8.... since when do two straight guys just get beaten up? I don't think I've ever met a straight guy who has just been beaten up for no reason, with nothing said. This wasn't some stupid drunken argument that turned physical.

So, yeah, there's a chance that the attackers had no idea they were gay, and were attacking them because it's common to attack a 6' 260lb guy standing next to a 6'2 170 guy... but since there wasn't a damn thing said, and since the victims happen to know they are gay, they have to come to the conclusion that they were attacked because they are gay. If the attackers had simply said something like "how dare you wear those shoes!" or "I have to kill you because my cat said to!", then it becomes a funny story to tell over a few drinks, not something that they have to concern themselves with the rest of their lives. Part of the problem is perception.

And 8 brought up a valid point... if your friends were black or hispanic and got beat for no apparent reason would this still be a hate crime..??

Every single night in Ybor City after around 2am. Seriously, you must be from the suburbs.

Yeah... I've always lived in safe areas. Downtown Baltimore is like candyland at 2-3am... SE DC at 4am is practically a kindergarten playground.

I know how a normal fight starts. Someone says or does something stupid, someone else says or does something stupid and that keeps going until someone hits the other. I've been there.

I know how your average mugging happens, I've had plenty of friends get mugged.

You jump someone from behind when you're main goal is to hurt them as badly as possible in as short a period of time as possible. The entire "behind" part of it means that the people getting jumped didn't have an opportunity to instigate something, they don't know it's coming. To follow the logical conclusion, that means that the attackers want to hurt the people because of the way they look. Either their race, or because they "look gay" or because they're wearing a Cowboy's jersey.

8-track is in a gay bar. He decided to go because they have great drink specials, and he's a reasonably open minded guy. It's a huge bar, 3 levels and it's packed with gay people. In fact, it looks to 8 that he's the only straight guy in the bar. There are big leather clad biker gays, your skinny twinks, your otters, your gym rats, every type. They're all just minding their business, drinking chatting and generally having a normal time. After drinking a couple hours with no incidents, 8 finally needs to pee (yes, in this imagining, he doesn't need to pee every 15 minutes like normal). 8 wanders to the bathroom, pisses and comes back. On his way back to the bar, while walking through a back room, he's jumped by 3 gay guys, kicked to the ground and beaten. He's curled up on the ground, trying to protect his head and various soft spots while these three guys repeatedly kick him.

After an unknown period of time, they stop and leave him in the corner, bleeding. He gets helped up and someone calls the police, he gets treated, maybe needs some time in the hospital for some broken ribs.

8 track's assumption is going to be that he was just beaten because he was a straight guy. Odds are, he's not going to go back to that bar to drink any time soon, and if he does, he'll probably be paranoid, looking over his shoulder all the time.

The reality (in this scenario) is that those 3 guys had agreed to beat the sh^t out of the next guy to walk past them. They had no idea 8track was straight (I mean, really... who does?). But despite all this, every time 8track goes to a gay bar, he's afraid he's going to get beaten up for being the minority straight guy.

I'm pissed off, because even in the small chance that my friends were not jumped because they were gay, they still have to assume it was. And it isn't just a single bar they will be paranoid in, this was freaking yuppie-#ss georgetown they got jumped in. How can they assume they won't get jumped in any other neighborhood of DC. This will possibly change the way they live their lives for a while.

Invalid logical conclusion. You worked your way backward from your prejudiced opinion.

Welcome to the real world. It sucks when your false sense of security is broken. It will change their lives.

Provide an alternate logical conclusion then. Otherwise you're just channeling potts. 🙂

You already provided one. They got jumped because somebody was just looking to beat someone down. It happens. You have no idea why they were jumped. You just decided it was because they were gay and are waiting for Perez Hilton to lead a rally.

There is a level of security most individuals feel which varies by location/circumstance. Given any situation, if they are caused to feel less secure than me or you, then I'm going to be pissed off. You really are trying to channel potts.

.... really? What do you think the odds are that two guys would jump two other guys (one being very large, the other being tall at least) if they're just looking to beat someone down? Wouldn't they go after a lone guy? Wouldn't they select someone smaller? Honestly, what do you think the odds are between the two potential scenarios? Both are possible (not arguing), but people are going to live their life by what they think is most likely to have happened.

Oh CRACKLE!

I'm skippin' right on over SNAP!

Vic...you disappear and decide to jump in with this?

Really?

We have random attacks here, usually when gangs give new recruits the task of doing something criminal. Though honestly I don't recall it ever being two large ghey men.

You don't have to use foul language and call me JPotts just because I don't agree with your overreaching conclusion!

If they feel less secure because they are gay, they have reached the same conclusion as you and will react accordingly regardless of whether it was valid.

98.2 to 1?

You just acknowledged that both cases are possible. Reasonable doubt.......case dismissed.

He's just being flamboyant!