Pheloniousmunk
14 years ago

Why? The employees have as much, if not more, stake in the companies success than anyone else. Everyone seems to look at union members as being good-for-nothing, useless, pieces of crap. They are Americans...just like you or I. I've known many many many hard working intelligent people who are members of a union. I am NOT a union supporter but I am a supporter of my fellow Americans and of American jobs. Given a stake in their own futures will only help the union to bolster GM's future business. Not drag it down as in years past. I just don't get where some of you guys are coming from other than drinking the Fox News, Koch Bros. union hater-aid. I've always considered unions to be counter-productive and out of date with the times but with the current extreme anti-labor ideologies currently in vogue in this country, unions are needed more now than at any time since the 1920's.

or maybe you'd rather have China building your Chevy's and GMC's. I sure as hell don't. If we lose the auto industry, we are fuqed.

JadeRose wrote:


JadeRose, You seem to be totally disregarding my comment that I felt it important to save GM and all of it's tentacles, which employ real people just like you and I. Let me attempt to explain my union perspective.

I've been union represented(because I work in a closed shop) for nearly 30 years. I won't bore you with the details unless you really want to know, but I have vast experience to base my opinion on regarding unions and their real objectives.

In the old days, before OSHA, NIOSH, MSHA, and various other governmental safety organizations, unions were often the only protection for employees being coerced into unsafe work practices for the sake of production, but that is no longer the case. You will see unions play the workplace safety card to shut down a jobsite that was perfectly acceptable prior to there being some other labor or benefit issue or unchanged before a return to work, so it's not really about safety, it's about organized labor and leverage.

Unions also had a place before common labor laws existed spelling out the length of a typical work day and what merits overtime pay, or full time employee status, etc. but that was long ago and no longer true in most cases. Collective bargaining can be a benefit, if you are just an average employee, but mostly what I've seen the union do is protect the deliberate **** ups while padding their pockets with the weekly dues of thousands of members. Unions, IMO, are about making lots of money and providing very lavish lifestyles for those at the top of the union foodchain, standing upon the backs of the working men and women. Not so different really from the Robber Barons or corporate titans of today except that unions produce nothing, they simply sell the labor of those whom they "represent". Huh......sounds like pimping when I phrase it like that........
FuzzNJ
14 years ago

Unions, IMO, are about making lots of money and providing very lavish lifestyles for those at the top of the union foodchain, standing upon the backs of the working men and women. Not so different really from the Robber Barons or corporate titans of today except that unions produce nothing, they simply sell the labor of those whom they "represent". Huh......sounds like pimping when I phrase it like that........

Pheloniousmunk wrote:



Since when is labor 'nothing'?
Pheloniousmunk
14 years ago

Since when is labor 'nothing'?

FuzzNJ wrote:


I can provide the services of MY labor whether I'm represented or not. The union in no way provides me the ability to labor, they sell MY product of labor, and they won't take care of me if I become disabled and can no longer work and pay my union dues. My ability to provide the needed labor in specific ways is everything and the union just takes a slice off the top. The union has done nothing, and continues to do nothing to make me the skilled labor asset that I am. Unless you are in a trade union and have gone through their training program, has a union ever done anything to enhance your abilities or desirability to an employer?
FuzzNJ
14 years ago

I can provide the services of MY labor whether I'm represented or not. The union in no way provides me the ability to labor, they sell MY product of labor, and they won't take care of me if I become disabled and can no longer work and pay my union dues. My ability to provide the needed labor in specific ways is everything and the union just takes a slice off the top. The union has done nothing, and continues to do nothing to make me the skilled labor asset that I am. Unless you are in a trade union and have gone through their training program, has a union ever done anything to enhance your abilities or desirability to an employer?

Pheloniousmunk wrote:




I can make and provide my own beer, clothing, wine, food, furniture etc. whether another person or company makes them or not, but I prefer not to.

Labor is like any other commodity.
DrMaddVibe
14 years ago

Unless you are in a trade union and have gone through their training program, has a union ever done anything to enhance your abilities or desirability to an employer?

Pheloniousmunk wrote:




I don't think Martha Stewart has a union so that kinda leaves Snickerdoodles twisting in the wind.
JadeRose
14 years ago

JadeRose, You seem to be totally disregarding my comment that I felt it important to save GM and all of it's tentacles, which employ real people just like you and I. Let me attempt to explain my union perspective.

I've been union represented(because I work in a closed shop) for nearly 30 years. I won't bore you with the details unless you really want to know, but I have vast experience to base my opinion on regarding unions and their real objectives.

In the old days, before OSHA, NIOSH, MSHA, and various other governmental safety organizations, unions were often the only protection for employees being coerced into unsafe work practices for the sake of production, but that is no longer the case. You will see unions play the workplace safety card to shut down a jobsite that was perfectly acceptable prior to there being some other labor or benefit issue or unchanged before a return to work, so it's not really about safety, it's about organized labor and leverage.

Unions also had a place before common labor laws existed spelling out the length of a typical work day and what merits overtime pay, or full time employee status, etc. but that was long ago and no longer true in most cases. Collective bargaining can be a benefit, if you are just an average employee, but mostly what I've seen the union do is protect the deliberate **** ups while padding their pockets with the weekly dues of thousands of members. Unions, IMO, are about making lots of money and providing very lavish lifestyles for those at the top of the union foodchain, standing upon the backs of the working men and women. Not so different really from the Robber Barons or corporate titans of today except that unions produce nothing, they simply sell the labor of those whom they "represent". Huh......sounds like pimping when I phrase it like that........

Pheloniousmunk wrote:




My thoughts about Unions are virtually identical to yours. I was in one for 15 years and hated every second of it.
wheelrite
14 years ago

My thoughts about Unions are virtually identical to yours. I was in one for 15 years and hated every second of it.

JadeRose wrote:



That was a " Civil Union" (homo marriage) you were in..
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