed in the name of his pet had he no higher entitity to blame.

That's a HUGE difference.

But it still doesn't make all, or even most Muslims evil. I believe they are not.

But would it kill them to be more vocal about these radical groups?
Why can't they, as the largest organized religion in the world, stand up and denounce these interpretations of the Quran as incorrect and evil?

They cry louder about being stereotyped than they do about against the radical thugs.

usahog
21 years ago
TG, DMV answered this with a post of the latest news clip on Iran....
"Why can't they, as the largest organized religion in the world, stand up and denounce these interpretations of the Quran as incorrect and evil?"

Also Ragingmark's post has very good information on why they do not denounce the quran as being incorrect...

Hog
Da Chief
21 years ago
HomeBrew...Open your eyes and read my post again.

I am not spouting religious hatered you old coot! My first paragraph stated..

The Holy Jihad or Holy War is just that. A war brought on by RADICAL MUSLIMS not true Muslims. These are the muslims that believe the infidels must leave the holy land and be done by force if need be. True muslims are a peaceful people just as christian, protestants, catholics, etc.

As for the Osama Bin Laden quote..it was not from the internet.

To all who read my previous post it was nto to spout religious hatered. I may just voicing my opiion about The Holy Jihad. And how the actions of few R-A-D-I-C-A-L Muslims are K-I-L-L-I-N-G innocent people for the cause. That is my main point.

That is all. Smok'em if you got them.
Da Chief
21 years ago
HomeBrew...Open your eyes and read my post again.

I am not spouting religious hatered you old coot! My first paragraph stated..

The Holy Jihad or Holy War is just that. A war brought on by RADICAL MUSLIMS not true Muslims. These are the muslims that believe the infidels must leave the holy land and be done by force if need be. True muslims are a peaceful people just as christian, protestants, catholics, etc.

As for the Osama Bin Laden quote..it was not from the internet.

To all who read my previous post it was nto to spout religious hatered. I may just voicing my opiion about The Holy Jihad. And how the actions of few R-A-D-I-C-A-L Muslims are K-I-L-L-I-N-G innocent people for the cause. That is my main point.

That is all. Smok'em if you got them.
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