DrafterX
14 years ago

I guess I crucified them. My apologies.

HockeyDad wrote:





Bassard..!! 😠
HockeyDad
14 years ago
I just saw the Iranian TV pictures of the US spy drone that was "shot down". It looks just like a baby B-2. I assume that Iranian, Chinese, and Russian radar specialists are already running tests against it to develop its radar signature and exactly how to spot something like a B-2 or a F-117.

That could result in more equipment loss during the upcoming war and as a result an upward revision to revenue forecasts for US military industrial complex companies.
ZRX1200
14 years ago
And it raises anti Iran sentiments.


Win win for the MIC.
rfenst
14 years ago

Iran must be stopped.

Signed: US military-industrial complex and the American Israel Public Affairs Committee.

HockeyDad wrote:



In other words, nothing bad comes or is coming from Iran; and the U.S. MIC, Christian Right and all-too-powerful Jewsih-Israel lobbies are leading the U.S. into yet another war because American jews have too much influence and are leading the way, right?
rfenst
14 years ago

Keep it real simple......

Should the USA go to war with Iran?

HockeyDad wrote:



No. Not as of the present time.

Should Israel?
HockeyDad
14 years ago

In other words, nothing bad comes or is coming from Iran; and the U.S. MIC, Christian Right and all-too-powerful Jewsih-Israel lobbies are leading the U.S. into yet another war because American jews have too much influence and are leading the way, right?

rfenst wrote:




If something bad comes or is coming from Iran, that sounds like we should go to war! You might already be more bought in than you realize.

If you look back at Iran since the late 1980s and their war with Iraq, you'll notice that their rise to power and pain-in-the-ass status in the middle east has been through not firing a shot.

Iraq invades Kuwait. Iran sits it out.
USA invades Iraq. Iran sits it out.
USA invades Iraq part 2. Iran sits it out.
USA invades Afghanistan. Iran sits it out.
Israel's various wars with Lebanon. Iran sits it out.
Arab Spring. Iran sits it out.

Now we all expect Iran is going to start something and they need to be pre-emptively attacked!
HockeyDad
14 years ago

No. Not as of the present time.

Should Israel?

rfenst wrote:




This poses a quandary. You and Frank both don't think the USA should go to war with Iran.....yet. How does the situation on the ground need to change to get you to change your minds?



Now should Israel go to war with Iran.....Israel is torn on this. Israeli military leaders have already said that their airstrike capability at best would delay the Iranian nuclear program by two years if Iran really is developing a bomb. Airstrikes would pretty much assure that they would then develop a bomb.

Part 2 of the equation is figuring out just exactly what military capability Iran actually has that could reach or hurt Israel. I'm guessing not a lot of posters here could list the Iranian weapons systems that could even hit Israel without a little Google help.

I wonder if Israel could do this war without asking for a handout from US taxpayers.

bloody spaniard
14 years ago
Sorry to interrupt your one man, possibly caffeine- fueled, theater of the mind....

There is absolutely no way I'm going to invest contrary to the Evangelicals & Israel. No way! I'm going to be right there standing next to you guys. (Actually standing behind you! Charge!)

HockeyDad wrote:





I don't know why, but your post evoked the image of a cross between Sergeant Shultz/Col. Klink/Ensign Pulver wearing a beret of course.
teedubbya
14 years ago
meh. more than once Israel has not done what they wanted to do do because we told them not to. They don't tell us what to do and when. Our politics do heavily support them but that's on us not them. We'll toss them aside when it no longer suits us like we do with most of our allies. We are not a reliable partner. Our forien policy can change on an election.

I don't think we should go to war. I'm with HD. I say distance ourselves a bit from Israel but that also means quit restraining them and let them do as they see fit. (while selling to both sides.... its the American way)

The way I figure it I don't have many years left on this earth. We may as well make it entertaining.
HockeyDad
14 years ago

Sorry to interrupt your one man, possibly caffeine- fueled, theater of the mind....

bloody spaniard wrote:




Now come on, I told you that you were going to get your war and I will fully support you sending your kids to fight in it. Be happy!
bloody spaniard
14 years ago

Now come on, I told you that you were going to get your war and I will fully support you sending your kids to fight in it. Be happy!

HockeyDad wrote:




LOL- you should be happy as well with the killing you'll make predicting oil price hikes.


HD, it does the heart good to see a resurgence of the dusty, ole Maginot Line defense. There's French logic for you.
What was it the Germans did? Oh yes, they went AROUND it... and with our strong, non-porous borders...

No, I'm not for conventional war with Iran nor with North Korea for that matter. That's why things go boom in the night.
Gene363
14 years ago

I'm sure you are fully aware that there are entire organizations whose purpose is to seek out and call out anti-semitism worldwide. Perhaps you're aware of a recent case.....

HockeyDad wrote:




And HD is pissed because it infringes on the French notion that Frenchmen are the sole patent/copyright owners of 'righteous indignation.' [horse]
HockeyDad
14 years ago

LOL- you should be happy as well with the killing you'll make predicting oil price hikes.

bloody spaniard wrote:




That is the beauty of it. It doesn't matter if it is the USA starting the war with Iran or Israel starting the war with Iran. Oil price hikes will be coming either way! With the USA, it is pretty easy to monitor the drum beats of war and time it right. With Netanyahoo in Israel.....well he's a bit of a Haredi-ultra nationalist wild card. I think he'll wait for a Republican President to be elected in 2012. If Obama wins re-election as I expect, I'll be buying oil heavily the next day. (Now you know my timeline!)



HockeyDad
14 years ago

No, I'm not for conventional war with Iran nor with North Korea for that matter. That's why things go boom in the night.

bloody spaniard wrote:




I haven't kept precise count but I don't think I got a single one of you to vote for war with Iran yet. That is why we have to utilize the drum beats of war. You'll come around all in due time. All in due time.
HockeyDad
14 years ago

And HD is pissed because it infringes on the French notion that Frenchmen are the sole patent/copyright owners of 'righteous indignation.' [horse]

Gene363 wrote:




The French invented democracy, existentialism, the Ménage à Trois, righteous indignation, and scornful indifference. You only get to use these things under license.

Hakuna Matata Bitches!
bloody spaniard
14 years ago
Had to google your "hakuna matata". Wasn't sure if that was a George Allen macaca type slur or not.


You never disappoint, Tom.
Although the mere mention of "Israel" appears to spark a Niagara-like reaction from you (see vaudeville routine based on pretend rage at mention of said word).
🤤
HockeyDad
14 years ago
I think Israel is the only issue on the forum where I am 98.2% against the lockstep majority. If they threw that bum Netanyahoo out and brought the "left" back into the government and tempered the ultra-nationalist movement, I could come back on board. Right now Israel is on the fast track to fascism.

Many nations are starting to struggle to hitch their wagons to the Israeli horse right now. The USA should be one of them but is not.


Don't even get me started on Niagara. The Canadian side of the falls is far nicer and that in itself is enough reason for the USA to invade.
dubleuhb
14 years ago


Don't even get me started on Niagara. The Canadian side of the falls is far nicer and that in itself is enough reason for the USA to invade.

HockeyDad wrote:


I agree, living only 20 miles from the falls and work takes me into the city every week. NF USA is a fricken cesspool.
frankj1
14 years ago

I'm sure you are fully aware that there are entire organizations whose purpose is to seek out and call out anti-semitism worldwide. Perhaps you're aware of a recent case.....



“throughout the Muslim communities that I visit, and indeed throughout Europe, there is significant anger and resentment and, yes, perhaps sometimes hatred and indeed sometimes and all too growing intimidation and violence directed at Jews generally as a result of the continuing tensions between Israel and the Palestinian territories and other Arab neighbors in the Middle East…every new settlement announced in Israel, every rocket shot over a border or suicide bomber on a bus, and every retaliatory military strike exacerbates the problem and provides a setback here in Europe for those fighting hatred and bigotry here in Europe.” ~ Howard Gutman, US Ambassador to Belgium

I suppose you've heard of the firestorm around those comments?

HockeyDad wrote:


This is very interesting in the way reactions have been reported. Gutman does not speak for all of Judaism any more than I do. And not everyone agrees with the theory he espoused that there are 2 kinds of antisemitism, traditional hatred vs political. Interesting also is that you pick a memeber of Obama's team with whom to align yourself as a victim. Strange bedfellows.

You have called me a right wing conservative because I support Israel, and you mock the Obama/liberal regime too. Yet you liken yourself to Gutman when I asked for examples of you personally being called antisemitic due to your antiIsrael rantings. I am hardly a right wing exteremist and you are hardly a supporter of Obama...and I still have not seen anyone, including me, accuse you personally of being antisemitic. But Gutman is under attack and you seem to be saying you are in his camp. Really? That just happened. When were you attacked before this episode? How many more times can I say I disagree with your stance on Israel but do not believe you hate Jews?

There is another belief that states that antisemitic revisionists need to prove that the Nazi attempt to exterminate Jews is a fable, never happened, in order to then declare Israel an illegal state. The current champion of this ugly school of thought is the Iranian spokesman. Is there any doubt he is a Jew Hater of the first degree? And sadly there are Jewish apologists that accept blame for creating neuveau-political-antisemitism as a result of Israel's aggresiveness. They believe in the 2 types theory. Gutman verbalized it. But he is incorrect. Blaming the victim for being hated is BS. Antisemetism is antisemitism. And placating one's enemy does not deter them.

Now, as an American, I can easily accept anyone's argument that they do not want American dollars used to support foreign governments. That is a totally different discussion. But if a war starts with Iran, Iran will have earned it. Their leader has been unambiguous in his desire to wipe out Israel. And you say that Israel has caused fear in other countries with their superior military capability...yet there has never been an utterance about Israel's dream to wipe out any nation, about taking over the middle east, even though they could have done so many times in the past. Evidently their defense is really for defense, not offense. And it has been working.

Try to tell us that Israel woud still exist without their military prowess. Yet the poor weaklings surrounding them are still on the map too. By your thought process, this is oxymoronic.

I would love to see you hold any country that wants to erase Israel from the map to the same impossible standards you demand from Israel. Why are they exempt from your wrath? We armed Iran AND Iraq for chrissakes! Egypt received tons of aid. Yet you remain silent when it comes to the worst nations on Earth. No harsh words for Imadinnerjacket? He cool with you? Forget war, is he cool with you?
jackconrad
14 years ago
The Spanish Inquisition !
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